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  Anyone besides me really dislike Eclipse?  (Read 12505 times)
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Offline g666

Junior Member





« Reply #60 - Posted 2007-08-02 10:51:47 »

jcreator is quite nice and simple, i found it rather buggy and inconsistent after a while though. I use eclipse now, of course Grin

desperately seeking sanity
Offline DzzD
« Reply #61 - Posted 2007-08-02 10:59:17 »

 Angry

I have to buy a new PC if I want to use it without problem.... and to be true I prefer working/developping on old workstation to ensure portability.

NB: nothing related but nowadays with all this lack of quality in software, soon we will need a 4GHz 8*core to run a simple notepad...

Offline cylab

JGO Ninja


Medals: 49



« Reply #62 - Posted 2007-08-02 11:25:56 »

Come on. The resource requirements for modern software also results from users expecting before impossible features and comfort. also today it's quite common to handle huge codebases and binary resources in IDEs.

Mathias - I Know What [you] Did Last Summer!
Games published by our own members! Check 'em out!
Legends of Yore - The Casual Retro Roguelike
Offline keldon85

Senior Member


Medals: 1



« Reply #63 - Posted 2007-08-02 11:39:20 »

Angry

I have to buy a new PC if I want to use it without problem.... and to be true I prefer working/developping on old workstation to ensure portability.

NB: nothing related but nowadays with all this lack of quality in software, soon we will need a 4GHz 8*core to run a simple notepad...
Going by your specs you should have no problem running Eclipse; I was fine on a 700Mhz PIII with 256MB Ram and using the Together Eclipse plugin.

Offline DzzD
« Reply #64 - Posted 2007-08-02 11:53:45 »

Come on. The resource requirements for modern software also results from users expecting before impossible features and comfort. also today it's quite common to handle huge codebases and binary resources in IDEs.

this is only business ... only business... to always buy more powefull GC and computer.... I dream when I remenber wolfenstein 3D the first real 3D FPS, running on a 80286 33Mhz at about 30 fps without any 3D cards...., nowadays only productivity is important.... new movies sucks, new music sucks and finally new software ........

Offline erikd

JGO Ninja


Medals: 16
Projects: 4
Exp: 14 years


Maximumisness


« Reply #65 - Posted 2007-08-02 12:46:56 »

Quote
I have to buy a new PC if I want to use it without problem.... and to be true I prefer working/developping on old workstation to ensure portability.
I've used Eclipse on a P2 266MHz Laptop with 128Mb. It still worked adequately (although it took a long time to start). This was in the version 2 days.

Offline CheekyRipley

Junior Member


Projects: 1



« Reply #66 - Posted 2007-08-02 13:11:40 »

I hope this is a joke.

Nope, the autocomplete in Eclipse sucks. An example: Say we have an object "fred". Type fred, followed by a full stop. The autocomplete pops up. Type the first few chars of the member you want, then say you make a mistake and hit backspace. You lose the lot, and have to delete what you've typed back to "fred" and start again.

I suppose I might be unique here in that I'm not bothered about refactoring, forms, guis and whatnot - I just want something to help me write terse, tight code quickly without having to constantly have to look up member names and so on. And when things go wrong I want a debugger which lets me quickly get to the root of the problem, quickly inspect variables, objects and so on. Currently with the state of Java IDEs at the moment I'm not getting this.

I don't know on what experience you base this statement, but I think java IDEs are quite good and powerful. Maybe the power unfolds not until you have  a large project with multiple develpers and daily refactoring needs.

Or maybe their faults unfold when you have several large projects over several platforms and a couple of hundred targets Wink

Buy a faster PC Smiley Sorry, just joking.

I think a dual-core with a gig of ram should be enough for a glorified text editor Cheesy

Take a look at Intellij Idea. It's not native, but it's quite fast and has some outstanding productivity improvement features. But it's commercial and you need to _really_ try it out. I use it for 5 years now and I consistently found useful features by mistyping key strokes per accident til last year Wink

Yeah I've installed it but yet to use it enough to form an opinion.

Mark Ripley<br />Cheeky
Offline princec

JGO Kernel


Medals: 380
Projects: 3
Exp: 16 years


Eh? Who? What? ... Me?


« Reply #67 - Posted 2007-08-02 13:17:21 »

Ah, you use autocomplete in a completely different way to me. I always use Ctrl-Space to bring up lists of suggestions, and I never let it insert the "only" choice automatically either.

Cas Smiley

Offline Kova

Senior Member





« Reply #68 - Posted 2007-08-02 13:24:52 »

Nope, the autocomplete in Eclipse sucks. An example: Say we have an object "fred". Type fred, followed by a full stop. The autocomplete pops up. Type the first few chars of the member you want, then say you make a mistake and hit backspace. You lose the lot, and have to delete what you've typed back to "fred" and start again.

huh? if you make a mistake and hit backspace you delete one character, nothing disappears (at least on my eclipse, but it's default behavior)
Offline erikd

JGO Ninja


Medals: 16
Projects: 4
Exp: 14 years


Maximumisness


« Reply #69 - Posted 2007-08-02 13:35:03 »

Same here. Auto completion works exactly as I expect it to work. I found Eclipse to be especially clever to bring up the most likely option to the top of the list, almost as if it can read my mind  Smiley

Games published by our own members! Check 'em out!
Legends of Yore - The Casual Retro Roguelike
Offline cylab

JGO Ninja


Medals: 49



« Reply #70 - Posted 2007-08-02 13:41:03 »

Nope, the autocomplete in Eclipse sucks.
I was refering to Visual Studio when I said I hope it's a joke Smiley

I suppose I might be unique here in that I'm not bothered about refactoring, forms, guis and whatnot - I just want something to help me write terse, tight code quickly without having to constantly have to look up member names and so on. And when things go wrong I want a debugger which lets me quickly get to the root of the problem, quickly inspect variables, objects and so on. Currently with the state of Java IDEs at the moment I'm not getting this.
Actually that's exactly what java IDEs do for me. I have not used eclipse very often, because I think it sucks, but with Netbeans and especially Idea I get exactly this. Tons of productivity improvements and an easy intuitive debugger. Can't think of eclipse being that much behind...

Or maybe their faults unfold when you have several large projects over several platforms and a couple of hundred targets Wink
Can't say so and this description pretty much describes my working environment.

I think a dual-core with a gig of ram should be enough for a glorified text editor Cheesy
I have 2G, but also host a DB and an appserver on my dev machine.


Mathias - I Know What [you] Did Last Summer!
Offline CheekyRipley

Junior Member


Projects: 1



« Reply #71 - Posted 2007-08-02 14:46:43 »

huh? if you make a mistake and hit backspace you delete one character, nothing disappears (at least on my eclipse, but it's default behavior)

That's weird, it happens to me on both PC and Mac, as far back as I can remember. I don't think I've changed any options - especially not on both machines. I must admit I haven't tried Cas' ctrl+space way of doing things - I'll give that a spin now Smiley

Mark Ripley<br />Cheeky
Offline CheekyRipley

Junior Member


Projects: 1



« Reply #72 - Posted 2007-08-02 15:03:24 »

Ah, just had another go.

Type fred, dot.

Start typing the member name, then type something that it can't match. Popup disappears, delete what you've typed and try again.

Really annoying! Cheesy

Mark Ripley<br />Cheeky
Offline keldon85

Senior Member


Medals: 1



« Reply #73 - Posted 2007-08-02 15:13:11 »

Type [Ctrl+Break] and it will bring up auto complete

Offline CheekyRipley

Junior Member


Projects: 1



« Reply #74 - Posted 2007-08-02 17:01:34 »

Ah yes! Typing ctrl+space allows you to carry on where you left off!  Grin

Going to have to find something else to swear at now  Lips Sealed

Mark Ripley<br />Cheeky
Offline Mr_Light

Senior Member


Medals: 1


shiny.


« Reply #75 - Posted 2007-08-03 01:15:45 »

also you shouldn't keep on typing anyways, what's wrong with pressing <enter>

95% of the time two letters suffice followed by a CTRL+SPACE (perhaps 2 ARROW_DOWN) and hitting enter.

you can even improve it by filtering packages.

It's harder to read code than to write it. - it's even harder to write readable code.

The gospel of brother Riven: "The guarantee that all bugs are in *your* code is worth gold." Amen brother a-m-e-n.
Offline DzzD
« Reply #76 - Posted 2007-08-03 07:58:01 »

also you shouldn't keep on typing anyways, what's wrong with pressing <enter>

95% of the time two letters suffice followed by a CTRL+SPACE (perhaps 2 ARROW_DOWN) and hitting enter.

you can even improve it by filtering packages.

basically you press 5 times (average) yours keyborads... so it makes typing words that are less than 5 letters it wont help  Wink also you have to lookat your mini-window wich requiere some time  Wink

Offline Mr_Light

Senior Member


Medals: 1


shiny.


« Reply #77 - Posted 2007-08-03 09:03:04 »

and won't hurt niether and thats 5 times max  Cool (ok ok 4 keys avg. big deal  Tongue)

besides I use hardware of this time and age, I can ensure you with that with a core 2 duo 1.66 with 2 gb memory it pops up pretty fast, not that I had problems with my old laptop but then again my old laptop seems to have better specs then you guys workstations.

besides the more you use it the 'hotter' the spot becomes, the faster it gets optimised  Grin


I do suppose it comes to your nameing conventions and typing speed, in my particular case both favor the Ctrl+space way(long names and slow(more important clumpsy) typing)

It's harder to read code than to write it. - it's even harder to write readable code.

The gospel of brother Riven: "The guarantee that all bugs are in *your* code is worth gold." Amen brother a-m-e-n.
Offline ryanm

Senior Member


Projects: 1
Exp: 15 years


Used to be bleb


« Reply #78 - Posted 2007-08-03 09:17:41 »

basically you press 5 times (average) yours keyborads... so it makes typing words that are less than 5 letters it wont help  Wink also you have to lookat your mini-window wich requiere some time  Wink

True enough, but using the autocomplete does guarantee that you'll make no typos with your "keyborad"  Wink
Offline blahblahblahh

JGO Coder


Medals: 1


http://t-machine.org


« Reply #79 - Posted 2007-08-03 09:47:37 »

also you shouldn't keep on typing anyways, what's wrong with pressing <enter>

95% of the time two letters suffice followed by a CTRL+SPACE (perhaps 2 ARROW_DOWN) and hitting enter.

you can even improve it by filtering packages.

CTRL+SPACE is for poor fools who got corrupted by Microsoft's stupidity.

Real men use TAB - one fewer keypress Tongue.

malloc will be first against the wall when the revolution comes...
Offline Jackal von ÖRF

Junior Member





« Reply #80 - Posted 2007-08-05 00:05:02 »

IntelliJ doesn't work for me, it relies on shortkeys a lot, for a zillion  things(well a zillion for me, anything beyond 5 is too much CTRL+space CTRL+shift+j CTRL+shift+f F4... and I already forgot the 5th.)
Actually you get used to it very fast and you get a real problem once you are forced to use another IDE. It just feels like you can't do anything anymore Wink
I have the same feeling. It's like having my hands cut off and writing code with my toes. Wink

At my previous workplace I had to sometimes use Eclipse/RAD because everybody else in the team was using it, and it was always painful - the usability (especially performance/productivity) was miserable and in addition I had to spend tens of hours dodging IBM RAD's bugs (sometimes even getting the project to compile took many manual steps, even hours). So in the end I wrote the code in IDEA, sent it through CVS to my RAD, so that I could compile and deploy it to the application server using RAD.

In the beginning I used JCreator, but after a couple of years (late 2004) I was reaching JCreator's limits and at that time JCreator did not have Java 5 support, so I had to change the IDE. I tried Eclipse, NetBeans and IDEA for a short while, and IDEA was the one with which it was the easiest to start a new project and get coding. Also here at JGF, many of those who had used all the main IDEs recommended IDEA as the best of them. Now that I've used IDEA for over two years, I say the same. Cool

When someone learning Java asks me which IDE to use, I usually tell them to use a simple editor with a button for compiling and running the project (such as JCreator or any text editor with syntax highlighting), so that they will first learn the language, can read javadocs and understand the compiler's error messages. Then when they know the basics and start doing real projects, they can better appreciate what a full IDE provides.

I use maven2 so running it in eclipse intellij or netbeans should be easy. I heared netbeans has build-in support, haven't tried.
IDEA's EAP releases have Maven integration as well (a Maven plugin was bundled a couple of months ago). I'm using the latest EAP builds right now - if there are showstopper bugs, I'll just revert to the previous release. Because of some architectural changes, the speed of the beta versions is better than that of the stable release, so it's worth using version 7.0M1 or the EAPs instead of 6.0.5.

Upgrading IDEA is very simple. Just install to a new folder. The settings are stored in the home directory and upgrading minor versions requires no changes to them. When upgrading to a new major version, you can import your old settings if you want. Right now I have installed the latest stable version (6.0.5) and the latest two EAP builds of IDEA 7 (#7104 and #7111). The only thing requiring manual work is adding your own VM parameters to idea.exe.vmoptions. I usually add the parameters -server -Dsun.awt.keepWorkingSetOnMinimize=true and maybe increase the maximum heap space.

Offline Mr_Light

Senior Member


Medals: 1


shiny.


« Reply #81 - Posted 2007-08-05 01:16:21 »

I've used IDEA for 3 month's it centainly wasn't unpleasant and I do recommend it to other people(togetter with eclipse, and I point out netbean's profiler). But when I can choose, I choose eclipse. Idea comes with more stuff build in, but I don't mind installing a few plugins.


It's harder to read code than to write it. - it's even harder to write readable code.

The gospel of brother Riven: "The guarantee that all bugs are in *your* code is worth gold." Amen brother a-m-e-n.
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