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  Create a space to submit and to launch Java webstartable games  (Read 38222 times)
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Offline jezek2
« Reply #90 - Posted 2008-05-28 19:43:06 »

That is why I avoid providing only a JAR file... but I can't force all the developers to use a single technology.
I have asked one of my friends to see the website and to test the games. He is really ill at ease with computers... What was his first reflex? Clicking on the image. What did he expect? Play. The problem is that if I put a button "Play" whereas some authors don't want me to use direct links, the users will expect to be able to play immediately and sometimes they will access to the game's website but they will have to find the other button or link to play, it is not really logical, you click on "Play" but you have to click another time somewhere else to play. The problem is almost the same with the principle of "click on the image to play" but it is worse with a button called "Play" as you announce something that you don't provide immediately.
Imagine that then I don't display the button "Play" when I don't have a direct link. Is it simple for the users to understand that sometimes he can click on "Play" to play and sometimes I need to go to the game's website to play???

Good point. What about adding overlay image with "play" or "visit homepage" icons (like youtube do for starting videos) to distinguish the operations? It could be small icon in bottom right or something like that. I suppose most of games will allow link directly anyway.
Offline TheAnalogKid

JGO Coder


Projects: 2



« Reply #91 - Posted 2008-05-28 19:49:11 »

+1  Smiley

I really like this idea. It fulfills all the needs we're discussing.

Offline gouessej
« Reply #92 - Posted 2008-05-28 19:53:55 »

Good point. What about adding overlay image with "play" or "visit homepage" icons (like youtube do for starting videos) to distinguish the operations? It could be small icon in bottom right or something like that. I suppose most of games will allow link directly anyway.
Good idea but I hope you're right about the direct link.

On the other hand, the system that counts hit is ready. Please don't cheat, there is no fun... I have not clicked on my own game, I have clicked on Bloodridge for the tests.

Finally, Incredibuilder! has been updated and Snowman Village has been removed. A robot tried to add something according to the traces in the database.

Games published by our own members! Check 'em out!
Legends of Yore - The Casual Retro Roguelike
Offline noblemaster

JGO Ninja


Medals: 20
Projects: 10


Age of Conquest makes your day!


« Reply #93 - Posted 2008-05-28 20:21:24 »

I am still working on the site layout and design. Please bare with me! I am fully aware that the site currently looks ugly. The goal is to come up with something as good or nicer as heavygames/gametunnel, it's just going to take some more time. Sorry...  Grin   

We will also address the other issues (direct linking, image scaling, spacing...) in time. All games that we linked to without permission will be removed. Sorry if we caused you any troubles.

@gouessej: let's store properly scaled thumbnail images for each game in the database. How about 100x80px?

Offline Orangy Tang

JGO Kernel


Medals: 56
Projects: 11


Monkey for a head


« Reply #94 - Posted 2008-05-28 21:07:06 »

Finally, Incredibuilder! has been updated and Snowman Village has been removed.

Ta.

[ TriangularPixels.com - Play Growth Spurt, Rescue Squad and Snowman Village ] [ Rebirth - game resource library ]
Offline gouessej
« Reply #95 - Posted 2008-05-28 21:10:38 »

Ta.
What does it mean? I did what you wanted.

I am still working on the site layout and design. Please bare with me! I am fully aware that the site currently looks ugly. The goal is to come up with something as good or nicer as heavygames/gametunnel, it's just going to take some more time. Sorry...  Grin   

We will also address the other issues (direct linking, image scaling, spacing...) in time. All games that we linked to without permission will be removed. Sorry if we caused you any troubles.

@gouessej: let's store properly scaled thumbnail images for each game in the database. How about 100x80px?
I will contact the authors of the games but currently, only one asked me to remove his game and that's done.

I can't make a decision now about the size of the image, I should have a better idea of the design before.

Offline SimonH
« Reply #96 - Posted 2008-05-28 23:39:26 »

What does it mean?
'Ta' is a short form of 'Thank You'.

Julien, mon vieil ami, pourquoi êtes-vous si sensible? Laissez-nous être tous les amis!

People make games and games make people
Offline gouessej
« Reply #97 - Posted 2008-05-29 05:11:36 »

'Ta' is a short form of 'Thank You'.

Julien, mon vieil ami, pourquoi êtes-vous si sensible? Laissez-nous être tous les amis!

Ok fine thanks.

As you know, I have added the system to count hit for each game yesterday evening and now I discover that there have been about 200 hits!! Bloodridge is 1st, TUER is 2nd ax eaquo with IncrediBuilder and the dark monastery.

Offline noblemaster

JGO Ninja


Medals: 20
Projects: 10


Age of Conquest makes your day!


« Reply #98 - Posted 2008-05-29 09:27:51 »

I spent some time working on the interface. Let me know what you think so far?


Note: do not get too excited about those page hits, it's probably just me  Grin

Offline kevglass

JGO Kernel


Medals: 164
Projects: 23
Exp: 18 years


Coder, Trainee Pixel Artist, Game Reviewer


« Reply #99 - Posted 2008-05-29 10:34:53 »

Looks pretty good to me. The title bar is maybe a bit heavy. Look forward to seeing it live Smiley

Kev

Games published by our own members! Check 'em out!
Legends of Yore - The Casual Retro Roguelike
Offline gouessej
« Reply #100 - Posted 2008-05-29 11:41:02 »

Looks pretty good to me. The title bar is maybe a bit heavy. Look forward to seeing it live Smiley

Kev
Be patient as we will modify this template and it requires some time to implement it.

Offline Bonbon-Chan

JGO Coder


Medals: 12



« Reply #101 - Posted 2008-05-29 12:45:44 »

I like the look. Well there is only 2 things that I should change :
- Tux : it give me the felling that it is a Linux site. Well, we don't have mascot for java game...
- left menu order : since most of the visitors should be gamers, the menu should be Categorie -> Changes -> Rate -> Submit
Offline TheAnalogKid

JGO Coder


Projects: 2



« Reply #102 - Posted 2008-05-29 13:21:57 »

Quote
I spent some time working on the interface. Let me know what you think so far?
It looks really good kingaschi!  Smiley The title bar is bit plain/boring in my opinion. Have some originality? I mean something related to gaming. Why not having a title bar and logo contest? No prize, just for the sake of having something cool.

And about Duke I think you should make sure that you have the rights to display it. Maybe there's no problem with that but I don't know.

Offline noblemaster

JGO Ninja


Medals: 20
Projects: 10


Age of Conquest makes your day!


« Reply #103 - Posted 2008-05-29 18:26:33 »

Quote
The title bar is bit plain/boring in my opinion. Have some originality? I mean something related to gaming. Why not having a title bar and logo contest? No prize, just for the sake of having something cool.
You are correct, the title bar is somewhat plain! I am thinking about keeping the 3D style but replace the duke image/etc. with something more game-related! I was planning to get someone from DeviantArt to create something more fun/game-looking. Nevertheless, yes, let's have a contest! I am little bit worried about the contest here, because after all, we are mostly programmers not artists!  Grin

OK then - please email me or post your logos here! Thanks  Tongue

Quote
Tux : it give me the felling that it is a Linux site. Well, we don't have mascot for java game...
Are you referring to the Duke picture?   Grin

Offline noblemaster

JGO Ninja


Medals: 20
Projects: 10


Age of Conquest makes your day!


« Reply #104 - Posted 2008-05-29 18:33:26 »

Also, I was thinking about using icons for different game categories etc. Anyone has a suggestion where to get some good looking ones from?

Offline TheAnalogKid

JGO Coder


Projects: 2



« Reply #105 - Posted 2008-05-29 18:39:38 »

Take a look at Kev's website: http://www.cokeandcode.com/jgdresources

It contains a lot of useful website links for game resources.

Offline gouessej
« Reply #106 - Posted 2008-05-29 19:20:31 »

I notice some people replaced the binary URL by the game's website URL. Even though I accepted these updates, I think it is very annoying for the users to have different possible reactions when clicking onto an image! I encourage people not to do that! I will add a button to go directly to the homepage as I said but please remove the deep link only if you have an excellent reason to do that, think about the users at first. I thought that the proposition of adding a button to go to the homepage would be enough. Therefore, what should I do? Do you still want this button or will you go on removing the deep links?

Offline gouessej
« Reply #107 - Posted 2008-05-30 05:05:54 »

Hi!

Some people use the update system as unlogged user in order to insult me. If it goes on, I will authorize only the logged users to update information about the games. I precise that I can investigate to know exactly who did this (but I don't want to waste my time in doing this). If someone has something against me, it is better to speak about it together than posting an update with www.youareanidiot.com. An idiot doesn't create a website to promote Java gaming with the helps of 2 other people.

Offline gouessej
« Reply #108 - Posted 2008-05-30 16:12:37 »

Ok,  I'll respond here for the last time:

I have no problem with this, how could I?  I don't run your site!  I think that you supporting the WORA model is fantastic.  Again no issues there.  I was not referring to your TOU for JGT and, after reading your TUER site, I completely understand your motivation.  No issues there.  Oh, and I am pretty sure I remember the WORA mantra Wink
Many have suggested this, including myself.  It comes down to a matter of time and attention.
I can see how you may have read this as a threat, but that was not my intention and I apologize if it came across that way.  What do you think I should do about offering promotion to those that don't fit the JGT model?

If we promoted people that do not fit your model, how does that ruin your work?  I love the idea of the JGT and support your efforts there.  But, to your point, it does not fit everyone.

Again, there was no threat to you, so please don't use that term.  As for "lessons" on how to behave, I am not alone in the belief that you have been more argumentative and insulting to some members here. I appreciate your passion for Java and the support you give.  I respectfully ask that you tone down the insulting nature of some of your posts, that's all.

Yes, it, in fact, does.  There are many reasons to use Java to develop games.  WORA is just one reason, but not the only one.

No reason to stop what it is you are doing.  No one, especially me, wants to see that happen.  My previous question about the gallery was not to derail your efforts.  Keep going!

Agreed.  Now that we are in agreement, let's try to keep the discussion helpful, constructive and respectful of the community.  Fair?

-Chris

Ok. But I have never wanted to offend Windows users, I've made some efforts to allow my game to work under Vista, I had to rewrite the menus.

On the other point, instead of "punishing" everyone, I will implement a finer solution to prevent some bad guys from posting insults on the Tome. I would like to give another possibility:
- an author could choose whether someone else than him could be authorized to submit updates on his game.
What do you think about it?

Offline dishmoth
« Reply #109 - Posted 2008-05-30 19:17:36 »

Hi, gouessej.

Regarding the issue of Java games that run only on one platform, I have a suggestion.

If you remember, a few months ago you were very kind in helping me fix a bug in my game that meant the full-screen mode did not work under Linux.  Since I don't have access to a Linux machine it would've been almost impossible for me to fix the bug without your help.  And even with your patient help, I found it very difficult and demoralizing trying to debug the game remotely, and I came very close to giving up and leaving the full-screen mode as a Windows-only feature of the game.

My suggestion is, for JGT, could you consider a game that only runs on one platform as simply being bugged? 

As I understand it, JGT does include games that are incomplete (the "incubator" area, I think you've referred to it as).  So could single-platform games be included in JGT, but treated as bugged/incomplete projects?  In most cases, I believe that the game's author would make the game work on all platforms if only they had access to the appropriate hardware/OS for debugging it on.

As I say, just a suggestion.  What do you think?

Simon

Offline gouessej
« Reply #110 - Posted 2008-05-30 19:47:16 »

Hi, gouessej.

Regarding the issue of Java games that run only on one platform, I have a suggestion.

If you remember, a few months ago you were very kind in helping me fix a bug in my game that meant the full-screen mode did not work under Linux.  Since I don't have access to a Linux machine it would've been almost impossible for me to fix the bug without your help.  And even with your patient help, I found it very difficult and demoralizing trying to debug the game remotely, and I came very close to giving up and leaving the full-screen mode as a Windows-only feature of the game.

My suggestion is, for JGT, could you consider a game that only runs on one platform as simply being bugged? 

As I understand it, JGT does include games that are incomplete (the "incubator" area, I think you've referred to it as).  So could single-platform games be included in JGT, but treated as bugged/incomplete projects?  In most cases, I believe that the game's author would make the game work on all platforms if only they had access to the appropriate hardware/OS for debugging it on.

As I say, just a suggestion.  What do you think?

Simon

Yes, I hesitated in suggesting this but they will have to respect 5 conditions:
- they will stay in the incubator until this limitation is removed
- they won't enter into the incubator if the author doesn't engage to remove this limitation (if the author says that he won't port his game to any other platform)
- they will have the right to stay in the incubator for a limited amount of time, maybe some months
- they will be marked as non cross-platform, not buggy as it is not exactly the same thing
- they will appear after other non finished games because it is not fair to mix them with games that are really cross-platform

Offline gouessej
« Reply #111 - Posted 2008-05-31 08:43:31 »

Hi!

As Orangy Tang suggested, I will contact systematically the authors before adding new games. If they all agree, 5 very good games will be added soon, 2 of them in the incubator.

Offline dishmoth
« Reply #112 - Posted 2008-05-31 09:14:06 »

Yes, I hesitated in suggesting this but they will have to respect 5 conditions:
- they will stay in the incubator until this limitation is removed
- they won't enter into the incubator if the author doesn't engage to remove this limitation (if the author says that he won't port his game to any other platform)
- they will have the right to stay in the incubator for a limited amount of time, maybe some months
- they will be marked as non cross-platform, not buggy as it is not exactly the same thing
- they will appear after other non finished games because it is not fair to mix them with games that are really cross-platform

That seems reasonable.

Might I suggest though for your third point that "some months" is likely to be a very tight restriction for a lot of people.  Most of us don't work nearly as fast as you do!  For me, a few months can go by without me typing a single line of Java, and for people who like to work on several projects simultaneously it's easy to imagine some projects being "on hold" for a year or more.  It would be a pity to see games that are incomplete (for whatever reason) being removed from JGT simply because their authors don't work fast enough.

Simon

Offline gouessej
« Reply #113 - Posted 2008-05-31 11:04:13 »

That seems reasonable.

Might I suggest though for your third point that "some months" is likely to be a very tight restriction for a lot of people.  Most of us don't work nearly as fast as you do!  For me, a few months can go by without me typing a single line of Java, and for people who like to work on several projects simultaneously it's easy to imagine some projects being "on hold" for a year or more.  It would be a pity to see games that are incomplete (for whatever reason) being removed from JGT simply because their authors don't work fast enough.

Simon
You're right but there is no perfect solution. It is complicated to find the best duration. If we authorize non cross-platform games to stay a year in the incubator for example, it will fit into situations of developers working in several projects and who really want to drive their games cross-platform but it will be a problem as some developers may decide silently not to port their games even though they had said they would do it. It is an important problem and it is why it is still hard to decide whether and how we could allow non cross-platform games on the JGT.

Don't forget that we might create "templates" to help developers to drive their games cross-platform. The problem you had is very easy to solve and we could put it into a "template" or into a sheet of recommendation. This sheet could contain some advices to avoid problems on certain platforms, for example:
- fullscreen mode (use software fullscreen mode under Linux rather than exclusive fullscreen mode)
- sound (check which channels are available)
- MouseEvent.isPopupTrigger() (call it both in mousePressed() and mouseReleased())
- "xset r off" and "xset r on" to disable and re-enable auto-repeat under Linux
- use ODEjava instead of calling directly ODE's DLL through the JNI
- idem for FMOD, DevIL, OpenGL of course, OpenAL, Bullet...
- use JNA/JNI in the worst case for each platform

Finally, lots of problem may be simply avoided. The maximum time such a game could stay in the incubator will fit into the situation of the project. I think that there are only a few games that will be really concerned by this option. Most of the games on java-gaming.org work under the 3 main families of operating system but you're right to speak about this. I remember that even TUER had been incompatible with Vista during about 3 months and it had been very hard to solve this problem. The menu had worked very badly under Windows in general during some months too, I had had to rewrite it entirely (whereas there was no problem under Linux).

Offline kevglass

JGO Kernel


Medals: 164
Projects: 23
Exp: 18 years


Coder, Trainee Pixel Artist, Game Reviewer


« Reply #114 - Posted 2008-05-31 11:21:12 »

Is it a problem if the author has no intention of supporting Windows, Linux or OSX, and that it happens rather by coincidence than intention? So, for instance, if a devout linux enthusiast should write a game and not have any intention of making it work on OSX, if it just happens to is that ok by JGT? I mean if bugs did come up in certain versions of OSX the chances are the author wouldn't bother fixing though the game would appear to work on OSX in most cases but not really.

Also, does it matter what the performance is on the different platforms. For instance, the majority of those software 2D games that are listed run very very slowly on my Mac. Does this discount them?

Last thing, have the existing (100?) games been tested on all three platforms? I hadn't realised that was part of the JGT remit until recently.

Kev

Offline dishmoth
« Reply #115 - Posted 2008-05-31 12:00:17 »

You're right but there is no perfect solution. It is complicated to find the best duration. If we authorize non cross-platform games to stay a year in the incubator for example, it will fit into situations of developers working in several projects and who really want to drive their games cross-platform but it will be a problem as some developers may decide silently not to port their games even though they had said they would do it. It is an important problem and it is why it is still hard to decide whether and how we could allow non cross-platform games on the JGT.

Perhaps as well as an "incubation" area there could be a "cryogenics" area for incomplete projects that have been abandoned or on hold for more than a year?  Such projects would probably still be of interest to other Java developers, even though their appeal to a more general audience would be limited.
Simon

Offline gouessej
« Reply #116 - Posted 2008-05-31 12:21:49 »

Perhaps as well as an "incubation" area there could be a "cryogenics" area for incomplete projects that have been abandoned or on hold for more than a year?  Such projects would probably still be of interest to other Java developers, even though their appeal to a more general audience would be limited.
Simon
Yes but the "cryogenics", as other sections, must not be used to bypass one of the rule of JGT about the cross-platform ability. If a game enter the JGT and is never ported to the 3 main families of OS, it would have benefited of the JGT without respecting the rules.

Offline gouessej
« Reply #117 - Posted 2008-05-31 16:22:31 »

Is it a problem if the author has no intention of supporting Windows, Linux or OSX, and that it happens rather by coincidence than intention? So, for instance, if a devout linux enthusiast should write a game and not have any intention of making it work on OSX, if it just happens to is that ok by JGT? I mean if bugs did come up in certain versions of OSX the chances are the author wouldn't bother fixing though the game would appear to work on OSX in most cases but not really.

Also, does it matter what the performance is on the different platforms. For instance, the majority of those software 2D games that are listed run very very slowly on my Mac. Does this discount them?

Last thing, have the existing (100?) games been tested on all three platforms? I hadn't realised that was part of the JGT remit until recently.

Kev
I personally test each game under Linux, Elijah is under Mac and Christoph is under Windows as far as I know. If the game works under these 3 families of operating system, by intention or coincidence, it allows to enter the JGT. The author MUST do his best to keep the game cross-platform. If this cross-platform compatibility is broken, the game will be put into the incubator until this limitation is removed. Now I don't know what we will do if a programmer refuses to ensure this compliance only for certain versions of MacOSX, it is not a simple case. If the bug comes from the operating system and there is no way to find a workaround in the used APIs, maybe we would tolerate it but if the bug comes from the OS and can be "fixed" easily through Java (for example the exclusive fullscreen mode under Linux), be sure that his game will go into the incubator.

I remind you that TUER and lots of 3D games work very slowly with the first version of ATI driver under Windows with the chip ATI XPress 200M. The bug comes from the driver, there is no way to fix it except using the second version of the driver. Do you know why they work so slowly on your Mac? Which version do you use? Please give me some details about your graphical configuration and the JVM you use. It does not discount these games but I hope only a few people encounter this problem.

My younger brother tested almost (about 95) all the games under Windows XP and I tested ALL the games. I'm so sad, I have not added some very beautiful games because of bug, I think about Blastian, a fantastic shoot'em up but the available version was too much buggy and the author doesn't answer my emails, there was another fantastic 3D race game with exceptional graphics but after 10 tries, I couldn't have the focus... I don't know how much games have been tested under MacOSX. Only 2 friends of mine can test them and they didn't send me any bug reports. Nevertheless, I will add 5 new games in a week, I need to find someone else under Mac to test them before adding them. Could you do this for me if I send you the list?

Finally, a bug has been fixed. Now, all hits are taken into account even in the "view info" page.

Who would be interested in helping me to create a short movie with some sequences of each game on the Tome?

Offline Bonbon-Chan

JGO Coder


Medals: 12



« Reply #118 - Posted 2008-06-01 10:58:50 »

I just discover that i have one of my game on the JGT  Grin.

So I wanted to modify the page "Khumea" (i want to change the screenshot) but I didn't find out how I do this... (I created an account and loged in).

By the way, I alway creates 2 images for my screenshot :
- 128 x 128px : http://www.bonbonchan.net/gallerie/small/29.jpg
- fullsize : http://www.bonbonchan.net/gallerie/big/29.jpg

So it may be good to store 2 URL for images even if we use only one.
Offline gouessej
« Reply #119 - Posted 2008-06-01 11:20:53 »

I just discover that i have one of my game on the JGT  Grin.

So I wanted to modify the page "Khumea" (i want to change the screenshot) but I didn't find out how I do this... (I created an account and loged in).

By the way, I alway creates 2 images for my screenshot :
- 128 x 128px : http://www.bonbonchan.net/gallerie/small/29.jpg
- fullsize : http://www.bonbonchan.net/gallerie/big/29.jpg

So it may be good to store 2 URL for images even if we use only one.
Under your screenshot, there is a section called "Update Info". I hope you agree with the addition of your game on the Tome. I'm going to update the small screenshot now. It is not yet possible to provide 2 images.

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