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Offline appel

JGO Wizard


Medals: 49
Projects: 4


I always win!


« Posted 2007-11-25 13:14:30 »

[size=14pt]http://www.java4k.com[/size]  Grin

As it currently says, stay tuned! I'm working on the system right now, and it's going to be ready by Dec 1st (God I hope!!), at least I'm long way there.

Check out the 4K competition @ www.java4k.com
Check out GAMADU (my own site) @ http://gamadu.com/
Offline Morre

JGO Knight


Medals: 2
Projects: 10


I'm Dragonene on IRC.


« Reply #1 - Posted 2007-11-25 19:35:00 »

Brand new domain - awesome stuff! That logo though, the k is suppoed to be lowercase (as in kB), no? Smiley

Offline appel

JGO Wizard


Medals: 49
Projects: 4


I always win!


« Reply #2 - Posted 2007-11-25 23:36:32 »

K is uppercase.

Check out the 4K competition @ www.java4k.com
Check out GAMADU (my own site) @ http://gamadu.com/
Games published by our own members! Check 'em out!
Legends of Yore - The Casual Retro Roguelike
Offline noblemaster

JGO Ninja


Medals: 20
Projects: 10


Age of Conquest makes your day!


« Reply #3 - Posted 2007-11-26 00:47:36 »

no worries apple  Grin

there isn't much there yet, so the only thing to pick on is the "k". Actually, the color, should it not be... Grin

Offline Morre

JGO Knight


Medals: 2
Projects: 10


I'm Dragonene on IRC.


« Reply #4 - Posted 2007-11-26 01:05:31 »

Really, though. The prefix is "kilo", which is abbreviated by a lowercase k. Wink

Anyway, I was only joking around. I'm dying to see the new site! Smiley

Offline appel

JGO Wizard


Medals: 49
Projects: 4


I always win!


« Reply #5 - Posted 2007-11-29 22:45:47 »

I'm dying to see the new site! Smiley

Don't hold your breath Smiley Although it's nice to get a new website up and domain, it's still only a temporary one I had to quickly put up. I'll make a total redesign once I have free time in december.

I'm currently setting the website up on the server, having some problems with php and the libraries, they don't seem to like the server, but works perfectly on my desktop machine. Website probably won't open until saturday, dec 1st. So it will be just in time.

Check out the 4K competition @ www.java4k.com
Check out GAMADU (my own site) @ http://gamadu.com/
Offline erikd

JGO Ninja


Medals: 16
Projects: 4
Exp: 14 years


Maximumisness


« Reply #6 - Posted 2007-11-30 15:27:57 »

Really, though. The prefix is "kilo", which is abbreviated by a lowercase k. Wink

Anyway, I was only joking around. I'm dying to see the new site! Smiley


Yes, the little logo currently means '4 Kelvin'. Which of course is pretty cool too  Wink

Offline Morre

JGO Knight


Medals: 2
Projects: 10


I'm Dragonene on IRC.


« Reply #7 - Posted 2007-11-30 17:09:50 »

Puns <3

Offline jojoh

JGO Knight


Medals: 5
Projects: 7


games4j.com


« Reply #8 - Posted 2007-11-30 17:12:19 »

Brand new domain - awesome stuff! That logo though, the k is suppoed to be lowercase (as in kB), no? Smiley
If you really think it is or should be in lower case, then you are only allowed to use 4000 bytes in this competition  Wink The rest can use 4096  Cheesy
Yes, the little logo currently means '4 Kelvin'. Which of course is pretty cool too  Wink
No no, it is the 4 potassium compo  Tongue

Offline Morre

JGO Knight


Medals: 2
Projects: 10


I'm Dragonene on IRC.


« Reply #9 - Posted 2007-11-30 18:46:34 »

Point taken, although there's no mention of unit; 4k could mean "4 kilograms" as well as "4 kilobytes", and I'm fairly sure you can fit lots of code on paper in four kilograms. In fact, whath we really need is to specify it as "4 Kib". With only the K, it means Kelvin and nothing else Wink

Games published by our own members! Check 'em out!
Legends of Yore - The Casual Retro Roguelike
Offline appel

JGO Wizard


Medals: 49
Projects: 4


I always win!


« Reply #10 - Posted 2007-12-01 22:27:47 »

The site is open.

You can register a user account
You can submit games

Todo:
- New layout. The current one is temporary, something I had ready.
- Add all the games from the previous competitions to the database
- More features

Check out the 4K competition @ www.java4k.com
Check out GAMADU (my own site) @ http://gamadu.com/
Offline Morre

JGO Knight


Medals: 2
Projects: 10


I'm Dragonene on IRC.


« Reply #11 - Posted 2007-12-02 19:13:37 »

Can one change games after they've been submitted?

Offline appel

JGO Wizard


Medals: 49
Projects: 4


I always win!


« Reply #12 - Posted 2007-12-02 23:06:02 »

Can one change games after they've been submitted?

You can change the games yes, but not after the deadline (end of february), then it's frozen.

Check out the 4K competition @ www.java4k.com
Check out GAMADU (my own site) @ http://gamadu.com/
Offline appel

JGO Wizard


Medals: 49
Projects: 4


I always win!


« Reply #13 - Posted 2007-12-03 01:52:36 »

I've uploaded _the_ layout for the Java4k website  Cool

More features will be coming in the next 1-2 weeks, but for now it should be enough for viewing games, registering an account and submitting games.

Please submit some games asap so I can verify it works! (should work!)

Check out the 4K competition @ www.java4k.com
Check out GAMADU (my own site) @ http://gamadu.com/
Offline CaptainJester

JGO Knight


Medals: 12
Projects: 2
Exp: 14 years


Make it work; make it better.


« Reply #14 - Posted 2007-12-03 04:47:08 »

Ok.  Submitted my game.

Offline DzzD
« Reply #15 - Posted 2007-12-03 09:44:13 »

I prefer games embeded in web pages as Applet/ /flash, and I usually close if something Webstartable open, so I was wondering about the fact that maybe webstart rather than applet make game less attractive ? I woulk just like to have some opinions on this (from a user side not programmer)?

Offline appel

JGO Wizard


Medals: 49
Projects: 4


I always win!


« Reply #16 - Posted 2007-12-03 09:53:42 »

There is more work involved (for me) to allow applets to be embedded in the pages, I think.

For now, I think webstart is mandatory for all games. I think 100% of the games in previous competition were webstart capable. Applets are good too, but I need to look into it and see what sort of uploading features I need to include.

Check out the 4K competition @ www.java4k.com
Check out GAMADU (my own site) @ http://gamadu.com/
Offline malberts

Junior Member





« Reply #17 - Posted 2007-12-03 10:36:58 »

From a user's point of view webstart allows you to execute offline as the JAR is cached (if the jnlp file allows it, which usually is the case) when you run it. With webstart you also have the facility to keep track of all your webstart apps.

Webstart is a way to distribute programs to ease the burden on a user.

In space no-one can hear you System.out.println()
Offline jojoh

JGO Knight


Medals: 5
Projects: 7


games4j.com


« Reply #18 - Posted 2007-12-03 11:06:19 »

I prefer games embeded in web pages as Applet/ /flash, and I usually close if something Webstartable open, so I was wondering about the fact that maybe webstart rather than applet make game less attractive ?
Interesting comment. Would you care to explain why you don't like webstart. I find that applets quite often don't quit as they should and you end up having to brutally kill the browser to get back mem and cpu. I see no real drawback in webstart, just click link and you are ready to play, can even use full screen and as mentioned you can play off-line. Applets are fine as well if they are done right, and maybe more comfortable for "flash players", but we don't cater to them in this compo.

Offline DzzD
« Reply #19 - Posted 2007-12-03 12:07:07 »

Quote
Interesting comment. Would you care to explain why you don't like webstart

Ok, basically, there are two main reasons:
- First it popup a window and I dislike popup as many user (Notice this may also cause browser problem as you can simulate a click on jnlp and bypass the browser popup blocker...as well as install program on it computer)
- Second It put one add/remove program in the windows add/remove program list and I hate this point..., so installing the program for offline a said above is sure great for offline but imagine if that all flash all over the web was installed into your computer!, what I mean is "Web is Web" and "CD are CD" , sry, dont really know if it is undertandable....

I think it is an inconvenient for user that a program is installed in there computer when they dont know. Webstart make me think as a simple .exe link but even with exe file you can choose save/execute ? webstart make the choice for you "execute & install". I also think it can cause browser security issue by make the user think think that it is a real window.


Offline appel

JGO Wizard


Medals: 49
Projects: 4


I always win!


« Reply #20 - Posted 2007-12-03 12:27:45 »

I agree, we should mimic what others are doing well (e.g. flash games).

Applets aren't perfect (slow loading, crash-prone), but I would like to see (most/all) the games as applets eventually. Not sure about this years competition though, but definitely in any future competitions it should be a standard (debate on that welcome any day).

The problem is that, we don't want just some games to be Applets and some games Webstartable. That will confuse the non-developer user. Either ALL games are Applets or they are Webstartables, or both!
The fact that not a single game was a Applet in last years competition is a clear indication that developers don't bother with it (or there is some other reason). I even checked all the web pages given in the URL, some were 404's though, but found not a single Applet. However all the games were released as Webstartables in last years competition.

So the choice is quite clear, if we have to choose between the two.

I'm sorry but I don't think we're going to aim for Applets this year, however you're welcome to make a Applet of your game and put it up on your own site! Users can then choose to click on that link to open your web page if they prefer it that way. But you would still have to submit your game as webstartable to qualify, since we want a uniform behavior for the user.

I have a vision that games should be playable like the videos at Google (http://videos.google.com), you just click a (+) icon and the game screen expands down and game loads. Well, that more of a visual implementation thingy Smiley

For now, the Java4K competition is still somewhat developer-oriented, but hopefully that will change in the next few months (towards user/player-oriented).

edit: @DzzD, I understand your comments regarding the popups and installation part of webstart, and I agree! However, since java4k is more developer oriented this will not be a big issue (hasn't been in previous years).

Check out the 4K competition @ www.java4k.com
Check out GAMADU (my own site) @ http://gamadu.com/
Offline DzzD
« Reply #21 - Posted 2007-12-03 13:09:47 »

doom4 online  Wink http://dzzd.net/demo/JNLP/doom4.jnlp

EDIT:
above is just for fun.. dont worry  Wink


PS: As I plan to open a game section, I am working in a way that applet may be started as smoothly as flash without hang (includig all JVM version), will try to show a sample as soon as possible.


EDIT2:
note that by simulating a click on the link above you can open this popup on a website, and make visitor confused, offcourse the splash will be replaced in such case by real elements, input and such, as "give me you password"....

Offline malberts

Junior Member





« Reply #22 - Posted 2007-12-03 13:25:45 »

Can't you make the description boxes bigger? Firefox 2 and IE 6 gives a very small block and it's hard to type there if you haven't typed it somewhere else before. And the box that contains the links and the login stuff is messed up on IE 6 but fine on FF2.

edit: How do I get my game description formatted? Enters don't work and HTML is stripped.

EDIT2:
note that by simulating a click on the link above you can open this popup on a website, and make visitor confused, offcourse the splash will be replaced in such case by real elements, input and such, as "give me you password"....
The popup you get here is the way the forum works. Clicking on a jnlp link in a normal site will either display the standard download screen or open it directly.

In space no-one can hear you System.out.println()
Offline appel

JGO Wizard


Medals: 49
Projects: 4


I always win!


« Reply #23 - Posted 2007-12-03 13:27:24 »

doom4 online  Wink http://dzzd.net/demo/JNLP/doom4.jnlp

EDIT:
above is just for fun.. dont worry  Wink


PS: As I plan to open a game section, I am working in a way that applet may be started as smoothly as flash without hang (includig all JVM version), will try to show a sample as soon as possible.


EDIT2:
note that by simulating a click on the link above you can open this popup on a website, and make visitor confused, offcourse the splash will be replaced in such case by real elements, input and such, as "give me you password"....

Smiley Yea, sure. But all submissions are verified before they are public (I test the jnlp links), so there is at least some level of protection. Also, I see who submitted the game, so if it's a name I don't recognize and a strange looking/behaving webstart then I use my common sense and don't let it through.

Not a big thing to worry about, but still a thought that I constantly keep back in my mind.

If you want to go 100% paranoia you can of course unplug your computer Wink

Check out the 4K competition @ www.java4k.com
Check out GAMADU (my own site) @ http://gamadu.com/
Offline jojoh

JGO Knight


Medals: 5
Projects: 7


games4j.com


« Reply #24 - Posted 2007-12-03 15:47:58 »

- First it popup a window and I dislike popup as many user
Well it pops up the game that I want to play, when I want to play, so it isn't anything that bothers me. It would be worse it was an ad that popedup when I didn't ask for it. This is naturally a personal preference.

- Second It put one add/remove program in the windows add/remove program list and I hate this point..., so installing the program for offline a said above is sure great for offline but imagine if that all flash all over the web was installed into your computer!, what I mean is "Web is Web" and "CD are CD" , sry, dont really know if it is undertandable....

I think it is an inconvenient for user that a program is installed in there computer when they dont know. Webstart make me think as a simple .exe link but even with exe file you can choose save/execute ? webstart make the choice for you "execute & install". I also think it can cause browser security issue by make the user think think that it is a real window.
It is just a cache and the webstart app/game is stored on your HD just as any flash game is stored on your HD. One is stored in the browser cache and the other in a java webstart cache. You can empty both and you can set the size of both caches. The major difference is that you can remove an individual application with webstart and that is more difficult with your browser cache. The bloat of the add/remove could be a bit of a drawback, but again, nothing that bothers me personally.

Navigate to your browser cache and dbl-click any of all the flash/shockwave files you see there and see what happens Wink Installed there as well, just harder to start yourself than a webstart app.

above is just for fun.. dont worry  Wink
Well the "Java Application Window" bar is a dead giveaway, so that is not so worrying. That and the fact that I don't have NAV installed Smiley. Just because someone could stab you in the eye with a fork doesn't mean that you shouldn't use a fork yourself (unless you are prone to accidentally stab yourself in the eye of cource). Most people posting jnlp's here have been around in this forum, so the risk that they would be poking anyone in the eye is fairly small. Smiley More likely that they will feed you good games. That said, if you stumble upon a webstart that requests rights and the certificate is unknown, then it is time to put on some protective glasses. (I better stop this analogy before it goes completely out of hand!)

Still if applets are done right, then I have nothing against them at all, especially if sun gets the browser freeze problem and milpa style applet loading works in general. If you are competing with flash sites, then you probably want to use applets rather than ws, but not what we are trying to do here. Java 6 will probably be allowed for next years compo, and better applet support should come with that, so there could definitely be a switch to applet next year, if there is a general support for that from developers.

Look forward to see your "applet smooth starter" sample. A generic thing like that is something that is needed badly. Especially if it can be "wrapped around" a normal applet. Would be really helpful in evening out the flash/java war (if we even have one, maybe create one).

Offline DzzD
« Reply #25 - Posted 2007-12-03 16:30:05 »

Quote
Navigate to your browser cache and dbl-click any of all the flash/shockwave files you see there and see what happens  Installed there as well, just harder to start yourself than a webstart app.
Smiley I have no cache on my system, freed each time I get out of browser...

Quote
...That and the fact that I don't have NAV installed...

me too  Wink this is a google image I grab for this sample, I have no antivirus, just use a firewall and always online scan dangerous file and i never catch any virus since... more than 15 years (with windows  Smiley ), but that was just a parentesis, I would be able to show a false web site or anything else, the sample above have been made in less than 30 minutes and it is my first jnlp application  Smiley, so there is nothing serious in it, but tunning it a little will enable to "Mislead any user", undecorating a window should not be enabled without security privilege, also I am not worry about 4k contest as I know all people are serious and also that "appel" keep an eyes on submission, so I apologize to post in this thread as it become unrelated to 4k contest but rather to jnlp browser security issue.

Quote
Look forward to see your "applet smooth starter" sample. A generic thing like that is something that is needed badly. Especially if it can be "wrapped around" a normal applet. Would be really helpful in evening out the flash/java war (if we even have one, maybe create one).
should be posted in "shared source code" thread  in a cupple of hours  Smiley

does a 2 second freez is acceptable ?

Offline Morre

JGO Knight


Medals: 2
Projects: 10


I'm Dragonene on IRC.


« Reply #26 - Posted 2007-12-03 18:12:06 »

Very awesome new site - I like the general layout, but I don't care much for the color scheme and font usage - it gets too high-contrast, somewhat difficult to read.

EDIT: I also have  a few comments regarding the about text - nothing big, just tiny bits I'd change. I'll try to elaborate as soon as I get the time, very busy with school right now Smiley

EDIT2: Took a look at the source - oh, you're crazy! Look at all those meta tags, I was sure it was spam! Come on, "barbie dress up game"? :>

EDIT3: Perhaps the logo should lead to "home", just as the home link does.

Offline woogley
« Reply #27 - Posted 2007-12-03 18:25:01 »

In regards to the applet comment... correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't their a JNLP tag to have webstart launch an applet from a page as if it was an application? that could be a temporary bridge between an actual page embedding the applets..
Offline appel

JGO Wizard


Medals: 49
Projects: 4


I always win!


« Reply #28 - Posted 2007-12-03 18:35:23 »

Very awesome new site - I like the general layout, but I don't care much for the color scheme and font usage - it gets too high-contrast, somewhat difficult to read.

EDIT: I also have  a few comments regarding the about text - nothing big, just tiny bits I'd change. I'll try to elaborate as soon as I get the time, very busy with school right now Smiley

EDIT2: Took a look at the source - oh, you're crazy! Look at all those meta tags, I was sure it was spam! Come on, "barbie dress up game"? :>

EDIT3: Perhaps the logo should lead to "home", just as the home link does.

Haha, I got that meta tag from some engine that created it for me Smiley

Anyway, yes, it's very high-contrast retro... but I will add a "softer-on-the-eyes" color scheme, so you can choose. For now, you can turn off stylesheets in firefox Smiley


Check out the 4K competition @ www.java4k.com
Check out GAMADU (my own site) @ http://gamadu.com/
Offline Morre

JGO Knight


Medals: 2
Projects: 10


I'm Dragonene on IRC.


« Reply #29 - Posted 2007-12-03 21:00:00 »

Spingle is now submitted.

I find it pretty tricky to read my own instructions. It'd be nifty to be able to make my subcategories more clear, for example by allowing some sort of [header]header[/header]-like tag. Another thing that would be really neat to have are icons for the controls, so that mouse and keyboard input could be easily represented by a few tags showing pictures of the relevant keys. It'd make controls much more readable for the user.

EDIT:
I quote from the site: "But what's the catch? Well, it wouldn't be fun if there wasn't any catch! There are limitations, and these limitations are: The game must be maximum 4KB in size (yes, that's 4096 bytes maximum!)."
It's two repetitions in a row. I'd shorten it to "So what's the catch? There's a 4Kib limit! That means a maximum of _4096_ bytes." or something along those lines (where _x_ means underlined).

Also, though I suppose it's not very relevant, woogley didn't start the competition - he hosted it for three years. The contest ran for two years before that, hosted on JGO and sun's dev forums, whatever they're called (Sun Microsystems Java forums, I think). mlk hosted the first contest 2002-2003, and woogley took over 2004-2005 (that being the 2005 contest, not the 2004 as the site currently says).

EDIT2:
Oh, and another feature I'd like to see - sorting games by different categories (by clicking on the table headers). Smiley

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