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  Bloodridge  (Read 30688 times)
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Offline erikd

JGO Ninja


Medals: 16
Projects: 4
Exp: 14 years


Maximumisness


« Reply #30 - Posted 2007-03-20 14:23:55 »

Quote
On my view, JOGL is really the only way to produce excellent 3D graphics in a stable environment with Java.
You're entitled to an opinion, but don't forget there have been multiple award winning commercial games produced using LWJGL. For me that's proof enough against your statement.
If you experienced some crash, it was probably a bug in the game or video driver, not in the binding.

Offline SimonH
« Reply #31 - Posted 2007-03-21 03:53:20 »

there have been multiple award winning commercial games produced using LWJGL
But the most successful java game; Runescape, uses software rendering... Why is every one so hot on OpenGL? If good graphics are everything (as gamers lore would have it) how come a visually weak game like Runescape has (does quick check) 83424 players as I write?
Personally I'm impressed with the software rendering of the jPCT API - it's not the Unreal engine but it runs well in a browser. I'm convinced that people want games within the browser they know and love and I want Bloodridge working there, so it's software rendering for the foreseeable...

Please don't turn this thread into a JOGL v. LWJGL debate - Comments and suggestions on the game and gameplay, please!

People make games and games make people
Offline EgonOlsen
« Reply #32 - Posted 2007-03-21 06:46:20 »

Personally I'm impressed with the software rendering of the jPCT API - it's not the Unreal engine...
But at least it uses the exact same filtering algorithm... Grin

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Offline gouessej
« Reply #33 - Posted 2007-03-21 09:18:50 »

You're entitled to an opinion, but don't forget there have been multiple award winning commercial games produced using LWJGL. For me that's proof enough against your statement.
If you experienced some crash, it was probably a bug in the game or video driver, not in the binding.

No, it wasn't a problem in the video driver. There are some conflicts between OpenGL and DirectDraw under Microsoft Windows. It is no more a problem if you use JOGL with at least JRE 1.6. I tested the same game with several computers under Microsoft Windows but with different graphics cards (Radeon 9200, Rage pro maxx, Millenium G450, Geforce 6800 Ultra) from different vendors (Matrox,ATI and NVIDIA). Yes, you're right on one precise point, I tested only one game. But my experiments prooved at least that it is highly improbable to be a problem of drivers. If I were entitled to an opinion, I would not perform some experiments to check if you're right.

Offline gouessej
« Reply #34 - Posted 2007-03-21 09:29:01 »

But the most successful java game; Runescape, uses software rendering... Why is every one so hot on OpenGL? If good graphics are everything (as gamers lore would have it) how come a visually weak game like Runescape has (does quick check) 83424 players as I write?
Personally I'm impressed with the software rendering of the jPCT API - it's not the Unreal engine but it runs well in a browser. I'm convinced that people want games within the browser they know and love and I want Bloodridge working there, so it's software rendering for the foreseeable...

Please don't turn this thread into a JOGL v. LWJGL debate - Comments and suggestions on the game and gameplay, please!

Your game is really good! But OpenGL could allow you to improve the gameplay. It would be quicker and then more pleasant to play. I suggested you a way to use OpenGL in an applet so what prevents you from thinking about it? I hope it is only the difficulty of writing an engine. I don't tell you that good graphics are enough to make a good game but it can help.
About your game, could you improve a very little bit the collision system please? Sometimes, the arms of the warrior go through the wall.
Could you find a way of improving the aiming system? I find the bow is hard to use.

Offline SimonH
« Reply #35 - Posted 2007-03-21 14:10:16 »

About your game, could you improve a very little bit the collision system please? Sometimes, the arms of the warrior go through the wall.
Oops! Funny the things you can overlook! Now fixed for next version - thanks!
 
Could you find a way of improving the aiming system? I find the bow is hard to use.
You're right again. I'm looking at this ATM - it's a strikeoff between ease of aiming and weapon strength...

People make games and games make people
Offline erikd

JGO Ninja


Medals: 16
Projects: 4
Exp: 14 years


Maximumisness


« Reply #36 - Posted 2007-03-22 19:19:46 »

But the most successful java game; Runescape, uses software rendering... Why is every one so hot on OpenGL? If good graphics are everything (as gamers lore would have it) how come a visually weak game like Runescape has (does quick check) 83424 players as I write?
Personally I'm impressed with the software rendering of the jPCT API - it's not the Unreal engine but it runs well in a browser. I'm convinced that people want games within the browser they know and love and I want Bloodridge working there, so it's software rendering for the foreseeable...

Please don't turn this thread into a JOGL v. LWJGL debate - Comments and suggestions on the game and gameplay, please!

FWIW, I'm not trying to turn this into a JOGL v. LWJGL debate, I'm just responding to some suggestion that JOGL is the way to go to make commercial grade OGL games because that's simply not true. I'm sorry for the off-topic comment but I felt this particular pro-JOGL/anti-LWJGL comment might make people give a wrong impression and will make people make decisions based on FUD (without trying to imply any bad intentions of the poster of said comments). Let's just keep it at that Smiley

You made the decision to go for sw rendering using the impressive jPCT library, which is a good choice because sw rendering 'just works', and especially because with jPCT you have the option to use OGL for rendering too.
I personally agree with gouessej though that using OGL might increase playability because you will get better framerates. The framerates I was getting were a bit on the low side (about 10-15) which I felt really did affect gameplay in your action oriented game (which Runescape is not).

You games shows a lot of potential though, so I'll keep following development of this. Hopefully there will be a version some day with an OGL option  Wink

Offline SimonH
« Reply #37 - Posted 2007-03-23 02:49:39 »

You made the decision to go for sw rendering using the impressive jPCT library, which is a good choice because sw rendering 'just works'
Exactly. People don't come back; If it doesn't work first time they don't bother again. I've followed the forums and found many problems with OGL applets. Bloodridge has been played from this forum over 100 times and not one crash reported - long live software rendering! Having said that, I'd really love to up the framerate and graphics quality... OpenGL: you speak to my heart, but my head says no...

BTW I'm experimenting with an auto-aiming system and it totally changes the gameplay - Doom, Tomb Raider &c. were heavily dependant on autoaim but Wolfenstein, Thief &c. relied on aiming skill - here's another critical design issue...

People make games and games make people
Offline erikd

JGO Ninja


Medals: 16
Projects: 4
Exp: 14 years


Maximumisness


« Reply #38 - Posted 2007-03-23 11:01:25 »

Yes, afaik there are still compatibility issues with OGL & applets. Since jPCT does support OGL already it might still be interesting to give it a go, maybe as a webstarted version too (which I think has less compatibility problems),  marked with 'Beta, for OpenGL enabled computers only' or something like that. I'm quite sure the people who will have it working (the majority), will enjoy your game more.
But whatever you decide, you will always have the current, reliable software rendered version...

fwiw, I almost exclusively use JWS, and my games are started about a 1000 times a day without getting much complaints about using JWS instead of applets (although I have to admit I do get them once a month or so). I'm choosing JWS + full-screen OpenGL using LWJGL because I'm mainly interested in getting the best gameplay experience and since I don't have any commercial intentions atm, I 'kind of' accept the fact that it won't work on each and every computer.

Auto aiming might be cool, I'm guessing it could make gameplay more frantic, right?

Offline SimonH
« Reply #39 - Posted 2007-03-23 15:50:44 »

Version 0.0.8 now up;

  • Auto-aiming implemented.
  • Collision detection improved.
  • Edit: Right mouse button/ctrl can now be held down for continuous fire.

The auto-aiming does change the game a lot - the bow becomes much better and the bombs (weapon 4) less useful!
I've included an option to turn it off - which do you guys prefer?

People make games and games make people
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Offline EgonOlsen
« Reply #40 - Posted 2007-03-23 16:13:33 »

How does auto-aiming work? I have a checkbox for enabling/disabling it in the new version but i can't spot the difference. I'm still firing arrows into the sky even with auto-aiming enabled and enemies in front of me... Huh

Offline SimonH
« Reply #41 - Posted 2007-03-23 16:25:52 »

How does auto-aiming work? I have a checkbox for enabling/disabling it in the new version but i can't spot the difference. I'm still firing arrows into the sky even with auto-aiming enabled and enemies in front of me... Huh

Strange! The crosshair should jump to any nearby enemies and change to a targeting cross... Seems to work fine for me - Where in the game is the problem most evident?

People make games and games make people
Offline EgonOlsen
« Reply #42 - Posted 2007-03-23 16:56:20 »

Where in the game is the problem most evident?
I've tried the town-mission. The crosshair stays up in the air (and the arrows fly there, too) while the spiders are attacking me.

Offline jankoM

Senior Newbie





« Reply #43 - Posted 2007-03-23 17:47:05 »

I played again too. Now I was even able to get over the first mission...

Egon... you should click and drag to move the aim around... auto-aiming works when you are aiming very close to the target and then aim jumps to target...

some feedback...
It is very hard to aim and do anything right in this game for me... I can't get used to drag to move aiming pointer.... it if would work mith just moving the mouse without LMB and if hero would sidewalk on A and D and not rotate it would be much better...

Also dragging an aim all the way to myself and shoot at myself to heal me felt a little non-obvious. if autoaim would be more analog (maybe swing a little forth and back) and would take effect much earlier (more farther away) then it would maybe be better for IMO.

I very mich like the lightmaps on town level... it gives good ambiental feeling even with such low resolution.

Offline SimonH
« Reply #44 - Posted 2007-03-23 17:55:16 »

I've tried the town-mission. The crosshair stays up in the air (and the arrows fly there, too) while the spiders are attacking me.
You still have to aim - the crosshair should lock on when it's near an enemy. Is that the problem?

It is very hard to aim and do anything right in this game for me... I can't get used to drag to move aiming pointer.... it if would work mith just moving the mouse without LMB and if hero would sidewalk on A and D and not rotate it would be much better...
I agree, but in an applet you can't capture the mouse for full mouselook (more's the pity!) A & D do strafe with the LMB down...


People make games and games make people
Offline jankoM

Senior Newbie





« Reply #45 - Posted 2007-03-23 18:06:24 »

Hmm... so if I ducktape the LMB down then I get the game I want Smiley. I will try and report you soon.

Offline EgonOlsen
« Reply #46 - Posted 2007-03-23 18:06:53 »

You still have to aim - the crosshair should lock on when it's near an enemy. Is that the problem?
I agree, but in an applet you can't capture the mouse for full mouselook (more's the pity!) A & D do strafe with the LMB down...
Yes. I expected it to be more "auto" than it actually is... Wink But it's still quite confusing to move around, aim and shoot at a time. Because capturing the mouse isn't an option, maybe something like Jade Empire does is: It locks you onto a target as soon as a battle begins and everything that you do (kicking, firing...) is done to that target from there on. If you want to switch targets or move around freely, you can do this too, but if you don't, you can concentrate on battling that one target without having to care about aiming or focusing the target. Works very well.

Offline jankoM

Senior Newbie





« Reply #47 - Posted 2007-03-23 18:12:32 »

What if you make it so that mouse (without lmb down) moves only the aim around current view and if you click somewhere your view changes so that it centers to that point? (just a thought ... I am not expert in this)

Offline EgonOlsen
« Reply #48 - Posted 2007-03-23 18:22:10 »

And how about adding an option to play with full screen size but without the pixel doubling? My Core2 Duo cpu can handle software rendered scenes at that full resolution at 20fps, so i could use that to improve image quality.

Offline SimonH
« Reply #49 - Posted 2007-03-23 20:39:14 »

And how about adding an option to play with full screen size but without the pixel doubling? My Core2 Duo cpu can handle software rendered scenes at that full resolution at 20fps, so i could use that to improve image quality.
I hear and obey! New vers. 0.0.9 posted with hi-res option.

maybe something like Jade Empire
You could well be right - I think I need to do a test version where the player locks onto an enemy in this way and see how it plays...

People make games and games make people
Offline EgonOlsen
« Reply #50 - Posted 2007-03-23 21:20:26 »

I hear and obey! New vers. 0.0.9 posted with hi-res option.
Works great with a steady 20fps... Grin

Offline SimonH
« Reply #51 - Posted 2007-03-24 01:46:23 »

Cool - Good suggestion!  Grin

People make games and games make people
Offline SimonH
« Reply #52 - Posted 2007-03-24 20:09:36 »

Version 0.0.10 posted;

Here's a treat for the weekend: weapon 7, a flamethrower! Toast those spiders!

People make games and games make people
Offline nva225

Junior Member





« Reply #53 - Posted 2007-03-24 20:18:11 »

And how about adding an option to play with full screen size but without the pixel doubling? My Core2 Duo cpu can handle software rendered scenes at that full resolution at 20fps, so i could use that to improve image quality.

Ahh core duos. Wonderful processors  Cheesy

Edit: Commenting on recent update. Flamethrower looks cool but I feel like I should be able to move and cast it at the same time. Practicing on the little dummy things it's not drastically overpowering vs the sword but you lose the ability to move. Could you experiment with adding this, maybe make the mana go down a bit faster?
Offline Roninator

Senior Newbie





« Reply #54 - Posted 2007-03-25 16:10:55 »

This game is GREAT!!
I think it is one of the best games on this forum!
If i was you all id work on now is:
New levels
New spells
Maybe even multiplayer?

Anyway, this is awsome!
Offline woogley
« Reply #55 - Posted 2007-03-25 18:18:09 »

the flamethrower is a great add

keep it up
Offline SimonH
« Reply #56 - Posted 2007-03-26 15:09:45 »

Flamethrower looks cool but I feel like I should be able to move and cast it at the same time. Practicing on the little dummy things it's not drastically overpowering vs the sword but you lose the ability to move. Could you experiment with adding this, maybe make the mana go down a bit faster?
Yup! Just posted version 0.0.11. You can now move while flaming & I've made it twice as powerful and use twice as much manna as before.

People make games and games make people
Offline PeterB

Junior Member





« Reply #57 - Posted 2007-03-27 01:12:24 »


This is a pretty fun game! Keep getting killed by those svarts though!

Game froze after restarting the town level for a third time:

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loading character data file - please wait...
char loaded:healthcrystal
jim has spawned at (0.0,-5.9999924,-110.0) status=3
a spider has ressurected at (108.0,-5.999995,-260.0) status=3
a spider has ressurected at (-201.0,-5.9999895,-431.0) status=3
a spider has ressurected at (-435.0,-71.99999,-964.0) status=3
a svart has ressurected at (-462.0,-71.999985,-358.0) status=3
a svart has ressurected at (-1285.0,-71.99998,-334.0) status=3
a svart has ressurected at (-1895.0,22.000017,-648.0) status=3
Exception in thread "Thread-6" java.lang.NullPointerException
   at o.a(Unknown Source)
   at v.run(Unknown Source)
   at java.lang.Thread.run(Unknown Source)

Vault101 / Mace The Game
There are 10 kinds of people in the world. Those who understand binary and those who don't.
Offline SimonH
« Reply #58 - Posted 2007-03-27 01:40:33 »

This is a pretty fun game! Keep getting killed by those svarts though!
Those svarts are tough! I think the last one in town (with the bombs) is maybe too much for the easy level - even I can't get by him every time!

Game froze after restarting the town level for a third time
My first bug Cry Thanks for report though! I traced the crash to the missile tick event - did it crash immediately it loaded or did any weapon get used first?

People make games and games make people
Offline SimonH
« Reply #59 - Posted 2007-03-28 18:18:34 »

Minor update 0.0.12;

  • Health gems added to town.
  • Firing made more responsive.

People make games and games make people
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