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  Crysis and sales...  (Read 6848 times)
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Offline appel

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« Posted 2008-01-21 03:23:32 »

I finished playing Crysis this weekend. Needless to say it's a great game and obvious that a huge effort has been put into creating this awesome piece of masterpiece.

I read the wikipedia article about Crysis, and I noticed this in the "Sales" section:
"As of January 7, 2008 about 144,000 copies were sold globally"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crysis


Compare that to Halo 3 sales:
"As of January 3, 2008, Halo 3 has sold 8.1 million copies"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halo_3


Makes me wonder  Roll Eyes

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Offline g666

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« Reply #1 - Posted 2008-01-21 08:52:47 »

perhaps because you need super hardware to play crysis?

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Offline cylab

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« Reply #2 - Posted 2008-01-21 09:46:50 »

I hope this will increase, since they need to sell at least a million copies to break even...

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Online princec

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« Reply #3 - Posted 2008-01-21 10:14:23 »

Fools should have done a bit of market research before they started coding... a shame but inevitable.

Cas Smiley

Offline appel

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« Reply #4 - Posted 2008-01-21 10:42:28 »

I hope this will increase, since they need to sell at least a million copies to break even...

Usually most copies are sold early after the game is released, I can imagine. I doubt this will increase dramatically.

Kinda makes me wonder if we'll see more cutting-edge tech games like this again.

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Offline jfelrod1960

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« Reply #5 - Posted 2008-01-21 13:11:40 »

Fools should have done a bit of market research before they started coding... a shame but inevitable.

Cas Smiley

I disagree Cas if you are referring to the superior hardware comment.  I have a PC that cost just a little more than $1000.  Intel Core Duo, 3GB Ram, Nviida 8500 card and Crysis plays great on my machine.

Crysis don't have the history behind it like Halo does and haven't had a chance to generate that kind of following.  I imagine when Halo first came out and was new, it didn't get the kind of sales that Crysis is getting now.  I think IMHO, that the Crysis team did well.  They are going to have to wait just like most new games.

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Offline Mr_Light

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« Reply #6 - Posted 2008-01-21 14:06:40 »

Usually most copies are sold early after the game is released, I can imagine. I doubt this will increase dramatically.

I don't know pc games sold today have a big premium on 'just released' items.

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Offline fletchergames

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« Reply #7 - Posted 2008-01-21 14:42:41 »

Usually, the price drops alot as time passes.  I never buy games right when the come out any more.

I suspect that the reduction in price would have more of an effect on sales than the reduction in the number of copies sold.  Indie games usually sell slowly over a long period of time, whereas mainstream games might sell alot of copies early on.

I buy them for $5-$15 plus shipping on Amazon.com.  Or I buy indie games, which usually cost no more than $20.
Offline tortoise

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« Reply #8 - Posted 2008-01-21 16:39:59 »

Crysis don't have the history behind it like Halo does and haven't had a chance to generate that kind of following.  I imagine when Halo first came out and was new, it didn't get the kind of sales that Crysis is getting now. 

Halo sold extremely well as soon as it was released. It was *the* game at the time. MS and Bungie did an excellent job hyping it.


Crysis's real problem is it's a PC game. PC games are rapidly becoming niche. It's no wonder most developers now write their games with ports to 360/PS3 in mind. Or just go straight to the consoles and skip the PC step altogether.
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« Reply #9 - Posted 2008-01-21 16:56:55 »

Couple of points: the PC market has not shrunk; it's no more niche now than it ever was.

Secondly, a $1000 machine which you fairly recently bought represents about 5% of the potential market; the vast majority of machines actually out there are 3-4 years old. Meaning, about a quarter of the processing power, typically. Meaning, Crysis has no chance.

Cas Smiley

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Offline Abuse

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« Reply #10 - Posted 2008-01-21 17:32:00 »

Couple of points: the PC market has not shrunk; it's no more niche now than it ever was.

Secondly, a $1000 machine which you fairly recently bought represents about 5% of the potential market; the vast majority of machines actually out there are 3-4 years old. Meaning, about a quarter of the processing power, typically. Meaning, Crysis has no chance.

Cas Smiley

My (now retired) GF6800GT & Athlon64 3000 runs Crysis ok @ min. detail, that machine is ~3 years old. (6800 - May05, cpu & mobo. Nov04).

I don't think much can be learnt from comparing Halo3 & Crysis in terms of total sales, they are 2 completely different enterprises.
All it says to me, is that mediocre games can be very successful on consoles, where as a PC title has to excel for it to stand a chance.

Does anyone have the PC sales for Halo3? I believe that would support my hypothesis.

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Offline Orangy Tang

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« Reply #11 - Posted 2008-01-21 17:52:28 »

Does anyone have the PC sales for Halo3? I believe that would support my hypothesis.
Halo 3 isn't out on PC, and given how long it took to get Halo 2 on PC I don't think you'll be seeing it for at least a couple of years. Both Halo 1 and 2 have been terribly ported to PC anyway - abysmal performance and bad control handling make them not worth bothering.

Personally I found the Crysis demo boring (after the first five minute wow factor of the graphics on high). Maybe if they had produced a game worth playing then more people would have bought it. Tongue

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Offline cylab

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« Reply #12 - Posted 2008-01-21 18:12:35 »

Personally I found the Crysis demo boring (after the first five minute wow factor of the graphics on high). Maybe if they had produced a game worth playing then more people would have bought it. Tongue

Smiley It may be personal taste, but I really liked crysis because of it's action-movie feeling. Gameplay was not that good as Half Live 2, but nevertheless definatly woth playing.

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Online princec

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« Reply #13 - Posted 2008-01-21 18:41:12 »

My (now retired) GF6800GT & Athlon64 3000 runs Crysis ok @ min. detail, that machine is ~3 years old. (6800 - May05, cpu & mobo. Nov04).
Someone correct me if I'm wrong but that machine was a beast when it came out; it's an even better spec than the ultra-bastard Deep Thought machine that I won from Sun 3 years ago which was the ultimate gaming rig even then. Most people don't have ultimate rigs, just middle-of-the-road stuff. I think you'll find a 3 year old machine is typically about half as powerful as what you had. Meaning Crysis is out about a year to 18 months early perhaps.

Cas Smiley

Offline erikd

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« Reply #14 - Posted 2008-01-21 19:43:06 »

I'll have to agree with Cas on this one. If you're creating a game for a niche market (gamers with top of the line hw), you'll get niche sales.
Maybe Crysis' hype machine also just failed, which doesn't help either.

It seems to me that there should be a good market for good, innovative, high production value games for PC's of 4 years old, even if they don't push the envelope so much in terms of numbers of polygons and such.

Offline appel

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« Reply #15 - Posted 2008-01-21 19:57:23 »

It seems to me that there should be a good market for good, innovative, high production value games for PC's of 4 years old, even if they don't push the envelope so much in terms of numbers of polygons and such.

Yea, those games are called "4 year old games"  Grin

But yes, unfortunatly, it is true. The market for cutting-edge-tech-games like Crysis is too small to make profit from.

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Offline erikd

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« Reply #16 - Posted 2008-01-21 20:17:02 »

Yea, those games are called "4 year old games"  Grin

LOL, smart-ass  Tongue

I guess my point is that innovation now mostly lies in technology rather than game play, perhaps because games are becoming more and more expensive to produce. Wouldn't there be a market for games targetting older hardware that innovate more in the gameplay department, trading the higher production costs of technologically cutting edge games for the (perhaps) increased risk of being different and innovative in gameplay?
After all, isn't Crysis 'just' a very pretty shooter? Might something like Crysis be a sign that we're up for something new?

Maybe it's just wishful thinking, but personally I'm rather getting bored with shooters that are just becoming more pretty but are otherwise of a tiring formula.

Online princec

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« Reply #17 - Posted 2008-01-21 21:12:36 »

The formula has barely changed since Doom. There have been some embellishments like Half-Life's story-based stuff with a few variations on the same basic set of weaponry and a few odds and sods, but mostly no innovation in gameplay at all. Sadly I haven't played Portal yet but I suspect that's about it for true innovation in the first person category.

Cas Smiley

Offline Orangy Tang

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« Reply #18 - Posted 2008-01-21 22:52:53 »

The formula has barely changed since Doom. There have been some embellishments like Half-Life's story-based stuff with a few variations on the same basic set of weaponry and a few odds and sods, but mostly no innovation in gameplay at all.

Oh shush. Tongue Halo added smart allies and seamless vehicle control. Halo 2 added dual wielding and further refined the "holy trinity" of gun/melee/grenades. Undying and Jedi Knight added a whole heap of additional powers and spells designed to be used at the same time as conventional weaponry. Half Life discarded the traditional cutscenes and intergrated them seamlessly into the gameplay. BioShock gives you a whole world to play in with loads of ways of disposing (or avoiding) your foes, as well as forcing you to make awkward moral choices. Metroid managed to intergrate traditional platform elements and a variety of visors to suit every occasion and keep you on your toes. Deus Ex added upgradable weapons, non-reversable character upgrades and abilities and a ridiculously interactive world. Theif added all sorts of stealth elements and ways to complete levels without even touching a single opponent.

Theres been a whole heap of new ideas and inovations for FPS games, and those are just the major ones I can remember off the top of my head.

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Offline Abuse

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« Reply #19 - Posted 2008-01-22 01:08:39 »

Oh shush. Tongue Halo added smart allies and seamless vehicle control. Halo 2 added dual wielding and further refined the "holy trinity" of gun/melee/grenades. Undying and Jedi Knight added a whole heap of additional powers and spells designed to be used at the same time as conventional weaponry. Half Life discarded the traditional cutscenes and intergrated them seamlessly into the gameplay. BioShock gives you a whole world to play in with loads of ways of disposing (or avoiding) your foes, as well as forcing you to make awkward moral choices. Metroid managed to intergrate traditional platform elements and a variety of visors to suit every occasion and keep you on your toes. Deus Ex added upgradable weapons, non-reversable character upgrades and abilities and a ridiculously interactive world. Theif added all sorts of stealth elements and ways to complete levels without even touching a single opponent.

Theres been a whole heap of new ideas and inovations for FPS games, and those are just the major ones I can remember off the top of my head.

Redfaction - deformable levels Grin
AvP - frightening? atmospheric lighting?

It's fair to say most 1st person shooters have 1 or 2 USPs.

If evolution of features is how a particular game genre evolves, then I'd say RTSs have evolved *far* less than FPSs.
What gameplay feature does C&C3(2007) have that Starcraft(1998) didn't?
shroud - check,
fog of war - check,
super-weapons - check,
unique units - check,
unit special abilities - check,
reliable path finding - check,
tunneling units - check,
solo missions - check,
air/ground distinction - check,
cargo units - check,
garrisonable structures, check,

I'm realy struggling to find *any* innovations in the last decade!  Shocked

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Online princec

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« Reply #20 - Posted 2008-01-22 01:33:26 »

I'm not sure I'd really call that stuff "innovation" in FPSs - it's just like "woo lets add MORE of this same stuff and make it upgradeable!" Spells are just another set of weapons and rarely had any fundamental gameplay changes; dual wielding is just having more weapons. Vehicles were a nice innovative addition that changed the way games worked. Character upgrades had been around since.. hm, System Shock? But they already existed in RPGs. Anyway, you only listed a handful of games and think just how many of the buggers have been released (often quietly and mediocrely). The ones you listed were of course the excellent ones that blended all their features together in a great and playable way. I think the Thief series was probably the most innovative, gameplay wise, as it totally removed the emphasis from weaponry and changed it all into timing and location. All of the others have the same basic formula - point, shoot, kill. That's what I'm getting at.

Cas Smiley

Offline tortoise

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« Reply #21 - Posted 2008-01-22 02:31:24 »

All of the others have the same basic formula - point, shoot, kill. That's what I'm getting at.

Why does it matter? Every shmup has the same basic formula: shoot, dodge. Platformer? Jump, kill, collect. Rpg? level up, sit through boring movies. Fighters? kill opponent. Sport? simulate sport. Racing? race a vehicle... on and on and on...

Every single genre can be reduced to a bare set of essentials (we do use the word "genre" for a reason). All that matters is if the games are engaging, quality and fun to play. And in that regard, the first person genre delivers in spades.
Offline phu004

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« Reply #22 - Posted 2008-01-22 03:46:33 »

The hardware requirement is ridiculous for this game,  that's why most of people around me don't buy it;
Offline Mr_Light

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« Reply #23 - Posted 2008-01-22 05:54:16 »

you mean halo copied that all from other games, you ment right?

innovation isn't everything polishness is where it at, have you looked at wow lately?

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Offline CommanderKeith
« Reply #24 - Posted 2008-01-22 07:48:37 »

Crysis's real problem is it's a PC game. PC games are rapidly becoming niche. It's no wonder most developers now write their games with ports to 360/PS3 in mind. Or just go straight to the consoles and skip the PC step altogether.

I agree, but I think pc games have always been a niche relative to console games, they're about a tenth as big in terms of sales. We discussed it in this thread:
http://www.java-gaming.org/forums/index.php?topic=15300.msg122012#msg122012

From that thread:

Here is an excerpt from Electronic Boutique's annual report.  They actually sell PC & console games that others publish so these figures are more reliable since they inculde all games made by all publishers that EB thinks will sell.  From page 3 of http://media.corporate-ir.net/media_files/irol/13/130125/2005AR2.pdf

Industry Background
According to NPD Group, Inc., a market research firm, the electronic game industry was an approximately
$11.5 billion market in the United States in 2005. Of this $11.5 billion market, approximately $10.5 billion was
attributable to video game products
, excluding sales of used video game products, and approximately $1.0 billion
was attributable to PC entertainment software
.

But the above 'video game products' probably includes the console hardware...

Offline Orangy Tang

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« Reply #25 - Posted 2008-01-22 09:52:51 »

I'm not sure I'd really call that stuff "innovation" in FPSs - it's just like "woo lets add MORE of this same stuff and make it upgradeable!" Spells are just another set of weapons and rarely had any fundamental gameplay changes; dual wielding is just having more weapons. Vehicles were a nice innovative addition that changed the way games worked. Character upgrades had been around since.. hm, System Shock? But they already existed in RPGs. Anyway, you only listed a handful of games and think just how many of the buggers have been released (often quietly and mediocrely). The ones you listed were of course the excellent ones that blended all their features together in a great and playable way. I think the Thief series was probably the most innovative, gameplay wise, as it totally removed the emphasis from weaponry and changed it all into timing and location. All of the others have the same basic formula - point, shoot, kill. That's what I'm getting at.

Cas Smiley
Ok, so replace Deus Ex with System Shock - it's still later than Doom (and IIRC made by most of the same people anyway).

As tortoise said, you're always going to be able to reduce a game to it's core concept and claim the rest is fluff, but that doesn't mean that it's not progressed any since Doom. And i've deliberately avoided games which have progressed outside of the standard FPS style - Gears Of War and Crackdown could be considered to be highly innovative FPS games since they rewrite some of the basic rules (particularly the control mechanism and how you traverse your environment). But  I suspect you'd say that they're "not FPS games any more because they're too different", which is silly.

Likewise, the sheer volume of crap games doesn't mean that the genre hasn't progressed. We've had shovel-loads of terrible, bland platformers, but that doesn't mean that the platforming genre hasn't progressed any between the original Mario and Mario Galaxy.

I'm tired of people claiming that theres no innovation in games any more, or that PC gaming is dying and holding up a few specific examples as if they're indicative of the whole industry. People have been saying this for years and it's just not true. Games are more varied and better than ever, damnit. Tongue


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Offline appel

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« Reply #26 - Posted 2008-01-22 10:35:11 »

Wouldn't there be a market for games targetting older hardware that innovate more in the gameplay department, trading the higher production costs of technologically cutting edge games for the (perhaps) increased risk of being different and innovative in gameplay?

I don't think anyone is willing to spend money on making games targeting older hardware; the dilemma is that nobody is willing to buy old-looking-games, but most of the computers are old hardware. It's a lose-lose situation :|

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Offline ryanm

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« Reply #27 - Posted 2008-01-22 10:50:41 »

[innovation] There is continuing innovation in FPS, but at the same time there seems to be a maddening amnesia that stops newer games building on it.
Witness Halo - the two-weapon limit and always available grenades and melee were -IMO- brilliant and refreshing additions to the genre. 3 years later in Half-Life 2 and I'm back to frantically scrollwheeling around in an improbably-large bag of ordinance for the appropriate weapon. Grenades (which, incidentally, are cleverly shaped to make it impossible to predict how they will bounce) and melee never get used in combat because you have to stop and think to select them. What's the matter Gordon? Too squeamish to lift your size 11 and stamp on that headcrab that's oh-so-slowly swivelling around at your feet? Duke Nukem was doing it 8 years ago.

It's happening again with cover systems - Rogue Trooper, Gears of War and RS:V have shown them to be a good thing, but COD4 still has you doing the shooting-from-cover shuffle, jinking left and right to try and find the angle that lets bullets past the invisible collision hull of whatever you're hiding behind.

[back to crysis] They can always hope to licence the engine. How did that work out for them last time? Were there any games using the Far cry engine?

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Offline oNyx

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« Reply #28 - Posted 2008-01-22 11:09:08 »

[...]3 years later in Half-Life 2 and I'm back to frantically scrollwheeling around in an improbably-large bag of ordinance for the appropriate weapon.[...]

I usually bind each weapon to a specific key. Scrollwheeling around is for newbies. Smiley

I really can't understand how one could play like this. If I need a specific weapon I want it as fast as possible and direct weapon binds are the only option for that. Also the learning curve is pretty flat. I use the same (associative) layout for all games... melee on x, peashooter on alt, shotgun-ish on f, rocket-ish on r, rail/beam-ish on q etc. Once I know what the weapon does I know the key it belongs to.

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Offline Abuse

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« Reply #29 - Posted 2008-01-22 11:44:54 »

I usually bind each weapon to a specific key. Scrollwheeling around is for newbies. Smiley

I really can't understand how one could play like this. If I need a specific weapon I want it as fast as possible and direct weapon binds are the only option for that. Also the learning curve is pretty flat. I use the same (associative) layout for all games... melee on x, peashooter on alt, shotgun-ish on f, rocket-ish on r, rail/beam-ish on q etc. Once I know what the weapon does I know the key it belongs to.

I used to do it like that in Q2, but gave up when games began to have 10+ weapons (or maybe when I stopped being a hardcore fps player....)
Infact, Q2 had an interesting scripting quirk, where-by you could bind 2 weapons to the same key (bind someKey "weapon 5;weapon 6"), which caused repeated presses to toggle between the 2 weapons. Very handy when you have finite keys, and multiple weapons with essencially the same function. I believe they fixed this particular 'feature' in Q3 onwards Sad

I'm more attracted to slower paced FPSs now, that's why I found Crysis appealing - much more so than Unreal 3.

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