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  My Highschool class is making an MMORPG...  (Read 29247 times)
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Offline ClickerMonkey

JGO Coder


Medals: 20


Game Engineer


« Reply #60 - Posted 2008-05-04 16:25:45 »

Reading this whole topic just makes me giggle inside. These guys are right, they're experienced, you're not experienced, who would you go with? Try making a 2D rpg game, even thats ambitious for a year if you wanna make it a decent game. Eventually you can then turn it into 3D which is a better route to take because at the end of the year you might actually have something done.

Offline Eli Delventhal

JGO Kernel


Medals: 42
Projects: 11
Exp: 10 years


Game Engineer


« Reply #61 - Posted 2008-05-04 19:17:36 »

Reading this whole topic just makes me giggle inside. These guys are right, they're experienced, you're not experienced, who would you go with? Try making a 2D rpg game, even thats ambitious for a year if you wanna make it a decent game. Eventually you can then turn it into 3D which is a better route to take because at the end of the year you might actually have something done.
Smart words. 2D is so much simpler than 3D.

But, 3D is good to know. Like I said earlier, if your goal is to learn and it's not to finish a game, then stick with 3D. Otherwise, 2D is a better choice.

See my work:
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Offline noblemaster

JGO Ninja


Medals: 20
Projects: 10


Age of Conquest makes your day!


« Reply #62 - Posted 2008-05-05 06:05:00 »

Eternal Lands' MMORPG Postmortem: Mistakes and Lessons
http://www.devmaster.net/articles/mmorpg-postmortem/part1.php

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Offline ClickerMonkey

JGO Coder


Medals: 20


Game Engineer


« Reply #63 - Posted 2008-05-05 23:53:21 »

I just read all those articles, that is definitely something that everyone needs to read...

Offline Eli Delventhal

JGO Kernel


Medals: 42
Projects: 11
Exp: 10 years


Game Engineer


« Reply #64 - Posted 2008-05-06 07:25:22 »

Yeah, great articles! Made me want to try out an MMORPG, actually.  Cool

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Offline noblemaster

JGO Ninja


Medals: 20
Projects: 10


Age of Conquest makes your day!


« Reply #65 - Posted 2008-05-06 07:37:35 »

Quote
Made me want to try out an MMORPG, actually.  Cool
Made me want to make an MMORPG! Haha, I am such a n00b  Grin

Offline Riven
« League of Dukes »

JGO Overlord


Medals: 801
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Exp: 16 years


Hand over your head.


« Reply #66 - Posted 2008-05-06 07:39:13 »

Let's all code a MMORPG!

Oh wait... we'd all fail Smiley

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Offline noblemaster

JGO Ninja


Medals: 20
Projects: 10


Age of Conquest makes your day!


« Reply #67 - Posted 2008-05-06 08:00:39 »

We could definitely make one - it's just going to look pretty ugly without any artists on board  Grin

Offline Riven
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« Reply #68 - Posted 2008-05-06 08:14:54 »

I think it's a common misconception that if you put a dozen competent guys together, they would squeeze out something good.

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Offline cylab

JGO Ninja


Medals: 50



« Reply #69 - Posted 2008-05-06 08:49:57 »

It's like nine woman working together can have a baby in one month  Roll Eyes

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Offline malberts

Junior Member





« Reply #70 - Posted 2008-05-06 09:14:46 »

Wow, all of this inspired me so much that ive decided to make a MMRLRPG (RL=real life). I'm going to build robots with advanced electronic neural networks (I'l use used car parts and cellotape to build them) and then they will be my evil minions and we can all join in on a wonderful free MMRLRPG. And best of all, it will be in full 3d. And I won't have to code an engine.

I'l keep everyone updated as I progress.

In space no-one can hear you System.out.println()
Offline noblemaster

JGO Ninja


Medals: 20
Projects: 10


Age of Conquest makes your day!


« Reply #71 - Posted 2008-05-06 09:17:38 »

Actually, there is actually a good chance we are already live in a computer simulation based on that interesting paper  Grin

ARE YOU LIVING IN A COMPUTER SIMULATION?
BY Nick Bostrom
http://www.simulation-argument.com/simulation.html

Offline malberts

Junior Member





« Reply #72 - Posted 2008-05-06 09:34:30 »

Yeah I have thought about that before.

Here's the scenario: suppose our knowledge of cybernetics and AI have evolved to completeness. Then it would be possible for me to activate the nano electrodes in by brain to simulate a new life but I can program the program to make my simulation "me" unaware of the fact that it's only a simulation. So even if I sit here right now thinking about it, I could have been programmed to not know if this is a simulation.

And here's a semi-proof on why its impossible to find a reason for existence except merely because existence is a concept in an infinite number of concepts:
Suppose we have a universal set U which is infinite in size/content. Then you will be able to make an infinite number of subsets from U. Now suppose one subset E contains certain elements (such as what we now call laws of nature) that allows us to exist. So now we exist, and we want to know why. But within our subset we are only aware of what else is in the subset, and eventually we'll figure out how our subset works. But we can never know what exists beyond our subset because we are only aware of whats in our subset. So essentially we cannot define a reason for the existence of our subset from our knowledge of our subset's content.

Here's a simple example:
U={1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9}
E={2,3,5,7}
Now clearly E is a subset containing only primes, but you can only see this if you look from U to E. You cannot look from E to U because from E's point of view only its own content exist. So you can never from the context of E alone say why E exist, except because it can.

But I have a problem with my robots MMRLRPG. I don't know how to remove car parts, can anyone help? But I do know how to cellotape though.

In space no-one can hear you System.out.println()
Offline Riven
« League of Dukes »

JGO Overlord


Medals: 801
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Exp: 16 years


Hand over your head.


« Reply #73 - Posted 2008-05-06 10:36:14 »

What if you programmed yourself to experience this simulation, in which you unknowingly of you being already programmed, decide to program yourself to live in another simulation.

Q: How many nested simulations can your brain handle?


Feel free to elaborate.

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Offline malberts

Junior Member





« Reply #74 - Posted 2008-05-06 11:04:24 »

Well the brain wouldn't be doing the simulation, a computer would be doing it by sending signals to the sensory neurons. So it would be a matter of how much memory that super computer has. The computer's memory would roughly be equal to the size of the entire universe if we managed to store information in such a atomic (or smaller) scale.

So the simulations will go on until the entire universe is filled with simulations. This would be implemented with a stack.

The brain can only be aware of one simulation at a time because multiple sets of senses could be compared to having a special set of glasses, earphones, etc. that sends some info from a different location together with what you sense where you are now. You would go insane pretty soon.

Now that I think about this, if the universe expands infinitely then I will never return to my original me because the simulations will go on infinitely, unless simulations are made quicker than the expansion of the universe. In which case I'd eventually have to return because there would be an out of memory error.

In space no-one can hear you System.out.println()
Offline Riven
« League of Dukes »

JGO Overlord


Medals: 801
Projects: 4
Exp: 16 years


Hand over your head.


« Reply #75 - Posted 2008-05-06 11:44:13 »

I assume you volunteer to cellotape it all together.

Beware of the OutOfUniverseError followed by a BlackholeUnderflowException


Ontopic:
Shall we develop a MMORPG where the sole quest is to build a MMORPG?




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Offline malberts

Junior Member





« Reply #76 - Posted 2008-05-06 11:53:06 »

Excellent idea. Let's start out with an engine that simulates an engine simulator. And we'll need an artist who can draw pictures of pictures drawing pictures. A storyteller capable of telling a story of storytelling would be advisable too.

In space no-one can hear you System.out.println()
Offline Orangy Tang

JGO Kernel


Medals: 56
Projects: 11


Monkey for a head


« Reply #77 - Posted 2008-05-06 12:06:53 »

Excellent idea. Let's start out with an engine that simulates an engine simulator. And we'll need an artist who can draw pictures of pictures drawing pictures.

Something like this? http://www.worldofescher.com/gallery/A13.html Grin

[ TriangularPixels.com - Play Growth Spurt, Rescue Squad and Snowman Village ] [ Rebirth - game resource library ]
Offline malberts

Junior Member





« Reply #78 - Posted 2008-05-06 12:15:24 »

Hehe I almost thought that was going to be a link of a MMORPG where the aim is to make a MMORPG.

Those hands are more a representation of a loop than what I was thinking about. When I say pictures drawing pictures I mean that the artist would draw, say, a person. Then that person would have to be able to draw in the game so that it can draw new pictures for the game it is creating. So basically the picture should have the physical ability to draw any other picture.

In space no-one can hear you System.out.println()
Offline Riven
« League of Dukes »

JGO Overlord


Medals: 801
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Exp: 16 years


Hand over your head.


« Reply #79 - Posted 2008-05-06 12:32:13 »

I fear you'd first need to finish that alternate-world simulator and not debug it too well for that to happen.

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Offline malberts

Junior Member





« Reply #80 - Posted 2008-05-06 13:03:20 »

I fear you'd first need to finish that alternate-world simulator and not debug it too well for that to happen.

I don't care what you think, if you don't want to help me then I'll look somewhere else. I just thought someone here would have the experience to help me.

Maybe I should look for help in a HTML forum. I'm sure those guys will know more.

In space no-one can hear you System.out.println()
Offline Riven
« League of Dukes »

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Medals: 801
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Exp: 16 years


Hand over your head.


« Reply #81 - Posted 2008-05-06 13:29:30 »

Quote
I don't care what you think

I hope nobody hears you flush() in space.

Hi, appreciate more people! Σ ♥ = ¾
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Offline malberts

Junior Member





« Reply #82 - Posted 2008-05-06 13:36:03 »

Well you could always come and gc() before I have the need to flush().

In space no-one can hear you System.out.println()
Offline Eli Delventhal

JGO Kernel


Medals: 42
Projects: 11
Exp: 10 years


Game Engineer


« Reply #83 - Posted 2008-05-06 16:37:59 »

I think all this method-talking discussion should close() by now.

Also, I think I could make an MMORPG with not too many sweat and tears. A fun and balanced MMORPG is a slightly different venture. I mean, I understand all the underlying technology, I just don't have enough motivation or dedication to the idea. Looks like the EL guy linked in that article put his entire life on hold in order to make the MMORPG. Not interested!

See my work:
OTC Software
Offline malberts

Junior Member





« Reply #84 - Posted 2008-05-06 17:40:36 »

Something that I wonder about is why almost everyone wants to make an MMORPG or similar, especially for their first project.

What's the psychology behind wanting to make a different mmorpg from those that already exist? Is what you expect from an mmorpg really so much different from what they offer? Or do people want to start out with an mmo because there's less content to make? Since mmo's are usually open-ended they don't need to have a real story?

I have to agree with Varg of Burzum fame when he asked why everyone wants to make their own music (especially if they're just going to copy something existing and not add anything new or interesting). It's the same for games. Everyone wants a piece of the pie, but not many people really bring something innovating to the table. People should rather make interesting shorter games. I'd rather read a lot of well-done short stories than read a bunch of duplicated, long-winded novels.

In space no-one can hear you System.out.println()
Offline Riven
« League of Dukes »

JGO Overlord


Medals: 801
Projects: 4
Exp: 16 years


Hand over your head.


« Reply #85 - Posted 2008-05-06 18:31:38 »

Quote
Something that I wonder about is why almost everyone wants to make an MMORPG or similar, especially for their first project.

I think the problem is that the game-mechanics of a MMORPG actually seem trivial to implement:
 - have your character walk around a bit,
 - click on an item to interact
 - have some inventory with items
 - combine some items to create new items

it's easy! way easier than MMO-pacman, because MMO-pacman requires an AI for the ghosts and walls in perfectly designed levels, and actually making it easier for the 'thingy' to round corners, because you don't want to be a pixel off and be blocked by a wall. Oh what a daunting task, the frustration, the lack of players! No, a MMORPG sounds much more attractive, it's much easier to balance, because players build their own world, so everything will balance itself, and everybody wants to pay, no such luck with MMO-pacman.

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Offline malberts

Junior Member





« Reply #86 - Posted 2008-05-06 18:48:04 »

True. Pixel detection is so very difficult. I'd rather go with an OverlyMMO text adventure with 3d text.

In space no-one can hear you System.out.println()
Offline g666

Junior Member





« Reply #87 - Posted 2008-05-06 20:40:03 »

lets build the matrix Smiley

desperately seeking sanity
Offline malberts

Junior Member





« Reply #88 - Posted 2008-05-06 21:00:43 »

g666, you are already in one. But you can build a matrix simulation if you want, I'll release my MMRLRPG UniverseEngine as open source (it should fit into Jupiter) and you can use that.

In space no-one can hear you System.out.println()
Offline noblemaster

JGO Ninja


Medals: 20
Projects: 10


Age of Conquest makes your day!


« Reply #89 - Posted 2008-05-06 21:14:24 »

I see, we are finally getting somewhere!  Grin

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