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  My Highschool class is making an MMORPG...  (Read 29040 times)
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Offline Orangy Tang

JGO Kernel


Medals: 56
Projects: 11


Monkey for a head


« Reply #90 - Posted 2008-05-06 21:36:53 »

Something that I wonder about is why almost everyone wants to make an MMORPG or similar, especially for their first project.

What's the psychology behind wanting to make a different mmorpg from those that already exist? Is what you expect from an mmorpg really so much different from what they offer? Or do people want to start out with an mmo because there's less content to make? Since mmo's are usually open-ended they don't need to have a real story?

A couple of reasons I suspect:

1. Everyone loves having fans. I can spend 6 months on a single player game, release it, and get little more than a few comments like "nice game", and that's about it. Having your own world where you can walk around and see your users playing your game is considerably more involved and rewarding on it's own.

2. Even the big budget MMOs are staggeringly shallow and massivly frustrating from an armchair game designer point of view. 90% of missions are just the same "kill big guy X", "kill N amount of enemy Y" or "take item to place Z". As Riven said, it seems like it should be really easy to create something much more detailed and fun that that. Plus the nature of MMOs usually means that they've full of visual glitches (people walking through other people, teleporting, lagging, ropey collision detection) caused by lag, which make them look much cruder than they really are.

Contrast with something like Halo or UT where there's a *lot* of stuff going on visually at the same time, with tons of polish and precision collision detection/physics/animation/etc. It's not surprising that there's lots of n00bs who think they can do better if they just work hard.

[ TriangularPixels.com - Play Growth Spurt, Rescue Squad and Snowman Village ] [ Rebirth - game resource library ]
Offline OverKill

Junior Member




Java games rock!


« Reply #91 - Posted 2008-05-07 07:53:50 »

I agree with all the guys on the board. A MMORPG is, even in it's simplest form, a ton of work and nothing trivial.

If you were to reduce your scope to say a really simple 2d multiuser game, then you might get something running in time.

If I'd make a game, the first iteration would be a Zelda style 2d multiuser game. Nothing fancy. (see below)

When we look at todays games, they have gone through countless iterations. No company just decides 'hey lets make a MMORPG'.
GuildWars and WoW (while being simple compared to others) both evolved from Diablo(2).
Complexer games like NWN have a long history of ancestors. (BG is now about 9? years old)
And even they were inspired by MUDs and Gauntlet games.

Even with today's tools, you cannot just leap over those iterations.

What I always tell my underlings is that the result is what defines you.
If you say you want to make a MMORPG and you fail, that will be how you are measured.
Look at your peers in this board. Do you think you will impress them?

Were you to say you are starting slow and trying to learn and are willing to do all the iterations, I am sure the reply will be very different.
And your chances of failing with a smaller project will be a lot lower.

@malberts
MMORPGs are currently the fad, so people will make them. It used to be FPSs or MUDs.
(though, as an old school pnp gamer I shudder when I hear 'MMORPG')

To be honest, in my off time I dabble around with a little network game (afore mentioned Zelda game). Mostly to try out stuff and further my experience.
I do not even plan on having a UI. Done some research into using BeanShell for scripting.
If a small multiplayer prg dropps out at the end, great. But that is not the goal.

@Community Created Game:
Could we all make a game together? Sure. TBH I could not think of a group of people I'd rather make a game with.
But I also do not think it is realistic as a off-time project.
Offline malberts

Junior Member





« Reply #92 - Posted 2008-05-07 18:19:01 »

This is probably slightly off-topic, but what do you people think of a (mm)orpg on j2me? The last time I played any j2me game (about 2 years ago) I was only aware of 1 such online multi user rpg, but the game never worked correctly so I deleted it. I don't know if more exist now, but since people are apparently so into mmorpgs and cellphones are becoming more and more powerful (and you probably have it near you most of the time) I was wondering when some major j2me (mm)orpg was going to be released (if not already)?

In space no-one can hear you System.out.println()
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Offline OverKill

Junior Member




Java games rock!


« Reply #93 - Posted 2008-05-08 07:14:51 »

This is probably slightly off-topic, but what do you people think of a (mm)orpg on j2me? The last time I played any j2me game (about 2 years ago) I was only aware of 1 such online multi user rpg, but the game never worked correctly so I deleted it. I don't know if more exist now, but since people are apparently so into mmorpgs and cellphones are becoming more and more powerful (and you probably have it near you most of the time) I was wondering when some major j2me (mm)orpg was going to be released (if not already)?
One of the few I know of that actually was released was Tibia (iirc).

Many others wanted to do this as well but I heard very little of them afterwards.

While the idea is surely nothing new, this topic often came up in the Mobile Game Comp I had worked at and most agreed that it would be technically possible but not of interest..
The mobile market is different then the pc market. Flatrates are still not common. In order to pay for the servers you'd need subscriptions. There are no real demos you can try first.
Distribution can be an issue. Device coverage (more devices supported = more income but also more problems and less freedoms).
Finally the overall quality of the games is not up to par with pc titles.

What I had suggested back then but was not done would be games where you can play offline and online.
Think Gauntlet were you only have one char and the other three can be 'hired' online. The hirelings can be NPCs or be other players characters.
You have no direct control over them, they just tag along and fight with you. (possibly with some minor configuration possibilities by the owner)
In order for other players to be interested in uploading their chars they are rewarded with 1/16th of the exp and gold.
The service collects a fee for the hirelings and blocks them for a fixed time.
So when a player is not playing their char can still progress.

In addition I would also allow viewing the chars online and with top 10 lists and like.
Possibly also with an auction house.

Traffic would not be that great and with the web-based content you can also support ads and that might compensate for your costs.

Thus a singleplayer game with the feeling of multiplayer.

Hmm, thinking about it. It sounds just like a scenario for my network game. Smiley
Offline ClickerMonkey

JGO Coder


Medals: 20


Game Engineer


« Reply #94 - Posted 2008-05-08 14:08:22 »

A little off-topic are we? talking about how the worlds a simulation... anywho If anyone would ever want to make an effort to start an MMORPG on this forum, I would definitely join.

Offline Eli Delventhal

JGO Kernel


Medals: 42
Projects: 11
Exp: 10 years


Game Engineer


« Reply #95 - Posted 2008-05-08 18:23:41 »

A little off-topic are we? talking about how the worlds a simulation... anywho If anyone would ever want to make an effort to start an MMORPG on this forum, I would definitely join.
Lol.

See my work:
OTC Software
Offline malberts

Junior Member





« Reply #96 - Posted 2008-05-08 18:34:07 »

Well we are making an MMORPG. See Riven's post on the previous page. The goal of the game is to see whose avatar codes the best MMORPG. So if one of you can start on an engine simulating engine, that would be great.

In space no-one can hear you System.out.println()
Offline malberts

Junior Member





« Reply #97 - Posted 2008-05-08 18:35:59 »

Or if you think your skills are way too advanced for such a project then you can join trussel's MMORPG instead.

In space no-one can hear you System.out.println()
Offline ClickerMonkey

JGO Coder


Medals: 20


Game Engineer


« Reply #98 - Posted 2008-05-08 20:56:56 »

Ha very funny, I have an engine simulating engine already thank you very much, along with my source code to the Matrix.

Offline malberts

Junior Member





« Reply #99 - Posted 2008-05-08 21:02:24 »

Ha very funny, I have an engine simulating engine already thank you very much, along with my source code to the Matrix.

Hehe cool. Post the code when you have the time.

In space no-one can hear you System.out.println()
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Offline Riven
« League of Dukes »

JGO Overlord


Medals: 783
Projects: 4
Exp: 16 years


Hand over your head.


« Reply #100 - Posted 2008-05-08 21:13:12 »

Just bruteforce the damn thing! (and cut compile-time while at it!)

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boolean enoughMonkeys = true;

while(enoughMonkeys)
{
   OutputStream out = new FileOutputStream(new File("./matrix.jar"));
   while(Math.random() < 0.99999)
      out.write((byte)(Math.random()*0xFF));
   out.close();

   try
   {
      Process p = Runtime.getRuntime().exec("java -jar ./matrix.jar");

      p.waitFor();
   }
   catch(Exception exc)
   {
      // ignore
  }
}

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Offline ClickerMonkey

JGO Coder


Medals: 20


Game Engineer


« Reply #101 - Posted 2008-05-08 21:26:37 »

Ha very clever, I keep the witty remarks to actual english rather then code, to appear less like a programmer so society doesn't look at us like we're different. End Line.

Offline malberts

Junior Member





« Reply #102 - Posted 2008-05-08 21:29:22 »

Oh what horrors have I unleashed upon this world...
Paging through some necromancy books I stumbled upon the ultimate evil of forcing 2 seperate instances of the Matrix to coincide. Oh forgive me for this attrocity I burdened the world with. I can only give my method in a short way...oh no, it has come. I hear sounds at my door: as if that damned creature from the upheaved rotten ocean beds have come for me, to finish it's job. And I have no more morphine to numb the horrors of the beast. Time is running out, then the window: I must jump, before that horrible beast lays its forsaken tentacles on me....

[1 -2] . [4 2]T = [ 0 ]

Aaaargh....

In space no-one can hear you System.out.println()
Offline Riven
« League of Dukes »

JGO Overlord


Medals: 783
Projects: 4
Exp: 16 years


Hand over your head.


« Reply #103 - Posted 2008-05-08 21:44:07 »

Actually, that isn't all that bad. It will be a fresh start. It will take another five thousand years before noobs attempting to create MMORPGs again. Think of the possibilities.

However, now that the idea has settled deeper into my externally emulated sensory stimulated brain, the horrors of the BlueSkyOfDeath begin to daunt on me. How will we manage? Will we break free? Will we long for what we thought we had?



for instance, do object to switch default cases while new protected classes continue to break public arrays of volatile fields

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Offline Riven
« League of Dukes »

JGO Overlord


Medals: 783
Projects: 4
Exp: 16 years


Hand over your head.


« Reply #104 - Posted 2008-05-08 21:47:56 »

Don't hurt me, for I am your creator.

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Offline ClickerMonkey

JGO Coder


Medals: 20


Game Engineer


« Reply #105 - Posted 2008-05-08 21:49:16 »

Quote
for instance, do object to switch default cases while new protected classes continue to break public arrays of volatile fields

Come again?

Offline malberts

Junior Member





« Reply #106 - Posted 2008-05-08 21:54:05 »

I am a butterfly, dreaming of being a robot. But how can I, a mere butterfly know of robots? Or am I a robot dreaming of a butterfly dreaming of a robot? Or am I attempting to make an MMORPG with no experience?
Or am I an uncaught exception, dreaming of being an asserted c++ division by zero?

In space no-one can hear you System.out.println()
Offline irrisor

Junior Member





« Reply #107 - Posted 2008-05-09 07:02:31 »

So what are Riven and Malberts trying to tell us? They have gone crazy because they always wanted to make a MMORPG and never had the guts to start doing it?

I think I should quote Kev then:
just go for it! Smiley

Get started - Probably you can still recover from that insanity! Tongue   (ok, it's pretty unlikely, but still...)
Offline princec

JGO Kernel


Medals: 367
Projects: 3
Exp: 16 years


Eh? Who? What? ... Me?


« Reply #108 - Posted 2008-05-09 08:30:35 »

Why does everyone always try for the first M in MMORPGs anyway? Don't they realise they'll need literally hundreds of servers to make it run if it's successful?

Cas Smiley

Offline noblemaster

JGO Ninja


Medals: 20
Projects: 10


Age of Conquest makes your day!


« Reply #109 - Posted 2008-05-09 08:45:30 »

Speak for yourself princec!!! I am working on the EMMORPG... E=Extreme...

Offline malberts

Junior Member





« Reply #110 - Posted 2008-05-09 08:45:58 »

They have gone crazy because they always wanted to make a MMORPG and never had the guts to start doing it?

Hehehe. No, we have gone crazy because we live in a simulated world and at the current rate of expansion of the universe we will continue to spawn simulations and never reach our original selves.

The problem I have with this "go for it" philosophy is that it needs to bee seen in context. If someone has been doing game programming for a while and then decided to do an MMORPG then "go for it" is a good idea. But I don't know how many games trussel has done before, when doing something of an MMORPG scale it is quite likely that he might pick some bad programming habits.

princec, I think the word MMORPG is more common than just ORPG or MORPG, thats why people mentally associate the word MMORPG with any online game with more than a few human players in a RPG environment. I don't think I've seen a game specifically branded as ORPG or MORPG, only MMORPG.

In space no-one can hear you System.out.println()
Offline Riven
« League of Dukes »

JGO Overlord


Medals: 783
Projects: 4
Exp: 16 years


Hand over your head.


« Reply #111 - Posted 2008-05-09 08:50:00 »

Quote
So what are Riven and Malberts trying to tell us? They have gone crazy because they always wanted to make a MMORPG and never had the guts to start doing it?

You're close (at least for my situation). I actually started it like 5 years ago, got nice a 3D engine and physics engine out of it, but failed miserably with any gameplay as it always remained a (fancy) techdemo. I could have planned it totally different: starting small, and working my way up, after which I might actually have something like a MiniMORPG in my portfolio now... however, now I got a day job, and I lack the free time to do it better.



Quote
Why does everyone always try for the first M in MMORPGs anyway?

Because there is no such thing as a MORPG in their vocabulary

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Offline malberts

Junior Member





« Reply #112 - Posted 2008-05-09 09:18:28 »

You're close (at least for my situation). I actually started it like 5 years ago

Well I've never attempted an MMORPG because I've never had the motivation to make one. I only started with java 4 years when ago in high school. Roughly in the 3 years of high school java we learned to bubble sort, manipulate strings and do simple swing windows. So I had to take it upon myself to learn double buffering from KGPJ and figure out how to make the game as modular as possible (waves, levels, ships, shots, etc. stored in files) and how to load stuff and manage everything. Suffice to say that was hectic enough. I did at a point consider doing a DnD influenced RPG but quickly dropped that idea because I didn't want to write a story.

Now the reason why MMORPGs never really had my attention is because online gaming isn't exactly the most popular thing in my country. If we wanted social gaming it would be by means of LAN. Most of the time the games would be FPS or RTS. And I have no real need to make those kinds of games, especially when games like UT already exist.

The games I would be interested in nowadays would be more 2d oriented with LOTS of destruction and dismemberment. Seeing violence in 2d is soooo much fun. Aah, Soldier of Fortune, how I miss doing a lobotomy with my knife....

In space no-one can hear you System.out.println()
Offline dishmoth
« Reply #113 - Posted 2008-05-09 12:06:50 »

Why does everyone always try for the first M in MMORPGs anyway?
Imagine how dull this thread would've been if the original poster had said he wanted to make a simple networked 3D tech demo. Wink
Simon

Offline OverKill

Junior Member




Java games rock!


« Reply #114 - Posted 2008-05-09 14:40:49 »

Because there is no such thing as a MORPG in their vocabulary
If they had words like MMORPG which is nothing more then marketing word and has nothing to do with RPG, then why not MORPG?

RPG is like acting.
If you look at MMORPGs it would be more like working at Burger King. Same repetitive tasks for very little actual gain and at the same time think you are mr 1337-d00d and 'keeping it real'.
Offline ClickerMonkey

JGO Coder


Medals: 20


Game Engineer


« Reply #115 - Posted 2008-05-09 17:30:52 »

Quote
If you look at MMORPGs it would be more like working at Burger King. Same repetitive tasks for very little actual gain and at the same time think you are mr 1337-d00d and 'keeping it real'.

Funny thing about that is Mr. 1337-d00d is my screen name and keeping it real is my alter ego.

Offline Mr_Light

Senior Member




shiny.


« Reply #116 - Posted 2008-05-12 08:14:16 »

now I got a day job, and I lack the free time to do it better.

Sounds like an excellent idea to do it in highschool while you still have tons of time then  Wink

It's harder to read code than to write it. - it's even harder to write readable code.

The gospel of brother Riven: "The guarantee that all bugs are in *your* code is worth gold." Amen brother a-m-e-n.
Offline Riven
« League of Dukes »

JGO Overlord


Medals: 783
Projects: 4
Exp: 16 years


Hand over your head.


« Reply #117 - Posted 2008-05-12 11:32:17 »

Sounds like an excellent idea to do it in highschool while you still have tons of time then  Wink

Yeah, but I said, "to do it better" ! I'd rather spend my 'abundance of spare time' in highschool not making unnecessary mistakes.

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Offline Eli Delventhal

JGO Kernel


Medals: 42
Projects: 11
Exp: 10 years


Game Engineer


« Reply #118 - Posted 2008-05-12 18:45:24 »

High school is for unnecessary mistakes.  Shocked

See my work:
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Offline Riven
« League of Dukes »

JGO Overlord


Medals: 783
Projects: 4
Exp: 16 years


Hand over your head.


« Reply #119 - Posted 2008-05-12 19:15:08 »

High school is for necessary mistakes.

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