Pokemon world online

[zammbi]

Well I thought I was time to show off my game that I been working on. I programmed the whole client myself, and my friend programs the server.
Currently this is an public alpha 2.

All about it here:
http://www.pokemonworldonline.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=10601


Don't have any sshots on me but I do have a video of alpha 1(old):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-NkajyhVEEI

Any legal questions post them here: http://www.pokemonworldonline.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=2515
This is post is for the Java side of the game.

[Simeon]

Do you have permission to use the Pokemon intellectual property?

[zammbi]

Ah I knew this post would popup sometime heh.
PWO is non-profit (in fact currently loosing money atm), we use our own art, music, code, etc.
Nintendo knows about us as and seems there fine. Also there are many other online pokemon games. In fact another one that is also being made in Java using slick (Pokemon Global).

Games published by our own members! Check 'em out!

[Bonbon-Chan]

I can't create an account (i have put random number to be sure that the name is not in use).
When exiting the login Window (Exit button), PWO is still running  . I have to kill it manually.

[zammbi]

Yea the server goes down a bit since its our development server(I just restarted it so its up now). But ill try find the cause of the other bug. Don't see why its doing that...

[Markus_Persson]

Ah I knew this post would popup sometime heh.
PWO is non-profit (in fact currently loosing money atm), we use our own art, music, code, etc.
Nintendo knows about us as and seems there fine. Also there are many other online pokemon games. In fact another one that is also being made in Java using slick (Pokemon Global).

Er, you're NOT using your own art, those are sprites ripped from pokémon games.
And "everyone else is doing it" is not a valid legal defense.

Also, you offer an enhanced gaming experience in exchange for money, so it's not "non-profit".

[zammbi]

In the Java client all the sprites are custom made by our artists. There's a large thread all about it.
Though if you wish to get into details the tiles and pokemon battle images were royalty free off another game irrc.
But in time they will be remade too.
Also yes we are non-profit, people who donate get extra benefits to help pay for our servers. How else we meant to pay 500usd/month for our severs? We do have 5 servers you know...
But as I said we still making a large loss.

[Ru5tyNZ]

So illegal.

[zammbi]

PWO is a fan base game, we are doing the same are many other pokemon games, the creator of PWO checked out the legal side of it before he made it, and everything checked ok.
Anyway I did not post here to have a legal battle because I don't know all the details myself, I'm the Java programmer doing a rewrite of the current client. I'm just showing here what I can do in Java that's it.
If you have anymore questions about the legal side I suggest posting on our forums so the creator can answer himself. Otherwise please just keep it to the Java side in this post.

[Orangy Tang]

Always a shame to watch talented people waste their time on other people's IP.

Games published by our own members! Check 'em out!

[zammbi]

IP? as in saying that I'm wasting time doing this game?
I would disagree, this was my first ever game made, in fact 1st ever project, did it with no help. Only library used was ogg, everything else is my work.  I had to start somewhere so why not a online game eh?
This so far has taken me 3 months to do in my spare time.
Once it's done I'll be working on a 3d online rpg sorta like a game like egoboo (only single player). Yes I know 99% never get finished but I'll start only something small first and stick to it and I can create my own models (I know lightwave), plus I at any time I can get friends to help.
Though haven't done much in terms of server programming but I'm a fast learner.

[SimonH]

Nintendo knows about us

I suspect they're waiting to see if you do well; if you do they'll shut you down (but steal any good ideas you've had...)

[zammbi]

If you follow pokemon news, there was a huge pokemon online game(much larger then PWO), which the creator closed it off because of going to collage. Nintendo even posted a good comment about them and said sorry that it closed down. There's no pokemon fan game that has ever been closed down by nintendo and seems they will never do a online pokemon game. To my knowledge non-profit fan games are legel. Now can we stop posting the legal questions.

[Bonbon-Chan]

Oki, I managed to login this time 

I like the interface (nice  ). I manage to go around to the first town. I did 2 or 3 "fight" but it didn't mange to understand how to cach a pokemon (i click on the text "pokeball" in the inventory but nothing append).

There, in the first town, lost of problems with doors. When i walk on the door (of the store) nothing append but when  i try to go out of the door I'm teleported somewhere else (one time on the montaign, one time in the middle, and one time nowhere - a black screen). But I did mange to go in 

I would love to have be able to choose a girl but i seems that there is only one sprite for PC/NPC right now 

[zammbi]

Glad you like the interface.
Remember the client is only an alpha not everything is in yet, you can't use items,chat/battle npcs, etc. 3rd alpha I'm planning to finish the most of the important features.
Warping problems is from the server, nothing I can do about that. We are getting more programmers it seems so hopefully these server problems will be fixed soon. Though I will continue to work on the Java client alone.
We have a whole thread on sprite clothes, soon it will use the same clothes(when finished) in game as your playerdex avatar. Which will make everyone unique.

[cylab]

Now can we stop posting the legal questions.

One last thing: You could just try asking nintendo for a written permission with your project description.

[OverKill]

I wonder why people just do not try to tell the OP their issues instead of posting useless one-liners.
The OP just might not know how much trouble he is getting himself into.

So I will try.

@OP:
You should, when using stuff like visuals and audio, be 110% sure that you can use it. If not you will always run the chance of some IP holder slapping you with the legal hering.
Write directly to Nintendo and get confirmation that they are ok with you using the name and that stuff and also with the content.

People have gotten lawsuits for their name sounding like that of another.

Better safe then sorry.

Also, the fact that you are asking for donations is probably borderline questionable because many comps allow usage of their material as long as it remains free.
And asking money for additional visual (or like) content might be agains that provision.
If you were doing such for extra features that do not come in conflict with the provisions that might be something different.

Again, write Nintendo and lay out all aspects of your doing. If they say fine, make a copy and add it to the project so everyone can see.
If not you should look over everything again and figure out what you can do to satisfy them.

Remember if you do not use their stuff, you have nothing to fear. Make a clone that does the same thing but does not use the IP and you are good to go.
It can be that simple. (Plus I have seen guys here come up with the best names for games yet. 'They came from the top right corner' FTW!!!)

You should not be suprised by the reactions you are getting.
People only have your word you are not doing anything illegal and you can imagine that, with all respect, how little value it has.
The only way to convince us is to have hard proof.
Does Nintendo have some kind of liscence document for their content defining what and how you can use their IP?

[zammbi]

Ok thanks for the feedback overkill.
As I said I'm the programmer, I'm not in charge of the legal stuff.
What I was told is that everything has been checked ok. Myself I don't know too much in this area that is why I can't give the best answers. But to my knowledge everything is made by us or is royalty free.
I'll ask the creator or the other staff on some hard proof, I'm not good in the legal area.
I'll also see if we can officially be accepted by nintendo.
Also for people who donate, they get extra xp and money, nothing to do with extra visual.

[Eli Delventhal]

Looks very cool!

As for all the IP comments, I agree with a lot of them. Although you probably won't get sued or anything, it's likely you could get shut down and I'm sure there's no way you could ever get official permission from Nintendo.

Also, it's perfectly legal for you to use Nintendo's game mechanics and concepts - for the most part those can't be copyrighted, as long you don't rip them off too directly. So, if you call the game something else and change it slightly, you're doing just fine. The only disadvantage to this is losing potential fans, but it's probably a very good idea to make this switch if you get popular.

In terms of pokemon itself, there is very little that would be worth keeping aside from mechanics. Why not design your own creatures, and change the premise? You could get infinitely more interesting than pokemon. How about transdimensional daemons that bond with humans? Or pikmin-esque being trapped on a native planet and needing the help of the locals? There are ton of ideas that are way more interesting and plausible than forcing creatures into little balls for no reason.

[zammbi]

If there was any problems we would change our name(s)(this was talked about months back) if the worse came to worse.
Well the creator has started other games just like something you said heh. One about catching daemons on another plane.
Myself I just want to create my own game, which I just need the time now.

[woogley]

I personally think it's OK to use IP to practice game making abilities.. not every programmer is an artist or has access to good art..

In your case though, you're making money through the shop.. whether or not you actually PROFIT doesn't matter, you shouldn't use someone else's hard work to obtain money without their permission. By using their art, you're saving money by not having to recruit a proper artist, and your audience is bigger simply because you're spinning off the Pokemon brand..

That aside, it is an interesting project, the networking is a feat you should be proud of, and the GUI is nice (in places). You don't see many MMORPG's get past the planning stage, so I give you credit for that!

I would just strongly encourage you to remove the ability to trade real-world currency for virtual goods (including the pokedollars themselves). Keep it a personal project that you share with the Pokemon community. There's nothing wrong with asking for donations for hosting (as you already are). If the players want to keep the game up, they will donate (Wurm did this for 2 years before they even had "premium" accounts and such)

[gouessej]

  Well done! It is an excellent game! You can be proud of it. Which OpenGL support do you plan to add? JOGL? LWJGL? If you use fullscreen mode, take care of the problem under Linux please.

On the other hand, if you agreed, it would be nice to add your game into the Java Game Tome.

[zammbi]

Thanks. Though I only wrote the Java client.
Well it no longer needs openGL support because I heavy optimised it. It runs 5-10% cpu usage (less in full screen) on my computer. With the openGL pipeline it uses 1-2% heh, but with the openGL pipeline on it removes all text on full screen. Though I wouldn't know what I would get for lwjgl but I don't think its necessary.
The only thing that it bad, that it can use 100 megs of ram because it keeps all tiles in memory but any other image is in a weakhashmap. Next alpha I'll compress the tiles in memory.

I got reported that Fullscreen works fine in linux.
Feel free to add it to the Java Game Tome but just comment that its an alpha and list a link to the forum message I wrote.

[Juriy]

Could you please describe those "heavy optimizations" (or at least give some hints). I'm constantly having issues with CPU usage on Java 2D. I thought it's normal. But having 5-10% is really great result.

[zammbi]

Well basically most of all that info is on this forum.
But some things I did:
I used least possible transparent tiles.
Tile images are 32x32. Images I try do x^2 width/height.
If a image is modified it will save it, to reuse it later when needed.
Have a class that stores all images in a static hashmap so all classes know what images have been loaded and grab any of those images.
Used graphicConf.createCompatibleImage(...) to do all my images.
Gui images are all done in swing.
My rendering loop in a different thread from swing.

[Juriy]

Do you repaint the whole scene all the time, or you're using some algorithm to determine "dirty" areas and repaint only those? And one more thing: do you cache background somehow or just repaint it every frame?

[zammbi]

Current version as of now it just paints to the screen at 30fps. Though that's because I forgot to turn back on the option when the screen hasn't change it doesn't paint. But I don't people would notice the difference with it back on 
I was thinking to work out dirty areas because I was porting over for pda but I have stopped working on that version currently And since my current version is already low cpu I have not worried about dirty areas.
I use canvas using BufferStrategy on 2 and everything gets painted to that.

[Juriy]

Thanks for your replies. They are very helpful. One more thing: you've told about pda... you're making java port or you're going to use .NET for PDA? Once I tried to figure out how to write a Java game for PDA and I've found that there's no "official" JRE for PDA's. And third party JRE implementation are either commercial or of low quality.

[zammbi]

Just to note, depending on your game, my setup may not be what you want. Example drawing to screen is usually the most expensive, so working out dirty tiles might help a lot for you.
As for the PDA version I was working on, I'm keeping it as Java.
I was working with Mysaifu (http://www2s.biglobe.ne.jp/~dat/java/project/jvm/index_en.html), which is not too bad. It gets regular updates.
Though I did find it slow working with my packets, so I need to wait for our server to get optimized in packets area before I continue.
You also have the choice of testing PhoneME(http://www.cs.kuleuven.ac.be/~davy/phoneme/downloads.htm) which what I heard works well if works on your device. But last time I tried testing it, it didn't work for my pda.

[Eli Delventhal]

JNLPException[category: Launch File Error : Exception: null : LaunchDesc:
<jnlp spec="1.5+" codebase="http://www.pokemonworldonline.net/downloads/webstart/" href="http://www.pokemonworldonline.net/downloads/webstart/PWO.jnlp">
  <information>
    <title>Pokemon World Online Alpha 2</title>
    <vendor>KyroCorp</vendor>
    <homepage href="http://www.pokemonworldonline.net"/>
    <description>A full free playable online pokemon game based off the handheld versions!</description>
    <description kind="short">Free online pokemon rpg game</description>
    <icon href="http://www.pokemonworldonline.net/downloads/webstart/icon.gif" kind="default"/>
    <icon href="http://www.pokemonworldonline.net/downloads/webstart/center.gif" kind="splash"/>
    <shortcut online="true">
      <menu submenu="Pokemon World Online"/>
    </shortcut>
  </information>
  <security>
    <all-permissions/>
  </security>
  <resources>
    <property name="sun.java2d.translaccel" value="true"/>
    <property name="apple.laf.useScreenMenuBar" value="true"/>
    <jar href="http://www.pokemonworldonline.net/downloads/webstart/PWO.jar" download="eager" main="true"/>
    <jar href="http://www.pokemonworldonline.net/downloads/webstart/Images.jar" download="eager" main="false"/>
    <jar href="http://www.pokemonworldonline.net/downloads/webstart/Music.jar" download="eager" main="false"/>
    <jar href="http://www.pokemonworldonline.net/downloads/webstart/Sound.jar" download="eager" main="false"/>
  </resources>
  <application-desc main-class="L"/>
</jnlp> ]
   at com.sun.javaws.Launcher.handleLaunchFile(Launcher.java:210)
   at com.sun.javaws.Launcher.run(Launcher.java:165)
   at java.lang.Thread.run(Thread.java:613)