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  Judges  (Read 9298 times)
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Offline appel

JGO Wizard


Medals: 50
Projects: 4


I always win!


« Posted 2008-11-20 16:31:30 »

I'm putting together a judging team, and I'm in the process of asking the same judging team of '08 competition to judge again.

I am also hoping to compete myself, so I won't be judging. Hopefully nobody minds me competing?  persecutioncomplex


If you believe you're fit as a judge then contact me Smiley

Check out the 4K competition @ www.java4k.com
Check out GAMADU (my own site) @ http://gamadu.com/
Offline appel

JGO Wizard


Medals: 50
Projects: 4


I always win!


« Reply #1 - Posted 2008-11-20 16:47:30 »

Judges:

Chris Melissinos (ChrisM)
Chief Java Gaming officer at Sun Microsystems, host of the LevelUp shows.

Matt Hicks (darkfrog)
One of the developer working on the jME Engine (Java Monkey Engine).

Eli Delventhal (Demonpants)
Professional game developer with 9 years of game programming experience.

Jens Sigurdsson
Professional graphics expert, user interface designer and game enthusiast working on IPTV GUI systems at Iceland Telecom.

Mark DeLoura
Former head of Dev Relations at Sony and Nintendo, is the creator of the Game Programming Gems series of books and is an advisory board member of the Game Developers Conference.

Check out the 4K competition @ www.java4k.com
Check out GAMADU (my own site) @ http://gamadu.com/
Offline Morre

JGO Knight


Medals: 2
Projects: 10


I'm Dragonene on IRC.


« Reply #2 - Posted 2008-11-20 22:26:58 »

I don't mind having you as a participant. In fact, I encourage it! Your tank game was one of my absolute favorites last time you entered (2007, I believe?)

Games published by our own members! Check 'em out!
Legends of Yore - The Casual Retro Roguelike
Offline Eli Delventhal

JGO Kernel


Medals: 42
Projects: 11
Exp: 10 years


Game Engineer


« Reply #3 - Posted 2008-11-21 05:35:47 »

If you are in need of another judge, I'd forgo competing (although I'd still write an entry just for fun).

I'd say I'm decently qualified... I've been around the community for a while, I like to think I'm pretty helpful and knowledgeable. I've been making games for 9 years and games in Java for 5. I've been a professional game developer for 3 months. I'm 22 and I've got good English skills.

Erm. Yeah. So if you need another judge let me know.

See my work:
OTC Software
Offline appel

JGO Wizard


Medals: 50
Projects: 4


I always win!


« Reply #4 - Posted 2008-11-21 22:11:55 »

If you are in need of another judge, I'd forgo competing (although I'd still write an entry just for fun).

I'd say I'm decently qualified... I've been around the community for a while, I like to think I'm pretty helpful and knowledgeable. I've been making games for 9 years and games in Java for 5. I've been a professional game developer for 3 months. I'm 22 and I've got good English skills.

Erm. Yeah. So if you need another judge let me know.

Looks great! I think you'll make a good judge.

However, since I've been away from the community for some time now, I'm really out of touch with who's who and what Smiley And since I will be participating myself, I will request that some other members in here vouch for the new judges to ensure that judges are not biased towards me.

I believe ChrisM and darkfrog need no vouching as they were judges in the previous competition.

Check out the 4K competition @ www.java4k.com
Check out GAMADU (my own site) @ http://gamadu.com/
Offline kevglass

JGO Kernel


Medals: 163
Projects: 23
Exp: 18 years


Coder, Trainee Pixel Artist, Game Reviewer


« Reply #5 - Posted 2008-11-21 22:30:44 »

I'd be happy with Demonpants. I'll not be judging this year, I'm hoping to find time to enter.

Kev

Offline SimonH
« Reply #6 - Posted 2008-11-22 07:05:50 »

I'd be happy with Demonpants
Same here.
I'm hoping to find time to enter
Also same here.

People make games and games make people
Offline appel

JGO Wizard


Medals: 50
Projects: 4


I always win!


« Reply #7 - Posted 2008-12-05 13:41:51 »

I've added Jens Sigurdsson as a judge.

He's an expert designer working in my department at Iceland telecom.

He has shown interest in these games for some time now, but he's not a programmer.

I think it might be good to have a bit mixed judging team.



Check out the 4K competition @ www.java4k.com
Check out GAMADU (my own site) @ http://gamadu.com/
Offline Eli Delventhal

JGO Kernel


Medals: 42
Projects: 11
Exp: 10 years


Game Engineer


« Reply #8 - Posted 2008-12-05 18:46:51 »

Yeah that's certainly a good idea. People from JGO will probably spend more time being impressed with technical accomplishment, while non-programmers will probably be looking more for a fun/pretty game, which should probably give everyone a more balanced chance to excel.

See my work:
OTC Software
Offline appel

JGO Wizard


Medals: 50
Projects: 4


I always win!


« Reply #9 - Posted 2008-12-08 14:41:09 »

ChrisM was nice enough to ask one of his friend to join the judging panel.


The new judge is Mark DeLoura.

He is the former head of Dev Relations at Sony and Nintendo, is the creator of the Game Programming Gems series of books and is an advisory board member of the Game Developers Conference.

Nice to have someone with his background on the judging panel! Let's not disappoint him! Smiley


The panel is now fully manned!

Check out the 4K competition @ www.java4k.com
Check out GAMADU (my own site) @ http://gamadu.com/
Games published by our own members! Check 'em out!
Legends of Yore - The Casual Retro Roguelike
Online ChrisM

JGO Coder


Medals: 2
Projects: 1
Exp: 14 years


Luke...END OF LINE


« Reply #10 - Posted 2008-12-08 22:20:48 »

ChrisM was nice enough to ask one of his friend to join the judging panel.


The new judge is Mark DeLoura.

He is the former head of Dev Relations at Sony and Nintendo, is the creator of the Game Programming Gems series of books and is an advisory board member of the Game Developers Conference.

Nice to have someone with his background on the judging panel! Let's not disappoint him! Smiley


The panel is now fully manned!

Yeah!  Mark is absolutely fantastic and we are lucky to have him judge this year.  Hmmm...perhaps I should talk to him about a 4K game entry into the IGF.  Or, perhaps we do a 4K wall of games at JavaOne this year......

Offline luisoft

JGO Coder


Projects: 6


Java games rock!


« Reply #11 - Posted 2009-01-04 22:29:46 »

as a suggestion why don't we open also for public vote. We could have 2 judgments, one public and one private. If the winners are different we could start a new judgment
Offline Eli Delventhal

JGO Kernel


Medals: 42
Projects: 11
Exp: 10 years


Game Engineer


« Reply #12 - Posted 2009-01-04 22:38:14 »

as a suggestion why don't we open also for public vote. We could have 2 judgments, one public and one private. If the winners are different we could start a new judgment
I think that makes sense. There could be a vote like in Ludum Dare where all the different game authors can vote on each other, and then the other will be determined by the judges as usual. Could be pretty interesting to do it that way.

See my work:
OTC Software
Offline luisoft

JGO Coder


Projects: 6


Java games rock!


« Reply #13 - Posted 2009-02-20 18:55:40 »

Guys, just to recap my idea about having also a public voting... you could add a rating option in java4k.com site.
Offline SimonH
« Reply #14 - Posted 2009-02-20 19:13:11 »

having also a public voting... you could add a rating option in java4k.com site.
I agree - I think it could help raise more public interest.

People make games and games make people
Offline appel

JGO Wizard


Medals: 50
Projects: 4


I always win!


« Reply #15 - Posted 2009-03-09 23:44:53 »

I've thought about user generated reviewing/rating. I'd appreciate ideas about how this could be implemented without trivializing the judging process.


Also. I wanted to notify everyone in here that I'm enlisting as a judge. I was originally going to stay out of judging this year, as I was going to submit games, but since I didn't then I'd like to judge. In any case I have a gut feeling that we'll need a backup judge for the competition. If nobody objects to this I'll consider it as OK.

Check out the 4K competition @ www.java4k.com
Check out GAMADU (my own site) @ http://gamadu.com/
Offline Ranger
« Reply #16 - Posted 2009-03-10 00:02:32 »

I've thought about user generated reviewing/rating. I'd appreciate ideas about how this could be implemented without trivializing the judging process.
Maybe just keep them separate.  So there is a winner by judges (which is the real winner), but also and a winner by user ratings.

Users can already leave feedback on the games on this Forum or on your Java4K site, however, a system where a user could give it a score from 1 to 10 or something like that would be nice, just like you can with youtube videos.

Also. I wanted to notify everyone in here that I'm enlisting as a judge. I was originally going to stay out of judging this year, as I was going to submit games, but since I didn't then I'd like to judge. In any case I have a gut feeling that we'll need a backup judge for the competition. If nobody objects to this I'll consider it as OK.
Cool!  Disappointed we didn't get to see your game(s), but you'll redeem yourself by being a judge!  Smiley
Offline Morre

JGO Knight


Medals: 2
Projects: 10


I'm Dragonene on IRC.


« Reply #17 - Posted 2009-03-10 05:22:54 »

I'm fine with appel being a judge. Smiley

Offline CaptainJester

JGO Knight


Medals: 12
Projects: 2
Exp: 14 years


Make it work; make it better.


« Reply #18 - Posted 2009-03-10 12:02:39 »

I've thought about user generated reviewing/rating. I'd appreciate ideas about how this could be implemented without trivializing the judging process.


Also. I wanted to notify everyone in here that I'm enlisting as a judge. I was originally going to stay out of judging this year, as I was going to submit games, but since I didn't then I'd like to judge. In any case I have a gut feeling that we'll need a backup judge for the competition. If nobody objects to this I'll consider it as OK.

The only way to make user ratings useful is to somehow make them play and rate every game.  The last time user ratings were used to determine the winner most users only played the first 10 or 20 games from the alphabetical list.  My game started with a "T" so it got only a couple of plays from the all the user jusdges.  That is why I am against community voting because most users have trouble getting through all the games.  I know I had trouble the year they did user votes.

Offline appel

JGO Wizard


Medals: 50
Projects: 4


I always win!


« Reply #19 - Posted 2009-03-10 12:40:44 »

The only way to make user ratings useful is to somehow make them play and rate every game.  The last time user ratings were used to determine the winner most users only played the first 10 or 20 games from the alphabetical list.  My game started with a "T" so it got only a couple of plays from the all the user jusdges.  That is why I am against community voting because most users have trouble getting through all the games.  I know I had trouble the year they did user votes.

That's exactly one of the reason I haven't implemented community/user voting. I can remember how disappointed I was with the results (2007 I believe), because half the games got 0 score, and no reason was given. With the judging process all games get a fair shake, all games get a review by multiple judges, all games get played, and all games get a score. With user voting what will stop a user from simply voting for 2-3 games and ignore the rest?

If we were to add the option of user voting then that option would simply supplement the judging process, never substitute it.

Check out the 4K competition @ www.java4k.com
Check out GAMADU (my own site) @ http://gamadu.com/
Offline pjt33
« Reply #20 - Posted 2009-03-10 14:05:26 »

If we were to add the option of user voting then that option would simply supplement the judging process, never substitute it.
I don't think anyone was suggesting otherwise. The impression I got was that some people wanted to be more Web 2.0-ish rather than to replace the judges.

The solution to the issue of users not rating games is fairly simple: scale each user's rating by a function of the number of games they've played, and normalise them. The function should probably be of games on the site as a whole rather than games in a given year. I suggest something along the lines of
1  
f(x) = x > 20 ? 1 : x < 4 ? 0 : Math.pow(0.9, 20 - x)

For normalisation, don't display any scores (show a placeholder "Insufficient ratings") until you have N people with more than 20 ratings. Then take the mean of their mean ratings as the mean of the normalised rating, and the mean of the variance of their ratings as the variance of the normalised rating. Possibly re-evaluate these once a month.

Do a Youtube to the extent that if someone has rated a game then you show them their rating rather than the overall one. That way they won't notice that their first rating had weight 0. If a game has fewer than 10 ratings show the placeholder.

Note: I'm not a statistician - I have an A/S in statistics and nothing more. Someone who really knows what they're talking about can probably suggest improvements to this scheme. In particular, it needs a workaround to the fact that each person's distribution will probably be non-normal - if ratings are 1 to 5, then I expect 2 to be less used than 1 or 3.
Offline SquashMonster

Senior Member


Medals: 1
Projects: 2



« Reply #21 - Posted 2009-03-11 05:25:26 »

The judges list was actually the thing that pushed me over the edge in deciding to enter this competition, so I'd like to see that stay the same.

However, I wouldn't mind seeing a user judging system if it was kept separate.  Perhaps ratings could be weighted by the number of games the rater rated?  You could just do a weighted average with %reviewed as the weight.  For example, if there were 10 games, and your game got a 5/5 from somebody who rated all of them, a 4/5 from somebody who rated half of them, and a 1/5 from somebody who just rated yours, you'd get a user rating score of  (5*1+4*0.5+1*0.1)/(1+0.5+0.1)=4.4375.

Since the raters would all know this is how it works, it'd also be motivation to rate more games, as it makes your vote count more.
Offline Eli Delventhal

JGO Kernel


Medals: 42
Projects: 11
Exp: 10 years


Game Engineer


« Reply #22 - Posted 2009-03-11 06:41:50 »

That might motivate people to just dole out totally random reviews.

See my work:
OTC Software
Offline SquashMonster

Senior Member


Medals: 1
Projects: 2



« Reply #23 - Posted 2009-03-11 08:38:47 »

I don't think it'd motivate people to dole out random ones.  Your motivation in sending out extra reviews would be that you want your voice on one game to be heard more, so applying random reviews is counter to your goal: it muddies the whole scoring system, so your review matters less.

If somebody came in and gave one game a rational, fair-minded view, and wanted to increase what they have to say, the natural course of action would be to go do that to other games.

But if they hated your game, they'd probably just go say they love the rest of the games to broaden that impact.  Or vice-versa.  So that's definitely a weakness in the system.
Offline pjt33
« Reply #24 - Posted 2009-03-11 09:28:17 »

I don't see why the details of the system have to be published so that people can game them.
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