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  Understanding Sun  (Read 9259 times)
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Offline DavidYazel

Junior Devvie




Java games rock!


« Posted 2003-08-01 18:20:46 »


I didn't actually think they would let Java3D die on the vine.  But with Kelvin Chung and Mark Hood laid off there isn't anyone left (to my knowledge).

What is next? JavaSound?  JAI? ImageIO? Java2D?

It is one thing to develop free technologies, but Sun has generally not released source to many of their free technologies, leaving us critically dependant on them.  To take them away and not release the source seems a bit... well odd.

I am trying to figure out what the heck is going on.  They may think they are killing this one little API, but it really undermines confidence in their whole technology suite.  

And are things that bad financially at Sun that they can't afford 2 engineers on an API they spent the last 6 years developing?  That scares me even more.

David Yazel
Xith3D Project Founder
http://xith3d.dev.java.net

It may look complicated, but in the end it is just a bunch of triangles
Offline bmyers

Junior Devvie





« Reply #1 - Posted 2003-08-01 18:23:04 »

Where did you see info about layoffs Huh  

EDIT:  Ah, I just saw the Java3D forum post..

Is Java3D officially dead, then?  Cry

Or just brain-dead and waiting to die...

Offline gregorypierce

Senior Devvie




I come upon thee like the blue screen of death....


« Reply #2 - Posted 2003-08-01 18:30:27 »

Java3D has been dead for a while now. It will be up to us as a community to use Xith3D and similar to keep it alive and kicking. IOW, we can no longer depend on Sun to support our various interests because they are in the process of figuring out what their interests are.

http://www.gregorypierce.com

She builds, she builds oh man
When she links, she links I go crazy
Cause she looks like good code but she's really a hack
I think I'll run upstairs and grab a snack!
Games published by our own members! Check 'em out!
Legends of Yore - The Casual Retro Roguelike
Offline shawnkendall

Senior Devvie





« Reply #3 - Posted 2003-08-01 19:04:55 »

The announcement of official OpenGL bindings at SIGGRAPH pretty much signalled the end of Java3D support IMHO.

Laying off the last peeps on it pretty much tells the world where is stands with Sun.  Perhaps they will open source it, there was talk once.

It's funny, we would have been willing to pay for support at one point.  We put a lot of work into our loaders and support classes.

On the other hand, OpenGL 1.5 is a wonderful evolution, and we now have direct access (roughly).  Actually, OGL has gotten much higher level than it once was, and many of our components are moving to OGL fairly easily since most operations were directly on GeometryArrays and really basic graphs (Group, TransformGroup).  We have a working renderer for limited J3D scene graphs (which I swear I'll post soon! ).  Those still in J3D-land, we say start planning a migration path for your next project :-) Plus, it can run on OSX too!

Even if J3D was alive and kicking it would take year+ to get 1.5 features into it.

P.S. I got real drunk the FIRST time they laid off everyone on the J3D team something like two years ago.  When that happened Full Sail pulled the plug on our internal development for Java3D AND all Java. :-(

Shawn Kendall
Cosmic Interactive, LLC
http://www.facebook.com/BermudaDash
Offline Jeff

JGO Coder




Got any cats?


« Reply #4 - Posted 2003-08-02 03:15:27 »

All I can say is, if you ever totally understand Sun, explain it to me :/

JK

Got a question about Java and game programming?  Just new to the Java Game Development Community?  Try my FAQ.  Its likely you'll learn something!

http://wiki.java.net/bin/view/Games/JeffFAQ
Offline Herkules

Senior Devvie




Friendly fire isn't friendly!


« Reply #5 - Posted 2003-08-02 10:23:54 »

I chose Java3D thinking it is a well supported API from a big company that is stable enough to form a community where lots of useful stuff comes from. And first it seemed to work (loaders, j3d.org, Mark and Kelvin on the list...)

Now, there maybe are things like Xith3D which are single-person efforts. That's a big difference! (Although it doesn't say anything about the quality!)

What about a clear strategy that is reliably followed?

DX, DX3, DX5, DX7, DX8, DX9, ......

HARDCODE    --     DRTS/FlyingGuns/JPilot/JXInput  --    skype me: joerg.plewe
Offline gregorypierce

Senior Devvie




I come upon thee like the blue screen of death....


« Reply #6 - Posted 2003-08-02 13:38:46 »

Unfortunately in this day and age, the strategy is dictated by money - and Sun still doesn't get it. That's why I wouldn't have supported JOGL unless it was open source and I won't support their new JSR until it becomes open source. Actually, I may never support it - just adding the capability to JOGL Smiley

http://www.gregorypierce.com

She builds, she builds oh man
When she links, she links I go crazy
Cause she looks like good code but she's really a hack
I think I'll run upstairs and grab a snack!
Offline benny

Junior Devvie




Java rocks! But then again anime rocks too!


« Reply #7 - Posted 2003-08-02 21:13:04 »

Quote
What about a clear strategy that is reliably followed?DX, DX3, DX5, DX7, DX8, DX9, ......


Don't you tell me that when I finally get to understand Java that I will have to use Microsoft crap.  Angry For the love of God!. Please. I wanted to learn Java so that I can escape my dependence on Windows not depend on it even more. Besides putting DirectX bindings into Java would just make it platform dependent on Windows (shudder).

But OpenGL is really good! Supported by most operating systems and used in popular CG animation programs. And it is so much faster than DirectX in my opinion because it is capable of utilizing hardware to a better degree.

Windows XP Professional
Pentium II 450 MHz with 256 MB of SD-RAM
64 MB GeForce4 MX-440 SE

Arnold Schwarzenegger runs for governor: Lets cut violence in half with a laser guided machine gun across the barren, charred wastelands--for the children.
Offline bmyers

Junior Devvie





« Reply #8 - Posted 2003-08-03 00:12:02 »

Herk was just pointing out that Microsoft has a strategy for their DirectX API, and keeps coming out with upgrades.  This is one of the ways they keep getting people to develop to their APIs, by always adding the newest hardware features to the API.

Also, FWIW Java3D *does* have Direct3D bindings, in addition to OpenGL bindings -- leaves the choice of which to use up to you, but doesn't tie you to the platform.

Now if someone uses jdirect3d, that would be tying yourself to the platform!  Tongue

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