Cosmic Birdie Tech Demo Release

[shawnkendall]

http://cosmic-game-engine.blogspot.com/
'Nuff said

Thanks to everyone

[darkprophet]

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java.io.FileNotFoundException: models/HUD/Splash-pow2.gif.attr (No such file or directory)    at java.io.FileInputStream.open(Native Method)    at java.io.FileInputStream.<init>(FileInputStream.java:106)    at java.io.FileInputStream.<init>(FileInputStream.java:66)    at com.imi.j3d.loaders.flt.FLTtexture.loadAttr(FLTtexture.java:229)    at com.imi.j3d.loaders.flt.FLTtexture.loadImage(FLTtexture.java:96)    at com.imi.j3d.loaders.flt.FLTtexturePalette.getFLTtexture(FLTtexturePalette.java:157)    at com.imi.j3d.loaders.flt.FltLoader.createAppearance(FltLoader.java:3014)    at com.imi.j3d.loaders.flt.FltLoader.setAppearance(FltLoader.java:2820)    at com.imi.j3d.loaders.flt.FltLoader.processPolygons(FltLoader.java:3244)    at com.imi.j3d.loaders.flt.FltLoader.processRecord(FltLoader.java:1239)    at com.imi.j3d.loaders.flt.FltLoader.processRecord(FltLoader.java:1197)    at com.imi.j3d.loaders.flt.FltLoader.processRecord(FltLoader.java:1197)    at com.imi.j3d.loaders.flt.FltLoader.processRecord(FltLoader.java:1197)    at com.imi.j3d.loaders.flt.FltLoader.processRecord(FltLoader.java:1197)    at com.imi.j3d.loaders.flt.FltLoader.processRecord(FltLoader.java:1204)    at com.imi.j3d.loaders.flt.FltLoader.loadMain(FltLoader.java:656)    at com.imi.j3d.loaders.flt.FltLoader.loadMain(FltLoader.java:619)    at com.imi.j3d.loaders.flt.FltLoader.load(FltLoader.java:4021)    at cosmic.util.LoaderUtil.loadFltFile(LoaderUtil.java:197)    at cosmic.util.LoaderUtil.loadUnknownFile(LoaderUtil.java:118)    at cosmic.util.LoaderUtil.getGeometry(LoaderUtil.java:59)    at cosmic.engine.EntityUtil.loadGeometry(EntityUtil.java:271)    at cbgyro1.Main.main(Main.java:196)    at sun.reflect.NativeMethodAccessorImpl.invoke0(Native Method)    at sun.reflect.NativeMethodAccessorImpl.invoke(NativeMethodAccessorImpl.java:39)    at sun.reflect.DelegatingMethodAccessorImpl.invoke(DelegatingMethodAccessorImpl.java:25)    at java.lang.reflect.Method.invoke(Method.java:585)    at com.sun.javaws.Launcher.executeApplication(Launcher.java:1154)    at com.sun.javaws.Launcher.executeMainClass(Launcher.java:1101)    at com.sun.javaws.Launcher.continueLaunch(Launcher.java:944)    at com.sun.javaws.Launcher.handleApplicationDesc(Launcher.java:515)    at com.sun.javaws.Launcher.handleLaunchFile(Launcher.java:218)    at com.sun.javaws.Launcher.run(Launcher.java:165)    at java.lang.Thread.run(Thread.java:595)

That is followed by another zillion exceptions, all related to HUD folder.

If its any help, Ubuntu linux, Java 1.5.

DP

[shawnkendall]

That exception doesn't matter.  In fact, allot won't :-)
That's a file it doesn't need.
Did it ever come up?

Anyway it may not launch on Linux at all right now, I know it does't on Mac because we haven't set up the webstart to use the J3D beta that works on Mac yet.

Games published by our own members! Check 'em out!

[darkprophet]

No, it didn't start up, I got the splash screen tho (IMI splash screen), then it went.

DP

[shawnkendall]

No, it didn't start up, I got the splash screen tho (IMI splash screen), then it went.

DP

OK if you can I guess grab the entire output (!) and message it to me on the JGO profile and I'll take a look.

[kevglass]

40 meg 

Trying it now .. .

Kev

[shawnkendall]

40 meg 

Trying it now .. .

Kev

Um no, that won't work I'm sure.
So there must be an exception happening every frame, that's the only way it can get that big.
Maybe just up to the first several repeats...

[kevglass]

Ok, worked here. I tried fullscreen mode. My system specs are pretty poor:

Celeron 1.6
1gig RAM
ATI Mobility 7000

Comments below - I realise this is a tech demo and you'll still be working on it.

FPS = 10

Annyoing issue where the (webstart?) console kept popping through the view in fullscreen mode. Although it was actually quite useful in that I could check my fps on it

Felt more sluggish (couldn't get the speed up) compared to the one I played at GDC and J1. I realise it'd feel worse on my crappy system - but I didn't seem to be able to get speed up even in a straight line.

After my experience with Tilt I hate to criticise controls - but these felt pretty odd to me. I think the Mouse look just threw me off.

However, it's still cool! I love the characters, the graphics are nice - though I imagine theres still work to be done on the GUI etc.

Kev

[shawnkendall]

Of course I check out your blog, and I'll work with ya to get that in better shape :-)
10 is bad of course, target is 60 (that's what I get but as I put in my blog, the geometry transfer is probably the issue)
When it's running up to speed I think you'll find the control more intutive.  This is actually one of the things we heavily play tested with casual/non-gamers.  They are doing tricks in minutes.

Also, I have that flicker issue too in Fullscreen when running with a console up.  Try windowed and let me know if the rates are any different.

[kevglass]

Ahem... me on linux?

I think not

10 fps for the amount of geometry you appear to be shifting on this card is probably not so bad

Kev

Games published by our own members! Check 'em out!

[shawnkendall]

Ahem... me on linux?

Yeah I caught that I was mixing post, modded right after, hit reload :-)

[kevglass]

Ok, had a couple of laps in windowed mode - good fun. FPS was varying between 6 and 21. No flickering this time - nice

Kev

[shawnkendall]

Ok, had a couple of laps in windowed mode - good fun. FPS was varying between 6 and 21. No flickering this time - nice

If ithe frame rate varied that much, it's the transfer.  So the good news is that you will experience the greatest improvement of anyone testing over the next week(s) or so, hehe.

[Riven]

In fullscreen mode, i got a fullscreen panel showing nothing at all with backgroundcolor SystemColor.control. I had to ALT-TAB my way out.


That might be a tiny bug, so here comes a serious one: the controls!

They seem to be camera-angle-dependant. If the camera-angle is slightly off, the steering also is. When viewing the birdie from 90 degrees, left/right become forward/backward and to make matters worse, the birdie turns itself when going backward, while the abosule camera-angle remains the same, swapping left/right to backward/forward. Really, this is the most wicked way to control a unit since 1990. I might get used to it, eventually, but before then, I'd have considered the game unplayable and stopped playing. If you're aiming at the casual market (or in this case: any market at all), please fix the controls!

I'm sorry for sounding a bit harsh, but you really need to change this if you want to make this game commercially viable.

(or it's me...?)



Update:

Saw you mentioned this:

When it's running up to speed I think you'll find the control more intutive.  This is actually one of the things we heavily play tested with casual/non-gamers.  They are doing tricks in minutes.

Tricks are nice, but following the circuit without crashing every other corner is more important. But hey, if your testers were happy, it might be good

[shawnkendall]

The controls work exactly like a FPS.
You can go forward, back, or strafe, all relative to the camera.

Maybe this wil help, look past the character.

It's funny, but we notice this at the conferences,  some hardcore/regualr gamers had to mess around for a bit, but once they got the FPS-ness of it they were rocking it way better than newbs.
Casual gamers actually had less trouble to start...?

Raven, let me know when you get it.

[Riven]

Raven, let me know when you get it.

Second try made it quite a bit easier, so I bet I spoke too early. It's not very intuitive but managable.

While playing I have perfectly smooth framerates, but every minute or so I get 1-5s freezes. That's really serious. Without knowlegde from the engine I can only blame the garbage collector. Nobody else experiencing this? I'm running it through Java 1.5 (server VM)

[g666]

I just tryed it:

In fullscreen mode i got the console flicking onto the screen.

In windowed mode it was ok, the controls I found were quite easy to use, i had no problem getting around the track, the fps was slow, but then that is partly my system, I wasnt entirly sure what i was meant to be doing tho.

Also I had some sort of debug gui next to the game in the windowed mode.

[Jeff]

The controls work exactly like a FPS.
You can go forward, back, or strafe, all relative to the camera.

Unless the controls have changed a lot sicne the version i played I think youll find wasd frustrating.

The way I told people at the show to fly it was to use W to thrust and be aware that thrust is in whatever direction yo uare currently mouse-looking....

But maybe Shawn's chnaged all this

[Jeff]

I just tryed it:

In fullscreen mode i got the console flicking onto the screen.

That happens, just alt-tab to the console and minimize it and it will go away

[Orangy Tang]

Er, the framerate's not very good is it? I must have been hovering at ~20fps and it doesn't appear to be doing much...

[swpalmer]

What kind of Gfx card is needed?  On my GeForce fx5200 I could not play at all.. got a blank (black) fullscreen window then it flipped back to the desktop at some point.  The whole game was locked up and I had to close all the cosmic windows.  There were several exceptions when loading .. looked like missing resources.
When it flipped back to the desktop I could try to flip back to fullscreen by selecting the window from the start bar, but it only flipped back for a second and then it dumped me to the desktop again.
I was testing on Mustang b90, Win XP SP2.

[shawnkendall]

Yeah so any issues with fullscreen and locking at launch is 95% going to be Java3D unfortunately.

Actually this is one of the reasons I put this out now because we are getting closer to prime in terms of the engine and fullscreen Java3D seems to have lots of issues.  Soon I will put up a couple alternative launch .jnlp that use other version of Java3D including the new 1.5.0 build on JOGL.  Since that was still very beta, I launched on 1.4.0 the latest "stable" build.

If you can't get it to run in Windowed mode please post your config, thanks!

[shawnkendall]

The controls work exactly like a FPS.
You can go forward, back, or strafe, all relative to the camera.

Unless the controls have changed a lot sicne the version i played I think youll find wasd frustrating.
The way I told people at the show to fly it was to use W to thrust and be aware that thrust is in whatever direction yo uare currently mouse-looking....
But maybe Shawn's chnaged all this

No change, it the same as before.  What you just described again is the usual FPS navigation controls. :-)

[EgonOlsen]

Works fine here (Win XP, Java5, P4HT@3.2Ghz, GeForce 7800GS). In game, i'm getting 60fps most of the time. At startup, when most of the level is displayed, i'm at 35fps. No hick ups or something like that. It runs smooth and works fine in fullscreen too. The controls are a bit strange for a racing game IMHO but work fine once you realize that they are fps like.
Oh, one thing that's not so great: The text flickers at the edges, i.e. a letter is x pixels width in one frame and x+1 in the next.

[shawnkendall]

Actually the flicker is due to Z-buffer precision.  The text does not write to the Z-buffer so any overlapping letter won't cause flicker (and they don't overlap anyway ).  It's the near clip catching the letters.  I know this cause if I move it around it changes on different cards, or if I change the near clip to be out more it totally fixes it then, well the near clip is out more, which I don't want.  It's also related to how each particle is getting animated over time, which producing enough variance to cause some pixle changes.  We'll be messing with that for next update actually cause it REALLY bugs me.

[mod] oops sorry I was informed that what I just said is not the problem
IIt has to do with the fact that there is a frame delay between the camera transform and the particle shape3d AND the fact that the vehicle never comes to perfect rest.  If you wreck the character off the vehicle and he comes to rest, the test should be soild.  As I said we'll be fxiing this one next release IF POSSIBLE :-)

[mod]
This is an incredibly elusive bug.
Try this:
At start up drive to the center of the level right where the deathballs are sitting but don't advance through the text until you get there.
On my system, the flicker stops the closer you get to the origin.  That says floating point error to me, but just about any combination of depth test settings as well as particle animations (like stopping it all together) seem to have no good effect.

Can you confirm what I just described?
Thanks

[darkprophet]

Apologies for the lateness...real life got in the way.

I couldn't PM you with the error, too many characters, but I think the logging bombed out before it got the exception, in any case, ive attached it here.

[jfelrod1960]

I'm impressed with the physics engine myself.  I found it difficult to control but fun to play around with.  I think I would do better with a game controller. (hint hint)

[Mike Jacobs]

Shawn, I ran it on a crappy old system (256M, 1GHz, 32 Meg Graphics card) and it ran pretty well.  I did manage to crash into a pillar and my character fell off the flying thingie.  The character sparked as it skidded on the ground and tried to float back to the flying thingie but never made it.  It wasn't clear how I was supposed to respawn or at least get up and get back on.  The controls took a moment to figure out, but the old Quake days came back to me (mouse and keyboard combo).

Mike

[p.s. I you need improved particles, I have just the thing for you ;-) ]

[shawnkendall]

Shawn, I ran it on a crappy old system (256M, 1GHz, 32 Meg Graphics card) and it ran pretty well.  I did manage to crash into a pillar and my character fell off the flying thingie.  The character sparked as it skidded on the ground and tried to float back to the flying thingie but never made it.  It wasn't clear how I was supposed to respawn or at least get up and get back on.  The controls took a moment to figure out, but the old Quake days came back to me (mouse and keyboard combo).

Mike

[p.s. I you need improved particles, I have just the thing for you ;-) ]

Just space or right mouse to jump puts you back on the gyro :-) (unless it is during the opening text, in which case it advances the text util done and then puts you back on)

[EgonOlsen]

Try this:
At start up drive to the center of the level right where the deathballs are sitting but don't advance through the text until you get there.
On my system, the flicker stops the closer you get to the origin.  That says floating point error to me, but just about any combination of depth test settings as well as particle animations (like stopping it all together) seem to have no good effect.

Can you confirm what I just described?

Yes. The farer away from the level's center you are, the worser the flickering gets.