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  Microsoft: .Net Beat Java, Who's Next?  (Read 3085 times)
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Offline shawnkendall

Senior Devvie





« Posted 2006-07-28 15:21:19 »

Oh well, I guess it's "over" now.
Dunno what I'm going to do now, I guess goat farming...Wink
http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1895,1995495,00.asp

Best quote:
"J2EE has run its course," Muglia said.

Shawn Kendall
Cosmic Interactive, LLC
http://www.facebook.com/BermudaDash
Offline Evil-Devil

Senior Devvie


Medals: 2


Fir Tree Master


« Reply #1 - Posted 2006-07-28 15:28:16 »

Rofl, some time before they said that windows is more secure than linux and its usability is better than Mac Os ones.

nfc Wink
Offline kevglass

« JGO Spiffy Duke »


Medals: 212
Projects: 24
Exp: 18 years


Coder, Trainee Pixel Artist, Game Reviewer


« Reply #2 - Posted 2006-07-28 15:32:13 »

Unfortunate articles like that are what drive managers to push developers into bad decisions. Sad

Kev

Games published by our own members! Check 'em out!
Legends of Yore - The Casual Retro Roguelike
Offline beowulf03809

Junior Devvie




We live for the code, we die for the code


« Reply #3 - Posted 2006-07-28 16:10:40 »

Unfortunate articles like that are what drive managers to push developers into bad decisions. Sad

Kev

Yep.  Our e-commerce space is primarily J2EE and both our developer and support teams are very happy for that. However, we have a few managers that live and breath M$ ( ooo...SharePoint...gotta have SharePoint ! ).  They have introduced .NET for some smaller apps for no reason than the fact that they believe it's the right technology.  Of course, neither has any development or support background.  One game from desktop support and the other used to be a business analyst. 
Offline g666

Junior Devvie





« Reply #4 - Posted 2006-07-28 18:01:29 »

Quote
Bob Muglia, Microsoft's senior vice president of Server and Tools business, said Microsoft's .Net platform has outpaced Java

lol. this is microsoft talking, why wouldnt they want people to think that .net has "outpaced" java?

desperately seeking sanity
Offline nonnus29

Senior Devvie




Giving Java a second chance after ludumdare fiasco


« Reply #5 - Posted 2006-07-28 19:17:28 »

It's pretty despicable how eweek presents a microsoft vps statements as fact.

Quote
Muglia also said the Microsoft Server and Tools unit will be involved in the company's move to merge software and services. "We're incubating new things like Microsoft Managed Services," he said. "This is a great business; a business that has incredible upside."

I don't think anyone really minds if microsoft deludes itself with lies and double talk.  Maybe he's a vp because he can believe his own garbage?
Offline uj

Junior Devvie





« Reply #6 - Posted 2006-07-31 11:54:45 »

It's pretty despicable how eweek presents a microsoft vps statements as fact.

I think they make it very clear that they're referring to views expressed by Bob Muglia of Microsoft.

As I see it Java technology has only one real advantage over .NET and that's binary portability. It will be interesting to see how important that factor turns out to be. Portability has been extremely hyped by Sun but maybe reality is now beginning to creep up on them.....
Offline zero

Junior Devvie





« Reply #7 - Posted 2006-07-31 12:23:29 »

Unfortunate articles like that are what drive managers to push developers into bad decisions. Sad

I agree 100%  Cry

here is another one more related to gamedev, from the ogre wiki's alternative languages part:

Quote
.NET isn't really a language; It is family of languages.
C# ("C Sharp" or "C Pound" depending on who you ask) is a lot like Java in structure and usage, but is faster and more powerful.

Beside that never a language is faster than other, I doubt that the java runtime is slower... and if the usage of pointers in unsafe blocks stands for more powerful, well I don't know...

--------------------------
'hail to the thief'

Offline sunsett

Senior Devvie




ribbit!


« Reply #8 - Posted 2006-07-31 13:15:57 »

This is the core of double-think.  Microsoft is becoming extremely close here:

"Who controls the past, controls the future, who controls the present controls the past"

"War is Peace, Freedom is slavery, Ignorance is Strength"

It's like George Orwell was talking about Microsoft.....he was way ahead of his time. Wink
Offline swpalmer

JGO Coder


Exp: 12 years


Where's the Kaboom?


« Reply #9 - Posted 2006-07-31 13:34:51 »

The Java VM is pretty advanced these days.  I don't think that the .Net VM is better.  I've only seen a few "benchmarks" but I seem to recall Java beating .Net in all of them.
Someone should edit that wiki entry to correct the obvious pro-MS fud.


Games published by our own members! Check 'em out!
Legends of Yore - The Casual Retro Roguelike
Offline uj

Junior Devvie





« Reply #10 - Posted 2006-07-31 13:41:23 »

It's like George Orwell was talking about Microsoft.....he was way ahead of his time. Wink

Are you sure he didn't mean Sun?: In the future Java will be everywhere! Quite scary isn't it how they plotted to take over the world.
Offline uj

Junior Devvie





« Reply #11 - Posted 2006-07-31 13:51:00 »

The Java VM is pretty advanced these days.  I don't think that the .Net VM is better.  I've only seen a few "benchmarks" but I seem to recall Java beating .Net in all of them.
Someone should edit that wiki entry to correct the obvious pro-MS fud.

Are you sure Mr. Muglia was addressing any possible performance differences between the two technologies? I think he meant that Microsoft was now ahead in the hype war. Isn't that a turn of the tide worth mentioning? Previously Sun was always the undisputed hype champion.
Offline swpalmer

JGO Coder


Exp: 12 years


Where's the Kaboom?


« Reply #12 - Posted 2006-07-31 14:11:15 »

I was talking about the wiki article for Ogre mentioned a few posts up... not the original article.

Offline tortoise

Junior Devvie




<3 Shmups


« Reply #13 - Posted 2006-09-09 20:52:09 »


Beside that never a language is faster than other, I doubt that the java runtime is slower... and if the usage of pointers in unsafe blocks stands for more powerful, well I don't know...


I can understand how people conclude C# is more "powerful". C# has a lot of "gee whiz doodads" that can be cool and lead to succinct code, but all in all don't add anything of real substance to the language or the platform. using blocks are a good example: just syntactic sugar for pre-configured try/catch/finally blocks. Almost all of the doodads in C# can be done in Java, just with a tad more code. I generally prefer Java's "keep it simple and build bigger constructs out of the simplicity" over C#'s "everything and the kitchen sink" approach.

But I do like C#'s implementation of generics a lot better than Java; C# really is the better language in this aspect. I also have come to really like delegates. I used to think an interface with a single method in it is just as good as a delegate, but delegates are much more flexible. I've been coding in C# for my job for 3 years now, and my personal projects are almost always in java. There have been many a time I wished Java had delegates Smiley

Regardless, C# wouldn't be half of what it is without Java to copy from Smiley
Offline zero

Junior Devvie





« Reply #14 - Posted 2006-09-10 02:25:45 »

As you said, in general you can port any C# app to Java, that why I said its not more powerfull.

Some people think its more elegant, but this is more of a personal taste.

As you, I personally prefer the general simplicity of Java (while being as powerfull):
- One type of collections, not generic ones and ones for object as in C#
- No user defined value-types (structs), because its easy to get semantic errors with them. (If a method takes an interface as argument, you always have to get sure that a value type implementing that will not break the algorithm, ..)
- Virtual methods, which can be prevented from being overriden (final) is much nicer OO than a non-virtual default case,. (Is Java here more powerful here, or can one prevent overriding a virtual method in C#?)
- ..

Although C# has some nice syntax candies, I always have to think which languages constructs I should use (like in c++). Java's simplicity often only offers one (great) way, so I can focus on the algorithms/application. Further IMHO Microsoft tries to make C# more dynamic by introducing new language features every release. I prefer a seperate, more dynamic lanuage, like groovy is for the JVM.

On the other hand hand some addiotnal syntax stuff could not be too bad for JAVA. E.g. for one-method interfaces methods:
new Runnable { public void run () { .. } } could be reduced to  new Runnable.run() { .. } since the return value is not part of a methods signature in Java.

Anyway, I don't want to start/continue a personal taste language discussion here.. posts on this topic already could fill one sub-forum. Wink
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