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  C++ vs Java  (Read 13862 times)
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Offline Riven
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« Reply #30 - Posted 2006-11-13 15:53:10 »

In 3d games it's all about raw speed. Same for realtime simulation-software.

For GUI and (not too busy) webservers, a difference of factor 2 would hardly be noticed.

IMHO, that's not true at all. A factor of 2 performance is ALWAYS noticed. For instance, if the webserver runs twice as fast, you can use much cheaper hardware (hosting companies always have "old" servers lieing around not being used that they'll rent to you cheaper).

In a GUI you often wont. Whether it takes 0.01s or 0.02s to repaint a button or do some fancy stuff....

I meant: hosting a small website on a ultra-low-end PC (P2 / 468 / etc), for hosting-companies it's a whole other story ofcourse.

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Offline 2playgames

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« Reply #31 - Posted 2007-07-03 16:28:45 »

(this topic is old, but on the first page still, so i figured replying would be ok)

about the casino games, don't forget that they're all about making $$$, so they choose C++ (native) over Java (needs JRE) because (slightly) more people can run that, especially the less technical and intelligent sort, who are a main target of these games  Roll Eyes

Offline keldon85

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« Reply #32 - Posted 2007-07-17 10:00:42 »

Hmm, but I'm seeing lots of popular poker websites using Java applications. There's even pokerroom that lets you play online poker using a Java applet if you don't want to install the app! And that's not limited to just the free play poker either.

When it comes to games with a lot of computation, I agree with the whole MMX side of things. Without it Java is not going to be as attractive, any intensive multimedia processing task is going to rely on it.

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Offline ChrisM

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« Reply #33 - Posted 2007-07-17 14:20:56 »

In that ... it's not written in Java?

Seriously.

This caught my eye and sorry for digging up zombie threads BUT....SWG was scripted entirely in Java.  Yes, yes...I know...not really a Java game but Smiley

Offline keldon85

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« Reply #34 - Posted 2007-07-17 14:44:26 »

Scripted, but was it coded in Java?

Offline woogley
« Reply #35 - Posted 2007-07-17 18:15:18 »

Scripted, but was it coded in Java?

http://beanshell.org

close enough, especially since scripted java runs slower than JIT java

imagine if they used java for the whole thing..
Offline keldon85

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« Reply #36 - Posted 2007-07-17 19:02:48 »

http://beanshell.org

close enough, especially since scripted java runs slower than JIT java

imagine if they used java for the whole thing..
Hate to break it to you but most big games use scripting languages for high level actions and code the core of the game in C++! No RPG is coded in one language, they all use scripting languages for actions, etc.

Offline oNyx

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« Reply #37 - Posted 2007-07-17 20:48:49 »

Eh... well, they used most likely so called "dirty Java" (like in Vampires the Masquerade). The complete game logic is written in Java and the rendering, sound, input and maybe networking as well is handled by some native engine.

So, the position of the interface is quite different compared to usual scripting solutions. Most scripting languages are simply too slow for doing anything remotely processing intensive. That means that all interesting bits need to be written in C/C++ and you only call those functions from your script.

Also scripted Java isn't necessarily slower than usual Java, because it isn't necessarily interpreted or has to stay interpreted. Java is pretty awesome and flexible in this regard.

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Offline keldon85

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« Reply #38 - Posted 2007-07-17 21:20:19 »

Well as much as that is a bit of a good thing I wouldn't jump out of my seat and cheer. Using Java as a scripting language is far more easier than creating your own scripting language, which is what a lot of people did in the past. One of the first things I figured out when I was trying to second guess how they made Zelda (aged 15/16) was the need to create some form of action language (scripting, but I didn't know that).

I think Java is a good choice, but may just see .NET taking over if Microsoft have their way. Sun needs to put their foot in the door before that happens, having said that Java as a scripting language might not be a good way to publicise its place in the game development world. What Java needs is MMX, SSE and ASIO access.

As for gambling games and such, I it might make sense to develop them in Flash/Java so that you can have people playing it at work, college and without the need/worry of installing a potentially harmful program on a computer.

Offline broumbroum

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« Reply #39 - Posted 2007-07-17 23:04:52 »

I don't know a word about C++ but Java is well known as the turtle of programmatics when we're looking to optimize the velocity of our programs. That'be my word about that topic C++ vs. Java...  Cool

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Offline erikd

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« Reply #40 - Posted 2007-07-18 12:57:57 »

Quote
What Java needs is MMX, SSE and ASIO access.
Huh

As far as MMX and SSE goes, HotSpot uses whatever is available on the CPU, and on Windows it already uses MMX,  SSE and SSE2, and there's nothing stopping you to access SSE code through JNI, but that's probably not what you meant... So, what *do* you mean and why do you think java *needs* this?

And ASIO? Well, Java actually has ASIO access through jsasio, but ASIO isn't used for games as far as I know.

Offline ChrisM

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Luke...END OF LINE


« Reply #41 - Posted 2007-07-18 13:43:49 »

Hate to break it to you but most big games use scripting languages for high level actions and code the core of the game in C++! No RPG is coded in one language, they all use scripting languages for actions, etc.

Not telling us anything we don't already know.  Not cheering about it either, just pointing out that Java was used in the game, just not in the manner we would have preferred Smiley

-Chris

Offline princec

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« Reply #42 - Posted 2007-07-18 15:07:22 »

Unlikely they'd bother without the DX binding though eh?

Cas Smiley

Offline keldon85

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« Reply #43 - Posted 2007-07-18 16:47:42 »

Huh

As far as MMX and SSE goes, HotSpot uses whatever is available on the CPU, and on Windows it already uses MMX,  SSE and SSE2, and there's nothing stopping you to access SSE code through JNI, but that's probably not what you meant... So, what *do* you mean and why do you think java *needs* this?

And ASIO? Well, Java actually has ASIO access through jsasio, but ASIO isn't used for games as far as I know.
For the whole C++ vs Java issue, ASIO access and MMX/SSE instructions for music applications is vital. If it does it already then that is great! For some reason I was always under the impression that Java had a different format from when I dabbled in 80-bit MMX real's. Just looked at the SSE spec and, well, forget I said that.

I found the GrooveManager site with jsASIO, is that the official home of it? It appears so, but I just wanted to ask first.

Offline blahblahblahh

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« Reply #44 - Posted 2007-07-18 17:52:34 »

This caught my eye and sorry for digging up zombie threads BUT....SWG was scripted entirely in Java.  Yes, yes...I know...not really a Java game but Smiley

Um, I think you misread the context.

It wasn't written in java. That was my point. I was not referring to whether "some small part of the game was scripted in java", I was referring to whether the *game* was written in java.

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Offline erikd

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« Reply #45 - Posted 2007-07-19 09:10:32 »

For the whole C++ vs Java issue, ASIO access and MMX/SSE instructions for music applications is vital. If it does it already then that is great! For some reason I was always under the impression that Java had a different format from when I dabbled in 80-bit MMX real's. Just looked at the SSE spec and, well, forget I said that.

I found the GrooveManager site with jsASIO, is that the official home of it? It appears so, but I just wanted to ask first.
Yes I think that's the 'official' homepage, but apart from the resource links, there's not much homepage there, is it?  Smiley
It would have been nice if ASIO support would have been integrated in JavaSound though, as this jsASIO is Windows only afaik. Maybe we could raise an enhancement request...

Offline keldon85

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« Reply #46 - Posted 2007-07-19 09:52:01 »

Well in Linux I don't think it's much of an issue since the default sound output is low latency (I think).

Offline keldon85

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« Reply #47 - Posted 2007-07-19 14:21:44 »

ooh ooh ... try out the webstart! Impressive !!! http://www.jphotobrushpro.com/

Check out the amazing lighting effects! Knocks the socks off of GIMP's one

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