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  Bloodridge  (Read 30656 times)
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Offline SimonH
« Posted 2007-02-22 03:46:45 »

Hi All,

I've been working on this game engine for a while now and it'd be good to get a bit of feedback from you guys.
It's a browser based fantasy SPS (second person shoot-em-up).

Screenshots and a demo of the game engine are at http://www.hayles.demon.co.uk/bloodridge/bloodridge.html

(Apologies for the artwork/architecture/animation - I'm a coder really!)

What I'd like to know just now is;

1. Does it run for you at all? I've checked IE and Firefox on windows - how about linux & macs - anyone?
2. What sort of FPS are you getting? (It's pegged at 20fps max but only really needs >15 to play smoothly)
3. Is it fun to play? Will people play this if it's worked up?
4. Is it too violent for a browser game? (I feel victimised by them svarts sometimes and that's with rubbish AI!)

I'm also wondering about the best avenue to take;

A. Human v human combat (Unreal tournament, Wolfenstein ET, Counter-strike &c) - sorta what I got now.
B. Human v bot monsters (WOW, D&D online, Guild wars &c) - mulitplayer quests with different monsters &c
C. Single player fantasy (Tomb raider &c) - no multiplayer (so no webstart/applet certificates needed) just single-player missions against bots.
D. Single or multiplayer RTS (hidden and dangerous, commandos &c) - one player controls a whole team by switching between characters.

I like A. best as it's most exciting, but what about getting 'bums on seats'? Which will pull most clicks?

I'd be grateful for any comments/suggestions (positive or negative!)


People make games and games make people
Offline nva225

Junior Member





« Reply #1 - Posted 2007-02-22 04:48:06 »

Wow that's really cool! Works perfectly, runs just fine on my Core Duo at least =)

I'm going to make the following control suggestions though:
  • Rip off the WoW control scheme, use Q for strafe left, E for strafe right. It works pretty well.
  • Use R for the reverse view, makes more sense anyway
  • Make the camera turn left/right a liiiitttle bit faster when you're using the mouse. I think up/down goes faster than left/right, they should be the same speed. Slow it down for the zoom though

Not too often you see something fully playable like this just suddenly appear. Very nice.
Offline thijs

Junior Member




Lava games rock!


« Reply #2 - Posted 2007-02-22 08:42:05 »

I second what NVA225 said, really cool.

On the tutorial I got ~16fps but on the missions framerates dropped to ~10fps. As you're doing software rendering your bound by the lag caused by blitting. It might be just the blitting of your backbuffer that makes your fps drop. As an alternative you could support JOGL rendering, which support applets.

For the gamesetting I think both deathmatch and coop (multiplayer quests) would be cool!

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Offline phu004

JGO Coder


Medals: 4
Projects: 9
Exp: 10 years


NoSuchPersonException


« Reply #3 - Posted 2007-02-22 11:10:17 »

Nice work!  Very smooth on my computer.  I like the way  how the camera got zoomed in and out when you are turning around.
It reminded me so much about Tomb Raider.

Bugs:
1.  When the first time I load the game(which is the tutorial lvl), the frame rate stays at 20. But then if I load any other lvls, the
     frame rate starts at 4 and increases a little bit every a few seconds. (evtually it will reach 20).  I believe the actualy frame
    rates is much more than it shows on screen. (it should be at least 30 I think)

2.  My pc seems to have problem with the sound, I have to disable it or my OS freezes after moving around for a little
     while.


Suggestions:
1.   It would be nice if you add the health bar and energy bar.
 
2. As  thijs mentioned,  try to make the game support JOGL(or lwjgl)  if you are not sticking with      Java 1.1.
(jvm 1.1 is a dying,  MS will nolonger support it after the end of 2007)

Here is my running environment  :

Celeron m 1.5ghz
512 ram
Intel graphics media accelerator 915GM
JRE 1.6
(JRE 1.6 really kicks ass, everybody should have it installed it on their computer Smiley )
   


 

Offline purpleguitar

Junior Member





« Reply #4 - Posted 2007-02-22 14:02:35 »

Works on Linux (Mandriva 2007 with Java 1.6), although the health meter and parts of the inventory flicker.  Also, I had no audio playback, but since that's a recurring problem on my setup, I don't know if that's due to your code or not.
Offline SimonH
« Reply #5 - Posted 2007-02-22 14:54:36 »

Thanks Guys!

Works on Linux (Mandriva 2007 with Java 1.6), although the health meter and parts of the inventory flicker.  Also, I had no audio playback, but since that's a recurring problem on my setup, I don't know if that's due to your code or not.

Good to know Linux works - I know about the inventory flicker (lazy temp coding!) Sound seems to be a problem generally - I wonder if there's a 'work-anywhere' sound system I don't know about...

2. As  thijs mentioned,  try to make the game support JOGL(or lwjgl)  if you are not sticking with      Java 1.1.
(jvm 1.1 is a dying,  MS will nolonger support it after the end of 2007)
As an alternative you could support JOGL rendering, which support applets.
I'm looking at adding JOGL support but I want to be sure the software version runs ok first! 10fps sux  Sad

I'm going to make the following control suggestions though:
  • Rip off the WoW control scheme, use Q for strafe left, E for strafe right. It works pretty well. And use .
  • Use R for the reverse view, makes more sense anyway
  • Make the camera turn left/right a liiiitttle bit faster when you're using the mouse. I think up/down goes faster than left/right, they should be the same speed. Slow it down for the zoom though

I'm wondering about customisable keys and mouse sensitivity - guess I'll need to add an options screen!

People make games and games make people
Offline g666

Junior Member





« Reply #6 - Posted 2007-02-22 17:12:01 »

on firefox on windows xp with a x2 3800+

i got average of 15fps, but it felt like it was alot more, it looked very flickery tho, i would prefer to play at the smaller resolution rather than scaling it up i think.

pretty impressive little demo.

desperately seeking sanity
Offline SimonH
« Reply #7 - Posted 2007-02-23 21:01:21 »

Just posted up version 0.0.2 at same address;

  • MipMapping added
  • Sound system improved - should be OK on linux now...
  • Mouse sensitivity improved
  • 'Small view' option added for slower machines

Keep the comments & suggestions coming!

People make games and games make people
Offline CommanderKeith
« Reply #8 - Posted 2007-02-24 01:01:55 »

Wow, it's great.  I think keeping it in software rendering is a good idea since it actually works.

It would be great if you could increase the weapon responsiveness.  When I click to shoot the bow & arrow or swing the sword there's a minor delay in the sound and graphics before anything happens.

Amazing job, well done, I wish I could do 3D like that.

Keith

PS: The mouse aimer is a quite a bit too high in the window, so to hit anything with the sword you need to be looking straight down at it.

Offline SimonH
« Reply #9 - Posted 2007-02-24 01:46:54 »

It would be great if you could increase the weapon responsiveness.  When I click to shoot the bow & arrow or swing the sword there's a minor delay in the sound and graphics before anything happens.
Yeah, I know what you mean but I need to keep the timing if multiplayer's going to work OK :- you've hit on one of the critical issues...

The mouse aimer is a quite a bit too high in the window, so too hit anything with the sword you need to be looking straight down at it.
You don't really; sword swipes aren't aimed at all - anything in the way just gets hit. It's another good point though. People will assume you need to aim that way (sigh). Why isn't there a decent mouselook system in java? Maybe I should hide the crosshair for melee weapons...

People make games and games make people
Games published by our own members! Check 'em out!
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Offline SimonH
« Reply #10 - Posted 2007-02-26 15:24:12 »

Version 0.0.3 posted;

  • Now supports all screen resolutions.
  • FPS counter more accurate.

People make games and games make people
Offline gouessej
« Reply #11 - Posted 2007-02-26 15:47:08 »

Thanks Guys!

Good to know Linux works - I know about the inventory flicker (lazy temp coding!) Sound seems to be a problem generally - I wonder if there's a 'work-anywhere' sound system I don't know about...
I'm looking at adding JOGL support but I want to be sure the software version runs ok first! 10fps sux  Sad

I'm wondering about customisable keys and mouse sensitivity - guess I'll need to add an options screen!


Excellent!!! If you use JOGL, it will be even faster and more playable. Your game is quite fun, you're not an artist but you have done your best. It flickers a bit. If you need some help or advice to use JOGL, I'm here. I have been converting a game which mainly used AWT and Swing into JOGL and the result begins being interesting. Do you know d3caster? I'm improving the 3D engine right now. I think that you have a good base, your game is pleasant, go on working! Good job!!

Offline SimonH
« Reply #12 - Posted 2007-02-27 16:21:08 »

Vers. 0.0.4 posted;

  • First 2 missions can now be finished and link together.
  • Healthbar & Spellbar flicker removed.
  • Player can now heal themselves by casting 'heal' directly on their character.
  • Additional attack route added to Keep mission.

People make games and games make people
Offline Roninator

Senior Newbie





« Reply #13 - Posted 2007-02-28 01:54:45 »

That was awsome!!!!
I loved the missons but i cant figure out what to do in the second one (The 1st Dungeon).
I found one bug where is you jum before you die you die in the air and your health bar starts from the right and goes left (it looks like negative health).    I think you should also make the controls different: Q and E to strafe, W,A,S,D and/or arrow keys to move,and the rest the same.
This game is sweeeet!!! Keep up the good work!
Offline g666

Junior Member





« Reply #14 - Posted 2007-02-28 13:42:53 »

I found it hard to get interested in the gameplay, how about turning it into a mario cart ish kindoff game?

desperately seeking sanity
Offline gouessej
« Reply #15 - Posted 2007-02-28 17:02:43 »

Hi. Do you use the 3D engine called "jPCT"?? Do you plan using JOGL one day? Good luck.

Offline SimonH
« Reply #16 - Posted 2007-02-28 17:35:13 »

I think you should also make the controls different: Q and E to strafe, W,A,S,D and/or arrow keys to move,and the rest the same.
Point taken - I'll change the keys to Q & E to strafe & R to look behind.

I found it hard to get interested in the gameplay, how about turning it into a mario cart ish kindoff game?
Maybe next game!

Hi. Do you use the 3D engine called "jPCT"?? Do you plan using JOGL one day?
Yeah, jPCT (www.jpct.net) is free and pretty good given the small jar size. It does support LWJGL, but I think there's issues about using this in an applet... I'd rather keep it simple.


People make games and games make people
Offline gouessej
« Reply #17 - Posted 2007-03-01 11:27:38 »

What about using Java Web Start? It would allow you to use JOGL inside an applet and it would be easy for the users to install the librairies. Nevertheless, jPCT uses LWJGL. If you really want to keep it simple as you said, you may prefer using a 3D engine rather than build your one engine. Thank you for the modifications on the keyboard configuation.  Grin

Offline SimonH
« Reply #18 - Posted 2007-03-03 19:49:30 »

New version 0.0.5 now posted;

  • Extra tutorial mission added.
  • Fire button now more responsive.
  • Q & E now can be used to strafe, R to look behind.
  • AI (very slightly) improved - enemies will now 'guard' some locations.

What about using Java Web Start?
I hadn't planned to do a webstart version because it works fine in a browser. The idea is to get to as many people as possible and I think maybe webstart is a bit 'techy' for the average surfer...

People make games and games make people
Offline gouessej
« Reply #19 - Posted 2007-03-05 13:56:52 »

Webstart has been designed to be very simple for the average users. I don't agree with you. It's not really "tec...".

Your game would work better as an application than inside an applet. I can proove it. As I said, I've been programming a game with JOGL but I started from the source of Vincent Stahl who used only AWT inside an applet. When I converted his applet into an application, the performance increased noticeably, not hugely because the slowdowns in my case depended on other factors. That's why I think that it could be interesting for your game.

Don't forget that Webstart is integrated in JRE 1.6 and many people use it with JRE 1.4 and 1.5. Webstart would require only a few modifications in your code, I suppose, only modifications in the files loading process. Nevertheless, you know better than me if it would really be interesting to do it.

Finally, do you plan to use only jPCT or to write your own engine one day? That's not a critic, only a question as I respect your game. I sometimes play with it and according to the number of replies, I'm not alone in this case.

Offline SimonH
« Reply #20 - Posted 2007-03-05 15:45:06 »

Webstart has been designed to be very simple for the average users. I don't agree with you. It's not really "tec...".

Your game would work better as an application than inside an applet. I can proove it. As I said, I've been programming a game with JOGL but I started from the source of Vincent Stahl who used only AWT inside an applet. When I converted his applet into an application, the performance increased noticeably, not hugely because the slowdowns in my case depended on other factors. That's why I think that it could be interesting for your game.

Don't forget that Webstart is integrated in JRE 1.6 and many people use it with JRE 1.4 and 1.5. Webstart would require only a few modifications in your code, I suppose, only modifications in the files loading process. Nevertheless, you know better than me if it would really be interesting to do it.
I know what you mean but there's two things that worry me: Firstly, many people are (rightly) nervous of the 'This program can harm your computer' popups that come with Webstart. In my experience most 'ordinary' (ie non-programming) surfers will always click 'No'. I'm forever telling people 'If in doubt don't run it' - I can't expect them to go against good advice! Once they've played it a few times without any security risk they're much more likely to install the applet certificate to allow them to play multiplayer.
Secondly I know that if I do a Webstart version I'll start to focus on that (because it's prettier and faster) so the applet will start to slide down the agenda. Then there's the issue of maintaining more than one codebase &c, &c.

Finally, do you plan to use only jPCT or to write your own engine one day? That's not a critic, only a question as I respect your game. I sometimes play with it and according to the number of replies, I'm not alone in this case.
I'd love to do a dedicated graphics engine but I doubt I could better jPCT - he's spent years getting it right. I really don't want to get side-tracked from my guiding principle: Good gameplay beats good graphics every time. Look at Runescape: terrible graphics, but 150,000 people play it every day!

People make games and games make people
Offline thijs

Junior Member




Lava games rock!


« Reply #21 - Posted 2007-03-05 18:39:02 »

Quote
I know what you mean but there's two things that worry me: Firstly, many people are (rightly) nervous of the 'This program can harm your computer' popups that come with Webstart.

I second that, applets are much more accepted for webgames than webstart. Though applets lost a lot of ground to flash and shockwave... some portals wont even host applets these days Sad

<a href="http://www.dzzd.net">3DzzD!</a>
<a href="http://www.arcazoid.com">Arcazoid!</a>
Offline SimonH
« Reply #22 - Posted 2007-03-08 01:42:36 »

Version 0.0.6 now up;

  • Overall AI improved.
  • 'Keep' mission map made fairer for svarts.
  • 'Dungeon' mission now completable - (but maybe too easy with that door?)

Any gameplay suggestions or ideas for new missions most welcome!

People make games and games make people
Offline gouessej
« Reply #23 - Posted 2007-03-08 08:58:39 »

There is an intermediate solution : using an (unsigned) applet with JOGL and without Webstart. Do you know the class JOGLAppletLauncher?

Look at what is on the Sun's website :

"This class enables deployment of high-end applets which use OpenGL for 3D graphics via JOGL and (optionally) OpenAL for spatialized audio via JOAL. The applet being deployed may be either signed or unsigned; if it is unsigned, it runs inside the security sandbox, and if it is signed, the user receives a security dialog to accept the certificate for the applet as well as for JOGL and JOAL.

The steps for deploying such applets are straightforward. First, the "archive" parameter to the applet tag must contain jogl.jar and gluegen-rt.jar, as well as any jar files associated with your applet (in this case, "your_applet.jar").

Second, the codebase directory on the server, which contains the applet's jar files, must also contain jogl.jar, gluegen-rt.jar, and all of the jogl-natives-*.jar and gluegen-rt-natives-*.jar files from the standard JOGL and GlueGen runtime distributions (provided in jogl-[version]-webstart.zip from the JOGL release builds and gluegen-rt-[version]-webstart.zip from the GlueGen runtime release builds). Note that the codebase of the applet is currently the location from which the JOGL native library used by the applet is downloaded. All of the JOGL and GlueGen-related jars must be signed by the same entity, which is typically Sun Microsystems, Inc.

To deploy an applet using both JOGL and JOAL, simply add joal.jar to the list of jars in the archive tag of the applet, and put joal.jar and the joal-natives-*.jar signed jars into the same codebase directory on the web server. These signed jars are supplied in the joal-[version]-webstart.zip archive from the JOAL release builds.

Sample applet code:

 <applet code="com.sun.opengl.util.JOGLAppletLauncher"
      width=600
      height=400
      codebase="/lib"
      archive="jogl.jar,gluegen-rt.jar,your_applet.jar">
   <param name="subapplet.classname" VALUE="untrusted.JOGLApplet">
   <param name="subapplet.displayname" VALUE="My JOGL Applet">
   <param name="progressbar" value="true">
   <param name="cache_archive" VALUE="jogl.jar,gluegen-rt.jar,your_applet.jar">
   <param name="cache_archive_ex" VALUE="jogl.jar;preload,gluegen-rt.jar;preload,your_applet.jar;preload">
 </applet>
 "


Online EgonOlsen
« Reply #24 - Posted 2007-03-08 10:16:02 »

This thread isn't about Jogl, the engine doesn't use Jogl but LWJGL and Jogl is not the only shiny new hammer in the world...so why do you insist on that Jogl thing?

Offline SimonH
« Reply #25 - Posted 2007-03-08 14:38:07 »

so why do you insist on that Jogl thing?
Easy Egon! I think guoessej is just trying to be helpful! All suggestions are welcome as far as I'm concerned, whether I implement them or not...
I don't plan to go to openGL for the time being - software rendering has the advantage of working everywhere and has a faster loading time as there's no additional libraries to include. I'm focussing on gameplay rather than graphics ATM - if only I can give people that 'oo-er' feeling I got when I first played Doom all those years ago then I'll be a happy bunny!

People make games and games make people
Offline gouessej
« Reply #26 - Posted 2007-03-12 16:10:41 »

At the beginning of this thread, you suggested to use JOGL, it was only a suggestion... JOGL is more stable and will be integrated in the future release of Java. Therefore, it may be interesting to use it instead of LWJGL. I rarely use Microsoft Windows but when I played with Jake 2 (LWJGL version), the graphics driver had the computer crashed. SimonH is open minded. As JOGL will become standard, it will have "the advantage of working everywhere and a faster loading time". On my view, JOGL is really the only way to produce excellent 3D graphics in a stable environment with Java.

SimonH is right and humble. He focuses on gameplay in order to drive his game funnier, I respect his choice. I hope that other people won't have to choose between graphics ATM and gameplay by using a good engine and maybe mine when it is really "ready". Don't forget that LWJGL can work inside an applet since LWJGL 1.0 Beta 2, look at LWJGLInstaller and you only have to add this to install librairies if necessary :
try {
  LWJGLInstaller.tempInstall();
} catch (Exception le) {
 /* handle exception */
}
Good luck.

Offline SimonH
« Reply #27 - Posted 2007-03-19 18:15:33 »

Version 0.0.7 just posted with a new NPC and a new single-player level added;

  • New solo mission 'Town' (with 2 levels of difficulty).
  • New spider NPC added.
  • Crosshair removed for melee weapons.
  • AI further improved.
  • Game scripting improved.
  • Some textures improved.

If anyone fancies building a level for me please let me know! I'll give the artist full credit in the game...

People make games and games make people
Offline sjsayers

Junior Newbie





« Reply #28 - Posted 2007-03-20 00:18:35 »

I think this is some awesome work . It may be lacking here and there but I am a 'big picture' kind of person and I believe there is some potential. Keep up the good work!
Offline SimonH
« Reply #29 - Posted 2007-03-20 00:41:52 »

Thanks for comments sj! Tell me where it's lacking though - I want the best I can do! Don't spare my feelings, right is right!

People make games and games make people
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