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  Had my first Advanced programming class today with C++  (Read 3314 times)
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Offline K.I.L.E.R

Senior Devvie




Java games rock!


« Posted 2006-08-01 11:55:49 »

I had no maths subjects left to pick and so I chose to do advanced programming, already dropped out of Java OOP2 for a maths subject.
My friends and I were talking when someone mentioned .NET while they had the subject syllabus and so I asked, "Are you talking about C++ in Visual Studio or .NET C++ as in managed C++?". Everyone immediately responded by saying that it's the IDE.

Guess what? In class I presented the teacher with that same question and she responded by saying it was managed code.
All hope within me died. I had hoped we would be doing standard C++ that is known and used widely within the computing industry.
Anyway my second question was, "Can I use real C++?" and she said I could provided that it works in the labs(It does because I was doing computer graphics for 2 semesters).

Anyway, would this be an industrial decision enforced upon the University?
What do you guys think about this?

Almost everyone complained about this, I hope it gets changed next year but I have to put up with it for now.

Vorax:
Is there a name for a "redneck" programmer?

Jeff:
Unemployed. Wink
Offline uj

Junior Devvie





« Reply #1 - Posted 2006-08-02 04:43:31 »

What do you guys think about this?

I'm very critical to how Microsoft treats the C++ language. Static C++ with the MFC still is standard C++. How to classify managed C++ I don't know because I haven't used it but it still looks like standard C++ with a library. C++/CLI on the other hand is a total disgrace. It's no longer C++ but  a totally new language.

http://www.research.att.com/~bs/uk-objections.pdf

I can't understand how Microsft was allowed to lean on the credibility of C++ and presenting C++/CLI as a natural evolution of C++. It's so wrong! C++ is standard C++ and nothing else.

Offline tortoise

Junior Devvie




<3 Shmups


« Reply #2 - Posted 2006-09-04 14:52:53 »

C++ is slowly but surely dying. And rightly so as it's one nasty language. So I wouldn't worry much about it. Welcome to the new age of managed and often very high level languages: Java, C#, VB.NET, Ruby, etc etc...

Oh and as for managed C++, its sole purpose is to transistion legacy code to the new age and to hook back into legacy systems. It's just a stop gap and ultimately won't have much impact. I personally find managed C++ with "gcnew" and all that extra crap polluting an already messy language is a bit much.
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Legends of Yore - The Casual Retro Roguelike
Offline uj

Junior Devvie





« Reply #3 - Posted 2006-09-04 18:36:12 »

C++ is slowly but surely dying.

I believe that the day production JVM's are no longer written in C++. It's not for everything and everybody everytime but sometimes there's nothing to replace it.
Offline tortoise

Junior Devvie




<3 Shmups


« Reply #4 - Posted 2006-09-04 19:22:30 »

C++ is slowly but surely dying.

I believe that the day production JVM's are no longer written in C++.

Well, sure. To this day Fortran and Lisp are still used too. But they've become so marginalized and domain specific that most programmers don't even think about them. When was the last time you made sure Fortran and Lisp were prominently displayed on your resume?

C++ is headed in the same direction. Many, many domains that used to be completely owned by C++ have been taken over by newer languages.

I can honestly say I'd be very surprised if I ever wrote C++, professionally, again.
Offline uj

Junior Devvie





« Reply #5 - Posted 2006-09-08 18:48:21 »

I can honestly say I'd be very surprised if I ever wrote C++, professionally, again.

Well, you could if you wanted,

http://www.dedasys.com/articles/language_popularity.html
Offline uj

Junior Devvie





« Reply #6 - Posted 2006-09-09 15:05:58 »

So basically,

If you're smart, learn C++ (and C of course).

Java and C# and other modern OO languages wouldn't even exist and will not survive without C++.

C++ trancends the languages that builds on it. C++ really is much better than those languages. It's better because it supersedes what the other languages can do.

And yes I'm love with C++. It doesn't try to manage my memory. -:)
Offline tortoise

Junior Devvie




<3 Shmups


« Reply #7 - Posted 2006-09-09 15:35:35 »

So basically,

If you're smart, learn C++ (and C of course).

A less troll-bait way to put it would be

If you're smart, use the right tool for the job. Sometimes that's C++, sometimes it's not.
Offline erikd

JGO Ninja


Medals: 16
Projects: 4
Exp: 14 years


Maximumisness


« Reply #8 - Posted 2006-09-10 02:18:15 »

Quote
C++ trancends the languages that builds on it. C++ really is much better than those languages. It's better because it supersedes what the other languages can do.

And yes I'm love with C++. It doesn't try to manage my memory. -:)

Love makes blind   Tongue

Online noblemaster

« JGO Spiffy Duke »


Medals: 20
Projects: 10


Age of Conquest makes your day!


« Reply #9 - Posted 2006-09-10 03:16:27 »

Quote
C++ trancends the languages that builds on it.

assembly code rules them all!

@uj: can you show us some of your programs you wrote with C++? you did right?

Games published by our own members! Check 'em out!
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Offline Schabby

Junior Devvie




The Receding Brow Worm will eat your code!


« Reply #10 - Posted 2006-09-10 09:24:16 »

When I entered Univ. in 2001 for CompSci, the regular courses required all homework to be made with Java. The only official way to learn C/C++ was through a laboratory in which we basically developed a neural net for vowel recognition. They were maybe 30 people in this lab although we were 300 students in that term. That means that only about 10% actually learned C/C++ (probably few more by self-education). Consequently, C/C++ will have a hard time surviving when my generation drops out of university...

Johannes

PS: plz spare the comment that I should have been out of uni by now after five years. I had good reasons!  Tongue

Offline tortoise

Junior Devvie




<3 Shmups


« Reply #11 - Posted 2006-09-12 15:33:55 »

When I entered Univ. in 2001 for CompSci, the regular courses required all homework to be made with Java. The only official way to learn C/C++ was through a laboratory in which we basically developed a neural net for vowel recognition. They were maybe 30 people in this lab although we were 300 students in that term. That means that only about 10% actually learned C/C++ (probably few more by self-education). Consequently, C/C++ will have a hard time surviving when my generation drops out of university...

Learning software development is not equivalent to learning programming languages. Programming languages are to the software developer what spelling and grammar are to a writer. They are merely, basic, fundamental constructs from which much more advanced and abstract constructs are built. Anyone who feels they are very comfortable in language A but is immediately lost and intimidated when sat down in front of new language B, has a lot to learn about this field. It's much more important to understand the overarching concepts of software (and hardware) than specific languages.
Offline Breakfast

Senior Devvie




for great justice!


« Reply #12 - Posted 2006-09-12 21:04:24 »

Yes, certainly, but I think if I went back to having to manage my own memory there would be quite a lot of upset before I remembered the details of how to do it without causing horrible leaks everywhere...
Offline Mr_Light

Senior Devvie


Medals: 1


shiny.


« Reply #13 - Posted 2006-09-12 21:56:31 »

C++ is slowly but surely dying.

I believe that the day production JVM's are no longer written in C++. It's not for everything and everybody everytime but sometimes there's nothing to replace it.


assembly ->  Java no need to have some filty C(++)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JavaOS
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JNode

Yes, certainly, but I think if I went back to having to manage my own memory there would be quite a lot of upset before I remembered the details of how to do it without causing horrible leaks everywhere...
perhaps the best way to tackle this is to write some intelligent utility class that looks for stuff that isn't used and removes it from the memory, hmm wait.... Wink

It's harder to read code than to write it. - it's even harder to write readable code.

The gospel of brother Riven: "The guarantee that all bugs are in *your* code is worth gold." Amen brother a-m-e-n.
Offline zingbat

Senior Devvie




Java games rock!


« Reply #14 - Posted 2006-09-12 23:55:17 »

Theres one thing i allways wanted to find that is an i386  and above compatible assembler made in java and capable of generating machine code on the fly and save in known link formats like .dll, .obj, .lib or .a format.

There are already good java apis to generate classes dynamicaly but a native assembler generator would be very cool.

Who needs c++ for anything?
Offline kaffiene
« Reply #15 - Posted 2006-09-13 00:58:19 »

C++ is an octopus created by attaching more legs to a dog.

It's still pretty useful, thou ;o)
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