4k '09

[appel]

Just doing some preliminaries for the Java 4K 2009 competition

There is still 3 months until it starts, but I'd like to get some feedback on possible improvements. I thought the last competition was very successful, excluding a minor delay in the judging results. But there is always room for improvements, so here's your chance.


I would like to shorten the competition from 3 months (Dec, Jan, Feb) to just 2 months (Dec and Jan). IMO 3 months is too long, add to that maybe one more month for judging (if it's delayed), so 4 months total.
 Can be boring for people to submit a game and not see the results sooner than 4 months later. It's also harder for judges and management of the competition to stay on top of things for so long (1/3 of a year). 2 months, or 8 weeks, should be more than enough for all.


Ok, thanks.

[Eli Delventhal]

That sounds great, I'm very excited to join in the competition. 

[moogie]

hmm... how about jan/feb instead as in december you loose many days to christmas etc..

Games published by our own members! Check 'em out!

[appel]

hmm... how about jan/feb instead as in december you loose many days to christmas etc..

Some are busy, some have plenty free time in december. For myself, school is off in late december, and plenty holiday days. Half of the games in the last contest were submitted in december, 1/4 in jan and 1/4 in feb.

[jojoh]

Judging collided a bit with JavaOne last year for some, so ending one month earlier might be better for getting judging done quicker. Real life^tm can naturally creep in any time, but that seems to be extra hectic. Last year we also had a few entrants on the first day, so if you think it is a bit too short time with 2 months... Well it is still lots of time till end of Jan

[Morre]

I suggest asking woogley to redirect to java4k.com or make clear that there is a new site, as javaunlimited is still as popular as java4k.com from what I understand.

Last year's contest was great, and there were unusually few complaints about judging which is very good. However, there contest recieved less attention than before, so I suggest doing a bit of extra promotion; perhaps announcing the start in general discussion and the likes.

I have no particular opinion on the contest's duration, either way is fine by me. :>

[Markus_Persson]

I usually finish my entry in about two weeks or so, so any time longer than that is fine by me. =)

[appel]

Fantastic. 2 months it is.


Also, discuss:

- 1.6
- Applet-only

[oNyx]

>Applet-only

Beh.

[Morre]

I vote against applet only, but it's not a big deal to me.
As for 1.6, I'm undecided

Games published by our own members! Check 'em out!

[moogie]

what is the benefit of mandating 1.6 only? 1.5 generated byte code will run in 1.6....

[CaptainJester]

what is the benefit of mandating 1.6 only? 1.5 generated byte code will run in 1.6....

I think he means up to version 1.6.

[kappa]

agreed that the competition should be left open to whatever distribution format the users wants (applet, jws, jar only, etc).

[SimonH]

agreed that the competition should be left open to whatever distribution format the users wants (applet, jws, jar only, etc).

Agreed.

1.6? Hmm... Why? I'd give higher marking to a 1.4 game -> java==anywhere

[Eli Delventhal]

And I can't (and will never be able to on this computer) run 1.6.

I can still with my work computer, but otherwise no.

[appel]

Last contest it was 1.5 max. Maybe we'll repeat that. And webstart required.

[Eli Delventhal]

Last contest it was 1.5 max. Maybe we'll repeat that. And webstart required.

I don't care about applets vs. webstart, although I will probably use webstart. I assume the JNLP file doesn't count for the 4k?

[appel]

I assume the JNLP file doesn't count for the 4k?

Never has.

[Ranger]

Once you submit your game, are you allowed to modify/update it at all during the 2 months the competition is open?

...sorry if it is a silly question.  This will be my first comp.   

Applet-only?

I prefer applets as it doesn't force a player to press 'ok' to the silly security stuff that a JNLP often invokes.

[CaptainJester]

I prefer applets as it doesn't force a player to press 'ok' to the silly security stuff that a JNLP often invokes.

This is usually a non-issue for 4K.  You need it for fullscreen or native libraries, otherwise you can leave it off.  Some people put it in unnecessarily.

[Morre]

I prefer applets as it doesn't force a player to press 'ok' to the silly security stuff that a JNLP often invokes.

This is usually a non-issue for 4K.  You need it for fullscreen or native libraries, otherwise you can leave it off.  Some people put it in unnecessarily.

Also, when it *is* needed it will also be needed for applets... so no distinct advantage to applets there.

About the rules: Previous years have allowed changing the entry up until the deadline, so that shouldn't be a problem. But you should really ask appel or jojoh to make sure

[Ranger]

This is usually a non-issue for 4K.  You need it for fullscreen or native libraries, otherwise you can leave it off.  Some people put it in unnecessarily.

Also, when it *is* needed it will also be needed for applets... so no distinct advantage to applets there.

Sorry, I was actually referring to the fact that some systems throw a security message on the d/l and run of just the JNLP file.  The security message telling you about the signed jar is another thing.

About the rules: Previous years have allowed changing the entry up until the deadline, so that shouldn't be a problem. But you should really ask appel or jojoh to make sure

Excellent.  I imagine they will keep the rules the same in this area.  Thanks.

[Morre]

Sorry, I was actually referring to the fact that some systems throw a security message on the d/l and run of just the JNLP file.  The security message telling you about the signed jar is another thing.

Ah, right. In any case it's not the usual behaviour, so in most cases it won't be a problem. 

[jojoh]

About the rules: Previous years have allowed changing the entry up until the deadline, so that shouldn't be a problem. But you should really ask appel or jojoh to make sure

Correct, the submissions will basically be frozen when the deadline is up, so you can go ahead and edit it until then. I would even say that it is encouraged to publish before the deadline, so that you get a chance to get feedback on any problems with different platforms and runtimes, as well as suggestions for improvements.

[EnderGT]

- 1.6

Doesn't really matter so long as its 1.5+, IMO.

- Applet-only

No. Definitely no.

[Markus_Persson]

I don't really care if the contest is applet only or not, but I really don't understand why people are so anti-applet.
It's far superior to webstart as you can just show the applets directly on web pages and not bother the player with accepting a bunch of dialog boxes.

[Eli Delventhal]

I've always had trouble getting applets to run JARs that need natives, like LWJGL. Webstart is easier in that regard.

[Markus_Persson]

Ah, yes. For applications that use native libraries, I agree. =)

[Morre]

For me, the biggest difference is what happens when programs crash (and most do at some point or another). Applets, when run with the old applet plugin, will crash your browser = not good. Webstart won't.

[EnderGT]

I don't really care if the contest is applet only or not, but I really don't understand why people are so anti-applet.
It's far superior to webstart as you can just show the applets directly on web pages and not bother the player with accepting a bunch of dialog boxes.

Because I've been working really freaking hard on an app that needs to run as a server and accept connections from other players

I still don't know whether I'll get it done in time, or whether it'll fit in the 4k, but as far as I know this isn't allowed by applets.