Problems getting started

[jpilgrim]

Hi all,

I've just checked out the latest CVS head of xith and xith-tk. I imported the projects into Eclipse,
while xith is already an Eclipse project, I made xith-tk one. Now I've got some problems getting started:

- the document http://www.xith.org/pages/installing_xith3d.html seems to be outdated
- the getting started tutorial does not exist (?) (http://xith.org/tutes.php#GettingStarted)
- running the pure ant file (without modifying anything) fails in xith-tk, e.g."ant full" is not working
- I didn't find some demo classes, e.g. com.xith3d.test.CubeTest

Also I've got some questions concerning the files in CVS:
- why is xith3d.jar included in the repository since it's a build artifact, same is true
  for xith-tk
- hial.jar is included in xith-tk/lib and xith-tk/third-party. The first should be
  removed since it seems to be an elder version (at least the project is not compiling with that version)

When running a test (e.g. BaseTest), the program (or java) crashes after some time or it hangs with a gray screen.
After adding
   -DXITH3D_USE_VERTEX_BUFFER_CACHING=FALSE
it worked. Why did I have to add this and what can I do enable that feature? Unfortunately all web start demos aren't running, I guess due to this feature.

Jens

[Marvin Fröhlich]

- the document http://www.xith.org/pages/installing_xith3d.html seems to be outdated

It certainly is.

- the getting started tutorial does not exist (?) (http://xith.org/tutes.php#GettingStarted)

Don't know where you got this link from, but is does exist: http://xith.org/tutes/GettingStarted/html/index.html
But it's really outdated. Please refer to "Xith3D in a nutshell" (XIN) which you may find in the docs/xin folder in xith-tk repository (and will be hopefully soon released on xith.org).

- I didn't find some demo classes, e.g. com.xith3d.test.CubeTest

All test and demos have been moved to xith-tk (org.xith3d.test...) and demo demo resources reside in demo/

- why is xith3d.jar included in the repository since it's a build artifact, same is true
  for xith-tk

xith3d.jar and xith-tk.jar are in the libs folder, where the compiled versions reside. It is not always (or almost never) recent. As far as I am converned, we can remove it from CVS (or SVN next week), since You don't need it for active development and for a release it will anyway be rebuilt. Let's wait for some other folks (like Amos) and see what they think about it.

- hial.jar is included in xith-tk/lib and xith-tk/third-party. The first should be
  removed since it seems to be an elder version (at least the project is not compiling with that version)

Removed.

When running a test (e.g. BaseTest), the program (or java) crashes after some time or it hangs with a gray screen.
After adding
   -DXITH3D_USE_VERTEX_BUFFER_CACHING=FALSE
it worked. Why did I have to add this and what can I do enable that feature? Unfortunately all web start demos aren't running, I guess due to this feature.

I don't know this feature (flag). It is working for me without switching it off and I haven't heard of anyone having this problem. Maybe it's due to your hardware. But maybe someone else can tell you more about it.

Hope, I could help you

Marvin

[cylab]

xith3d.jar and xith-tk.jar are in the libs folder, where the compiled versions reside. It is not always (or almost never) recent. As far as I am converned, we can remove it from CVS (or SVN next week), since You don't need it for active development and for a release it will anyway be rebuilt. Let's wait for some other folks (like Amos) and see what they think about it.

+1 from me for removing them.

Compiled binaries from project sources should IMHO never reside in an CVS/SVN repository. They should be present in downloadable releases, but thats a different matter. I suspect they were added by accident. Netbeans (did?) tend to do something like that if you don't setup proper cvs ignore files.

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[cylab]

When running a test (e.g. BaseTest), the program (or java) crashes after some time or it hangs with a gray screen.
After adding
   -DXITH3D_USE_VERTEX_BUFFER_CACHING=FALSE
it worked. Why did I have to add this and what can I do enable that feature? Unfortunately all web start demos aren't running, I guess due to this feature.

I don't know this feature (flag). It is working for me without switching it off and I haven't heard of anyone having this problem. Maybe it's due to your hardware. But maybe someone else can tell you more about it.

This flag is used in the ShapeAtomPeer classes and it seems they are used to check wether the shapes should be uploaded every frame or if they can be cached in the VRAM of the gfx card using VBOs.

I found a commented check on OpenGL 1.4 regarding this Option in the JSR CanvasPeerImpl

1   2   3   4   5   6   7   8

/*         if (openGlVersion.startsWith("1.4") || true){             if (showInfos){                 System.out.println("OpenGL 1.4 detected : disabling Vertex Buffer Caching");             }             getRenderOptions().setOption(Option.USE_VERTEX_BUFFER_CACHING, false);         }         */

So maybe your OpenGL version is not sufficient.

The code was however commented out because of the OpenGlExtensions.ARB_vertex_buffer_object checks in the ShapeAtomPeer classes, so it was redundant and the commenting should not have caused any difference, so I also suspect it's a driver issue... Have you updated to the latest drivers for your card? Have you tried both renderers?

[Marvin Fröhlich]

Have you tried both renderers?

You won't have much luck with LWJGL. I found it broken so many times. And it was broken before I started to do the multipass stuff and it is even more broken now. I'll fix it the next days.

Marvin

[Marvin Fröhlich]

xith3d.jar and xith-tk.jar are in the libs folder, where the compiled versions reside. It is not always (or almost never) recent. As far as I am converned, we can remove it from CVS (or SVN next week), since You don't need it for active development and for a release it will anyway be rebuilt. Let's wait for some other folks (like Amos) and see what they think about it.

I guess we can even remove the whole libs folders (in both projects).

[Marvin Fröhlich]

@jpilgrim btw... have you included the xith3d.jar into the xith-tk eclipse project or have you linked the xith3d project into the xith-tk project? I'd really advise to do the latter.

[Amos Wenger]

@jpilgrim btw... have you included the xith3d.jar into the xith-tk eclipse project or have you linked the xith3d project into the xith-tk project? I'd really advise to do the latter.

Wait I just commited the .project and .classpath eclipse files for xith-tk (xith3d one were already there).

So what anyone has to do to start developing with xith3d is just check all that out. And that's it. All classpaths set up, all right.

I've just checked out the latest CVS head of xith and xith-tk. I imported the projects into Eclipse,
while xith is already an Eclipse project, I made xith-tk one.

Fixed.

- the document http://www.xith.org/pages/installing_xith3d.html seems to be outdated

It is, and should be rewritten. Are you interested in doing that ? You are currently installing Xith3D so when it's done you'll have sufficient knowledge.. writing about it will make you even more familiar with the process.

- the getting started tutorial does not exist (?) (http://xith.org/tutes.php#GettingStarted)

Tell me, where did you get that link ? Here is the html link : http://xith.org/tutes/GettingStarted/html/index.html and here's the PDF : http://xith.org/tutes/GettingStarted/getting_started_guide.pdf
The links are given here clearly : http://www.xith.org/pages/documentation.html

- running the pure ant file (without modifying anything) fails in xith-tk, e.g."ant full" is not working

Please provide the errors messages.

- I didn't find some demo classes, e.g. com.xith3d.test.CubeTest

There are in the toolkit = xith-tk ("org." packages).

- why is xith3d.jar included in the repository since it's a build artifact, same is true
  for xith-tk

To be removed

- hial.jar is included in xith-tk/lib and xith-tk/third-party. The first should be
  removed since it seems to be an elder version (at least the project is not compiling with that version)

Done by Qudus.

When running a test (e.g. BaseTest), the program (or java) crashes after some time or it hangs with a gray screen.
After adding
   -DXITH3D_USE_VERTEX_BUFFER_CACHING=FALSE
it worked. Why did I have to add this and what can I do enable that feature? Unfortunately all web start demos aren't running, I guess due to this feature.

Which graphic card do you have and which drivers ? Can you just run a test and post the console output ?

[Marvin Fröhlich]

- why is xith3d.jar included in the repository since it's a build artifact, same is true
  for xith-tk

xith3d.jar and xith-tk.jar are in the libs folder, where the compiled versions reside. It is not always (or almost never) recent. As far as I am converned, we can remove it from CVS (or SVN next week), since You don't need it for active development and for a release it will anyway be rebuilt. Let's wait for some other folks (like Amos) and see what they think about it.

+1 from me for removing them.

To be removed

removed.

[jpilgrim]

I've updated my graphics card drivers (GeForce 5200Fx), now it should support OpenGL 2.0 -- and the tests are running without any further parameters, i.e. the feature is now enabled and everything is fine. So it was a problem with my drivers. Anyway that issue should be addressed by the framework.

I'm documenting my personal "getting started" and maybe I make a document out of it, but I can't say that for sure now.

Concerning the Eclipse project issues: I made xith3d and xith-tk plug-ins, and added a dependency from xith-tk to xith3d. I'm currently developing a graphical editor plug-in using Java3D, but due to problems in the AWT-SWT-bridge on Mac OS X I want to port all that AWT stuff to SWT. Maybe I'll change to Xith3D and port Xith3D to SWT, but I'm not sure if I've got the time for that. On the other hand I really want my editor to work on Mac OS X :-) But if I'm going to use Xith3D, I'll use it as an Eclipse plug-in.

Since may own framework is using floats, I guess Xith3D will fit better than Java3D (I've read that using floats instead of doubles is one of the differences between Xith3D and J3D). I have to run some tests before I decide to change to Xith3D. What would you say are the main differences between Xith3D and Java3D, comparing the latest versions of both frameworks? Since I'm not developing a game or animations, performance isn't a problem in my case. But I need transparency and I found the Java3D transparency to be handled very difficulty. Also the quality of 2D text is very important.

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[Amos Wenger]

Since may own framework is using floats, I guess Xith3D will fit better than Java3D (I've read that using floats instead of doubles is one of the differences between Xith3D and J3D). I have to run some tests before I decide to change to Xith3D. What would you say are the main differences between Xith3D and Java3D, comparing the latest versions of both frameworks? Since I'm not developing a game or animations, performance isn't a problem in my case. But I need transparency and I found the Java3D transparency to be handled very difficulty. Also the quality of 2D text is very important.

Java3D and Xith3D are becoming comparable in performance. Transparency is not that hard to handle in Xith3D.. it may be even more simplified, sure.. if you have a better way, suggest and implement/ask ! Everything's possible with Xith3D, remember (as long as we keep crucial backward compatibility). Text2D package is just perfect. Each time I needed I found it simple and straight.

[Marvin Fröhlich]

Have you tried both renderers?

You won't have much luck with LWJGL. I found it broken so many times. And it was broken before I started to do the multipass stuff and it is even more broken now. I'll fix it the next days.

Fixed .