jogl sources homepage etc.

[sgoethel]

good day everybody

i have learned gl4java is dead ;-) and jogl lives

well, you never stop learning ...

so now i would like to read the sources,
but i only get a "403 Forbidden" error for "http://jogl.dev.java.net/" or
any related URL .. :-(

so i would like to co cvs sources etc.

i would also restart my efforts in this language mapping,
so i would like to get cvs write access ..

i hope the license is LGPL .. right ?

would be nice to read more later ..

greetings to all of you who knows me ..

just some note about the "gl4java is dead" stuff:
you were able to keep it alive at anytime !

but if the jogl license is compatible .. i do not really care about the name ;-)

live long and healthy

cheers, sven

sven at jausoft dot com

[Bornter]

good day everybody
i have learned gl4java is dead ;-) and jogl lives

Good day Sven,
nice to meet you in this forum. First let me say a big thankyou for your good work (and those of your helpers) in Gl4java. The existance of this project helped so many developers who love Java and OpenGL that they can combine the two nice "things", instead of falling back to assembler like languages like C and C++.

just some note about the "gl4java is dead" stuff:
you were able to keep it alive at anytime !

When I first saw Jogl some weeks ago I noticed very many parallels between Jogl and Gl4java. Which made me think that you and SUN together made Jogl, basing on the Gl4java. :-)  There's been a "OpenGL for Java" demonstration on a Javaone mass last year (?) and in the electronic footprint on SUN's server your name is being mentioned, so I really thought: ah well, this is Sven's new baby. :-)

but if the jogl license is compatible .. i do not really care about the name ;-)

Good point. It's clear the the Java community really needs any help, because so many opponents like .. a very big software company .. and "other evil forces" try to kill Java.

When there's a good connection between Jogl and SUN the OpenGL bindings for Java will obtain a more official background. This will encourage even more people and maybe also larger developer studios to think about using OpenGL in Java for their projects. Which is a good thing for us all - including SUN.

Now it's also time to say a big thank you to all Jogl programmers and maintainers (at SUN and elsewhere) for this nice project. Great to have a binary download possibility now. It works very nice.
I'm looking forward that SUN includes Jogl in Java 1.5 or 1.6. :-)

All the best.

-ric

[sgoethel]

thanx a lot for the thanx

nope, i just learned about jogl (a jogl relaunch) yesterday :-(

and yes, many techniques looks too familiar for me .. funny

and no, i was not introduced, nor invited no nothing :-|

yes, a big company makes people feeling happy sometimes,
but IMHO free sources makes me feel more reliabel and safer.

yes - i have to thank kbr and SUN for paying this nice trip to JavaOne2002.

but to keep freedom, LGPL license and morality intact,
i want to encourage the jogl maintainers to put jogl open source
under a compatible license sheme, what means:
1.) LGPL is ok
2.) GPL is ok, cause it highers the license constraints,
but i do not like it for commercial stuff

BSD or anything else is not ok, 'cause it loosens the license,
which is not allowed !

well, IANAL, so i mentioned morality, cause techniques, code
and all the experiences made with gl4java should not being
"lost" into a closed source project.

so, its ok for my ego ;-), to fork in another GPL stuff,
but its not for all maintainers, coders and testers just to
re-brand stuff and say: this is much cooler .. blabla ;-)

e.g. antlr is being used now, nice, gl4java used javacc,
and introduced the compilation of mesa3d headers to java stuff ..

so i will invite you folks again to the GL4Java successor Jungle3D

http://www.java-gaming.org/cgi-bin/JGNetForums/YaBB.cgi?board=jogl;action=display;num=1057484285

which is again OpenSource and free avaiable ..

and yes, i would love to change many stuff in the design,
as i allready started .. with the big help and kicking ass of alban.
(yep .. I needed and need more kicking ass in an unmotivated period ..)

thanxs a lot

may be we can discuss things and bring something to a new level

even if its name is jogl, gl4java2 or jungle3d
.. but it must be - at least - LGPL'ed !

http://gl4java.sourceforge.net/docs/overview/benefits.html

PEACE TO THE PEOPLE

cheers, sven

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[Ken Russell]

Hi Sven,

I'm one of the two co-authors of Jogl (Chris Kline is the other) and the initiator of the project. We began developing Jogl because we wanted to use the latest OpenGL 1.4 features and extending and maintaining GL4Java had become too difficult due to the large amounts of legacy code and native code. (You'll remember I was an active developer of GL4Java for over a year and contributed its JAWT, New I/O and GLDrawable/GLEventListener support.)

Jogl is a completely new source base. There is no code relationship between it and any other OpenGL binding for Java, GL4Java included. Concepts have been borrowed liberally from, in particular, GL4Java and Magician, but all of the code is new.

Major architectural differences between Jogl and GL4Java include:

- Jogl is written almost completely in Java. There are about 50 lines of handwritten C code in the entire project. This was made possible with a new tool called GlueGen, a glue code generator with some of the same properties as GL4Java's C2J but which is powerful enough to generate Java-level accessors for concepts like C structs and function pointers. We bound the low-level JAWT, WGL and GLX routines into Java first and then built the OpenGL context implementations on top of them. Having all of the low-level APIs exposed to Java (though not necessarily to the end user) makes it much easier to extend the framework.

- The notion of the OpenGL context has been removed from the public API. This is an important change because it makes the implementation more robust and makes it easier to perform certain kinds of optimizations. It also hides a lot of unnecessary complexity from the end user and makes it easier to extend the framework; pbuffer support was added to Jogl with very few public API changes.

- GLCanvas and GLJPanel are now final classes. The only way to interact with OpenGL is now through the GLEventListener interface. This change eliminates the primary source of errors I have seen reported over the past couple of years on the GL4Java mailing list, namely subclassing e.g. GLCanvas and forgetting to perform some of the context manipulation the superclass had been doing. (Note that some Jogl users have provided good reasons why these classes should be subclassable, so this may change, but all of the methods related to OpenGL context management will remain final.)

- Animation support has been factored out into an Animator class, so there are no longer GLAnimCanvas and GLAnimJPanel classes.

- Jogl includes Magician's notion of a composable pipeline, in particular the DebugGL concept. This makes debugging OpenGL applications much easier and in fact I think it makes OpenGL applications written in Java easier to debug than the same application written in C.

Jogl (which includes GlueGen) is open source under the BSD license. It can be checked out via cvs; instructions are at http://jogl.dev.java.net/ . It may be necessary to sign up as an Observer of the project; I'm not sure whether the guest cvs accounts are working.

Currently the development team (i.e. the number of people who have commit access to the repository) is small and I think we'll probably be keeping that number small. However, I'm personally very open to accepting new developers, at least once all of the processes around this have been figured out; currently I'm not involved with this planning. I think we'll have a code review process so there can be some validation of changes going in to the source base.

I hope you and the other GL4Java developers will join the Jogl project instead of starting a new one. Jogl was designed to be a clean and minimal, yet full-featured, system and I think we've achieved those goals. I think it's a good base to extend and to build on top of.

There are some fairly advanced Jogl demos, many ported from NVidia's sources, at http://jogl-demos.dev.java.net/ ; check them out from the CVS repository or grab the demo binaries from the Files section of http://jogl.dev.java.net/ . We showed these and other demos in a talk at this year's JavaOne conference; slides for technical session 2125, "Advanced OpenGL for the Java Platform", can be found linked off of http://servlet.java.sun.com/javaone/sf2003/conf/sessions/48-all-regular.en.jsp .

[aNt]

well i think u both rock! would b nice to have them little gems from GL4Java working within Jogl.  

[Bornter]

I'm one of the two co-authors of Jogl (Chris Kline is the other) and the initiator of the project.

Now that I know the names of the autors and initiators of Jogl I'd like to say thanks to you, Ken and Chris, for your nice and highly important work.

The fact you work "on the Java HotSpot Virtual Machine at Sun Microsystems and" have "nine years of 3D graphics experience" (according to your mentioned Javaone slides, session 2125, "Advanced OpenGL for the Java Platform") is a pretty good mixture.

The reason I say "thankyou" quite a few times in this thread is ... that I'm thankful. :-)
Java and OpenGL looks to be an ideal combination. Everybody who spent endless time, nerves and money in C++, graphics debuging and corrupted compilers (Visual C++ to name one of the worse) will probably agree. Java and OpenGL with DebugGL enabled (hehe) is a developer's dream.

Well, I wish all the best to you Jogl programmers, Java experts at SUN and outside, and any game developer here in general.

[aNt]

couldnt get Jungle3D to build - seems there is no native libs anyways . also the MANIFEST files are upset also dude. so i removed all the stuff that didnt need to be there and it did do more. then it just wouldnt finish.

the javadocs went ok mind . then i read the file all the readme's point me to and theres no native libs yet anyways..

-> over to the old gl4java .