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Offline Kommi

Junior Duke




All opinions will be lined up and shot!


« Posted 2003-07-27 13:21:09 »

Is anyone concerned that the .NET framework is ment as a replacement for Java? I was reading about this over at gamedev.net and was wonering whats the opinion about the framework and is promised DirectX capabilities VS Java and it's future capabilities?

Kommi
Offline DrBizzar0

Junior Duke




Raj raj!


« Reply #1 - Posted 2003-07-27 15:12:14 »

Well of course it's meant as a Java replacement, but I don't see why that should be of any concern. Just because there might be games made using .NET and directX dosen't make it harder or impossible to do a Java game  Smiley
Offline immudium

Junior Duke




Gorram it!


« Reply #2 - Posted 2003-07-27 15:53:15 »

Heh, funny, I've always thought of Java as a .NET replacement for making games since I've worked in .NET for the past couple of years now and only recently started exploring some of the nifty, new gaming features of Java such as jogl and Volatile/Managed images in Java2D.  I guess it depends on your perspective.
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Offline Herkules

Senior Duke




Friendly fire isn't friendly!


« Reply #3 - Posted 2003-07-28 07:48:13 »

I doubt that Sun likes that topic to be discussed here and I wonder how long it might take until the moderator shows up....  Lips Sealed

In fact, there are some strong points for .NET gaming:

- C# as a Java-like language. They are similar.
- DirectX: together with the DX-utilities that's a by far more powerful gaming base than any OGL-binding can be. It is constantly improved and really dedicated to games and always cutting edge.
- a BIG company behind that REALLY cares for games. M$ is much deeper involved with the games business as being a developer and publisher itself.
- there is a path to the console market (XBox)

But if you take mobile gaming into account, there still are some pros for Java. On the desktop, it's much harder to find real advantages (besides religeous ones).

I hope the Sun guys don't hate me now for saying some pro-M$ things, but isn't there some truth in it?

HARDCODE    --     DRTS/FlyingGuns/JPilot/JXInput  --    skype me: joerg.plewe
Offline JasonB

Junior Duke





« Reply #4 - Posted 2003-07-28 08:11:01 »

Quote

- C# as a Java-like language. They are similar.


Yerk.  Can't stand the syntax.  I did a few years of psychology while at university and I've got a vague recollection of a study back in the 60s where a couple of student wandered around wearing mirror glasses that turned what they saw upside down.  Eventually their brains switched so that everything looked the right way up.

Or maybe that was a joke my professor played on us... I don't recall.

But anyway, my brain seems fixed on Java syntax, because I've looked at C# and it seems hideous (upside down) to me.  Capital letters for methods?  Surely that should be a stoning offence...?  Grin

Quote

- a BIG company behind that REALLY cares for games. M$ is much deeper involved with the games business as being a developer and publisher itself.


Please reword as "a really BIG monopolist that really cares for its bottom line".  Microsplodge wouldn't be in the games market if it didn't make financial sense.  And there are plenty of arguments why it's a bad idea to have a corp. the size of Microsoft (and with their attitude) who is both developer, publisher and hardware provider.  Not a market I'm interested in joining really.

Give me Java on the PS3... please?


Okay, yes I agree, I'm being religious...
Offline kemalenver

Senior Newbie




null pointer exception


« Reply #5 - Posted 2003-08-07 17:17:34 »

I've recently started using c# and .net, purely for writing some game type stuff.  Its a nice language, very similar in syntax to java and you can use dx9 quite easily with it.  (Capital letters arent anything to do with syntax really Wink  )

I deffinitely recommend learning it, although I'm not saying give up on java!  I like both, its just nice to have the choice!  Grin
Offline ranabp

Senior Newbie




Blit Me :)


« Reply #6 - Posted 2003-08-08 02:28:06 »

How does C# Compare to Jaba in terms of Performance ?

Offline Herkules

Senior Duke




Friendly fire isn't friendly!


« Reply #7 - Posted 2003-08-08 13:12:50 »

Depends who you ask!!

I think they can be considered equal.

One point that might be of interest concerning performance is that the .NET bytecode in contrast to the java bytecode NEVER was meant to be executed directly, but always be an input for a JIT.
So it might be possible to place additional information to the bytecode that can help a JIT.
But this is only a very naive assumption. Maybe a hotspot guy can comment on that?

HARDCODE    --     DRTS/FlyingGuns/JPilot/JXInput  --    skype me: joerg.plewe
Offline erikd

JGO Ninja


Medals: 16
Projects: 4
Exp: 14 years


Maximumisness


« Reply #8 - Posted 2003-08-13 08:03:28 »

Until the .NET framework is available on as many platforms as Java (including mobile devices), it's not really a replacement for java.
As far as gaming (directX) is concerned, I suppose .NET will be microsoft only for the foreseeable future.

Having said that, if I were to develop games on only MS platforms, I'd probably go for .NET/C#. The thing is I don't want to tie myself so closely to MS.

Quote
- there is a path to the console market (XBox)

That's interesting. Is that path already real, or is it only plans?

Offline Preston

Senior Duke


Medals: 4



« Reply #9 - Posted 2003-08-13 09:50:18 »

Quote
Is anyone concerned that the .NET framework is ment as a replacement for Java?

Sure Borg's NET is meant as Java killer and quite some people and me have big concerns about that. Usually there are some interesting discussions going on that topic on http://www.javalobby.org for example. (I am not the biggest fan of that site but it's interesting oftenly.)

No question: Borg is trying to assimilate everything which could take away <x% of "their" world market (PC desktops just being one of many markets to them; whilst being still the most profitable). You can see this any day on the Borg's sad Anti Linux & Anti Opensource FUD.

BUT... There's always hope.
AND... Things always turn out differently from what you expect.
FURTHER... I like Java much more.


P.S.: Who ever claims "I rule the world" is a fool.
P.P.S: We remember the Borg slogan "Windoze everywhere".
Games published by our own members! Check 'em out!
Legends of Yore - The Casual Retro Roguelike
Offline kemalenver

Senior Newbie




null pointer exception


« Reply #10 - Posted 2003-08-13 21:32:30 »

More MS bashing Wink  Still, .NET and C# is a nice combo for developing games, especially if you are a Java programmer with little or no c/c++ experience.

Only thing that annoys me about it is that like java distribution can be a bit of a pain, however I think the .net framework is easier to get going for an average user.
Offline tortoise

Junior Duke




<3 Shmups


« Reply #11 - Posted 2003-08-13 22:47:06 »

bah, this isn't like Windows vs BeOS. Java is very well established and it works well. If companies see no immediate reason to change, they won't. It's not like .NET is suddenly solving a problem that Java doesn't address. My workplace is so happy with Java that the managers haven't even considered .NET yet. I'd be willing to bet that's a common sentiment.
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