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  Standard/prefered input device on pc?  (Read 5026 times)
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Offline Orangy Tang

JGO Kernel


Medals: 56
Projects: 11


Monkey for a head


« Posted 2003-08-24 12:14:57 »

Whats common for pc games to expect for input nowadays? Recently i've only really been playing FPS or RTS games on my pc, both of which are pretty much refined their controls to keyboard+mouse as their exclusive and best method (and one of the reasons why there's few good examples of these on consoles).

In contrast, a lot of the games i've been playing on my 'Cube are more arcade-y and action based, Zelda, Ikaruga, Monkey Ball most notably. These are fast action games that are usually suited best to a joypad(and in the case of Monkey ball, an analoge joystick is a must).

But where does that leave pc action games? If i'm to start on one now, should i aim for joypad support as standard and keyboard as a backup? Or assume keyboard with joypad as an optional extra? The main problem seems to be with analoge controls - anyone whos held the 'Cube joypad will know how well designed it is, and how responsive the joysticks are (and to a lesser extent, the xbox and DC controllers). A game designed to take advantage of these just doesn't translate over very well to keyboard input Sad

Are joypads widespread enough on pcs to be considered 'standard' yet? What about the split between analoge and digital?

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Offline kevglass

JGO Kernel


Medals: 120
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« Reply #1 - Posted 2003-08-24 12:32:56 »

It seems to me joypads are still a rare commodity on PCs. Its another one of the things we could do with polls on here for.. ask the 2000+ members who has a joypad for their PC.

However, I reakon including an option for it is great, but it can be a bit of work.

Kev

Offline troggan

Junior Member




no guts no glory


« Reply #2 - Posted 2003-08-24 13:46:16 »

I have an old gravis gamepad, but i don't use it very often. a few years ago joysticks were quite common, i played a lot of games that needed them (x-wing, etc...), but today only a small percentage of gamers own one.

but if you prefer playing with a gamepad or joystick, just add it Wink

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Offline Markus_Persson

JGO Wizard


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Mojang Specifications


« Reply #3 - Posted 2003-08-24 13:59:23 »

I've got a couple of gamepads.. I've even got a CyberMan 2 (horrible!! Can't use it for anything!).

I got them mostly for emulators and so, as pretty much all pc games are made for mouse and/or keyboard input, and they just get weird when you try to use a gamepad.

Play Minecraft!
Offline Herkules

Senior Member




Friendly fire isn't friendly!


« Reply #4 - Posted 2003-08-24 14:28:31 »

PC == Mouse/Kbd

HARDCODE    --     DRTS/FlyingGuns/JPilot/JXInput  --    skype me: joerg.plewe
Offline princec

JGO Kernel


Medals: 342
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« Reply #5 - Posted 2003-08-24 16:26:43 »

What's needed on the PC is a "killer app" that requires a dual-analogue joystick to get the devices on a more level footing.

Cas Smiley

Offline Herkules

Senior Member




Friendly fire isn't friendly!


« Reply #6 - Posted 2003-08-24 17:14:32 »

There has to be a reason that MS stops producing joysticks/pads/wheels.

HARDCODE    --     DRTS/FlyingGuns/JPilot/JXInput  --    skype me: joerg.plewe
Offline swpalmer

JGO Coder




Where's the Kaboom?


« Reply #7 - Posted 2003-08-24 17:21:29 »

For PC games you will have to come up with a keyboard/mouse control method even if a gamepad (digital or analog) makes more sense.  Otherwise you've severely limited the market for your game.   I think that most digital joystick + button controllers can map to the keyboard very easily.. it's the analog control that can be painful.  For analog controls you are often limited to buttons for increasing and decreasing the control value.. think of a flight simulator with keyboard control for the yolk position.

Offline gregorypierce

Senior Member




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« Reply #8 - Posted 2003-08-24 20:32:43 »

Keyboard and Mouse are pretty much requirements for PC gaming. Even if you may them to something else, people will still try to use they keyboard and mouse Smiley

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Offline oNyx

JGO Coder


Medals: 1


pixels! :x


« Reply #9 - Posted 2003-08-25 03:12:42 »

Unfortunately you can only be sure that there is a keyboard and a mouse.

The keyboard can have a layout wich makes [your] default button configuration useless and the mouse can lack a 2nd button and/or can have a bad sampling rate like 40hz (serial mice).

I wish there would be more gamers with gamepads around... I have two Saitek P880 (dual) analog pads - it's the best pad I have seen so far (and I have tested tons of pads).

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Offline endolf

JGO Coder


Medals: 7


Current project release date: sometime in 3003


« Reply #10 - Posted 2003-08-25 16:18:39 »

Hi
 Most games seem to have them all configured at the same time, ie, mouse/keybard, and joystick/gamepad (dpending on what makes sence), and then provide the option to remap axis/buttons. It's something i've looked at before for the game(s) i've started writing. I'm thinking about mouse/keybaord as a default and then if it can find one, mapping default joystick axis and buttons, again it will all be configurable though.

HTH

Endolf

Offline Herkules

Senior Member




Friendly fire isn't friendly!


« Reply #11 - Posted 2003-08-25 21:52:10 »

not even configurable - I personally prefer automatic use of the best device.

If you play FlyingGuns, which is based on JXInput, you can fly with keyboard, which is not so easy. If you move the mouse, mouse control is automatically used. If there is a joystick present and you move it, it is automatically used. Now leave the joystick alone and use keyboard again....


HARDCODE    --     DRTS/FlyingGuns/JPilot/JXInput  --    skype me: joerg.plewe
Offline endolf

JGO Coder


Medals: 7


Current project release date: sometime in 3003


« Reply #12 - Posted 2003-08-25 22:57:21 »

Great till you got a slightly old joystick, maybe on the game port, that doesn't calibrate properly Smiley, I think it was elite (more likely frontier) on the PC that wouldn't let you disable the joystick, so once it found it, I couldn't fly streight using the mouse, so every time I played it I had to unplug the sod, detect it, but let the user override it if they want

At the end of the day the end user knows how *they* want to play.

Endolf

Offline Herkules

Senior Member




Friendly fire isn't friendly!


« Reply #13 - Posted 2003-08-26 09:04:18 »

I configured the margins when switching to joystick to 0.2 (if joystick moves from [-1,1]). The absolut positions are of no interest, you have to move the joystick that far before control is switched over. Even very old joystick don't shiver oscillate that much.

And I do it on a per-axis basis. So you can e.g. control elevator and aileron with joystick, while you keep steering the rudder by keyboard.

HARDCODE    --     DRTS/FlyingGuns/JPilot/JXInput  --    skype me: joerg.plewe
Offline Orangy Tang

JGO Kernel


Medals: 56
Projects: 11


Monkey for a head


« Reply #14 - Posted 2003-08-26 11:38:43 »

Joypads are definatly still the minority when it comes to pcs it seems then Angry Looks like i'll be adding keyboard control as a backup, and time to go delving into JInput to try and get some sort of keyboard/joypad swappable-ness..

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Offline princec

JGO Kernel


Medals: 342
Projects: 3
Exp: 16 years


Eh? Who? What? ... Me?


« Reply #15 - Posted 2003-08-26 12:16:12 »

BongPig told me about PomPom getting a bundle deal with some PC joypad manufacturers for Mutant Storm. After I've added joypad support to Alien Flux I'm going to see if we can pursue a similar deal.

Cas Smiley

Offline Orangy Tang

JGO Kernel


Medals: 56
Projects: 11


Monkey for a head


« Reply #16 - Posted 2003-08-26 12:32:09 »

Thats a great idea for them - Mutant Storm really does play sooo much better with my GameCube pad than compared to keyboard (not as much fun as Space Tripper, but we'll let that slide). But will the same be true for Alien Flux?

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Offline princec

JGO Kernel


Medals: 342
Projects: 3
Exp: 16 years


Eh? Who? What? ... Me?


« Reply #17 - Posted 2003-09-01 10:44:38 »

I imagine it'll be fun, but I have to wait until I can get hold of a joystick first. I'm not so sure Matzon's joystick code knows about dual sticks either.

Cas Smiley

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