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  How To Start Programming Games In Java...  (Read 6375 times)
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Offline Seraphino

Junior Newbie





« Posted 2006-06-18 19:35:09 »

Hi, I am totally new here as you may be able to tell, and I was wondering a few things about java before I decide to start programming games in it.

1. Is speed reasonable?

2. Is it pretty easy (by easy, I mean, simple to learn)?

3. Is it easily deployable?

4. What books should I get if I wanted to start, or what tutorials should I read?

I want to make an 3D ORPG or a RPG, and I was just wondering these things, if you could get back to me, that'd be absolutely great, because I really want to be as good as some of you guys!
Offline erikd

JGO Ninja


Medals: 16
Projects: 4
Exp: 14 years


Maximumisness


« Reply #1 - Posted 2006-06-18 21:06:24 »

Hi, I am totally new here as you may be able to tell, and I was wondering a few things about java before I decide to start programming games in it.

1. Is speed reasonable?
Yes

Quote
2. Is it pretty easy (by easy, I mean, simple to learn)?
It does have a learning curve, and it helps to read about OOP to be able to understand java well.
You'll learn that java becomes easier when you're working on larger projects if you use java well.
When you compare java to VB6 for example, this is completely the other way around; VB6 is a little bit easier to get started with, but your VB6 program will be more and more difficult to maintain and expand when your project gets larger.

Quote
3. Is it easily deployable?
Yes and no. It depends on your goals and needs. There are some good discussions about this subject going on right now about this elsewhere on the forum.

Quote
4. What books should I get if I wanted to start, or what tutorials should I read?
I found Sun's java tutorial pretty good. Also, this is pretty good: http://www.cokeandcode.com/spaceinvaderstutorial

Quote
I want to make an 3D ORPG or a RPG, and I was just wondering these things, if you could get back to me, that'd be absolutely great, because I really want to be as good as some of you guys!

The best advice is not to get too pretentious in this stage. Try something easy first, or you'll get overwhelmed and frustrated.

Offline Seraphino

Junior Newbie





« Reply #2 - Posted 2006-06-18 22:13:45 »

Thanks for the response Smiley This helped a ton!
Games published by our own members! Check 'em out!
Legends of Yore - The Casual Retro Roguelike
Offline Mr_Light

Senior Duke


Medals: 1


shiny.


« Reply #3 - Posted 2006-06-18 22:38:25 »

also see http://wiki.java.net/bin/view/Games/JeffFAQ

It's harder to read code than to write it. - it's even harder to write readable code.

The gospel of brother Riven: "The guarantee that all bugs are in *your* code is worth gold." Amen brother a-m-e-n.
Offline fletchergames

Senior Duke





« Reply #4 - Posted 2006-06-18 23:35:19 »

There's alot of cheap books about Java and Java game programming available.  Try Amazon.com.
Offline CommanderKeith
« Reply #5 - Posted 2006-06-19 04:39:15 »

I'd buy a basic java book first that's just about programming and learn that first.

After you're up to the stage where you can get a JFrame painted on the screen, you're ready to have a go at a basic 2D game (they're the best anyway  Smiley).  3D is probably a bit ambitious, I think you need to be a real maths-head to make one.  And don't worry if your first games are really bad.  My first games were super-crap - bullets never 'hit' anything, they just passed through your 2D 'tank' (rectangle), and so scoring was done using the honour system! (I think this made it better though, more social!)  Since it was 'multiplayer' (with 2 people on the same keyboard) the best startegy was actually to jam the keys rather than fight properly.... awesome

Your best resources will be the API docs, the Java Tutorial, Google, and these forums which are the best catch-all for weird snags & design issues.  Unlike the Sun Java forums, most posts here actually get answered properly (& there's a much better vibe  Cool).

Offline Seraphino

Junior Newbie





« Reply #6 - Posted 2006-06-19 18:02:38 »

Yah, I was wondering, what is the best Java IDE to use if I want to start programming games...?
Offline Mr_Light

Senior Duke


Medals: 1


shiny.


« Reply #7 - Posted 2006-06-19 20:47:08 »

the one wich rubs you the right way.

It's harder to read code than to write it. - it's even harder to write readable code.

The gospel of brother Riven: "The guarantee that all bugs are in *your* code is worth gold." Amen brother a-m-e-n.
Offline purpleguitar

Junior Duke





« Reply #8 - Posted 2006-06-20 12:10:59 »

I'll recommend eclipse: www.eclipse.org

It's free as in beer and it's free as in speech.  The default installation has everything you'll need for now, the docs are decent, and the plug-in architecture allows it to scale.  I've recently fallen in love with subclipse, the subversion plugin for eclipse.  No more cvs for me!

As Mr. Light says, it is a matter of personal preference, but if you're starting with a blank slate, I recommend eclipse for the short list.
Offline cylab

JGO Ninja


Medals: 52



« Reply #9 - Posted 2006-06-20 12:54:11 »

I'll recommend Netbeans (www.netbeans.org) because of my personal preference (and maybe because I am writing  an OpenGL development support extension for it Wink)

It's as free as eclipse.

Mathias - I Know What [you] Did Last Summer!
Games published by our own members! Check 'em out!
Legends of Yore - The Casual Retro Roguelike
Offline Mr_Light

Senior Duke


Medals: 1


shiny.


« Reply #10 - Posted 2006-06-20 13:00:36 »

I recommend eclipse... anyways I beleave there are several threads flowing about right here.

@purpleguitar  the OSGi ppl would enjoy you calling those 'plug-ins', bundles  Wink

It's harder to read code than to write it. - it's even harder to write readable code.

The gospel of brother Riven: "The guarantee that all bugs are in *your* code is worth gold." Amen brother a-m-e-n.
Offline Jeff

JGO Coder




Got any cats?


« Reply #11 - Posted 2006-06-22 21:47:42 »

I'll recommend eclipse: www.eclipse.org

It's free as in beer and it's free as in speech. 

Which means its about 8 bucks a six pack??

Really, this idiom never made *any* sense to me,

For that matter, I dont see the connection between freeware software and free speach. Im sorry.
However much the people who see OS a as a religion might like to conflate the two, they are
TOTALLY seperate issues and concepts.

Freeware is about software where the authors are donating their intellectual property to the community.

Free speach is about the right to express an opinion.

Totally seperate things.  You might have an OPINION about Freeware, and a society with free speach might allow you
to express that opion... but thats like saying paint is a farrari because I can paint a farrari.


Got a question about Java and game programming?  Just new to the Java Game Development Community?  Try my FAQ.  Its likely you'll learn something!

http://wiki.java.net/bin/view/Games/JeffFAQ
Offline Jeff

JGO Coder




Got any cats?


« Reply #12 - Posted 2006-06-22 21:48:44 »

btw... I like Eclipse for large scale development support.

but I like Netbeans for its profiler integration.

I have yet to find one tool that does both equally well.

Got a question about Java and game programming?  Just new to the Java Game Development Community?  Try my FAQ.  Its likely you'll learn something!

http://wiki.java.net/bin/view/Games/JeffFAQ
Offline blahblahblahh

JGO Coder


Medals: 1


http://t-machine.org


« Reply #13 - Posted 2006-06-23 10:07:44 »

I'll recommend eclipse: www.eclipse.org

It's free as in beer and it's free as in speech. 

Which means its about 8 bucks a six pack??

Really, this idiom never made *any* sense to me,


Quite simple, really. It's because the english language often has multiple independent meanings for a given word. e.g.:

free   
adj. fre·er, fre·est

   1. Not imprisoned or enslaved; being at liberty.
   2. Not controlled by obligation or the will of another: felt free to go.
   3. Without charge.

(actually there's considerably more meanings than that for the word "free" - go find a dictionary).

If you want to be pedantic, "free" software doesnt mean much because there's no way of telling, without context, which meaning of "free" is being used.

Hence ... "free as in beer or speech". Ask anyone the difference between free and non-free beer, and they'll say "one you have to pay for". Ask them the difference between free speech and non-free speech and they'll say "one is controlled by other people".

malloc will be first against the wall when the revolution comes...
Offline beowulf03809

Junior Duke




We live for the code, we die for the code


« Reply #14 - Posted 2006-06-23 19:37:32 »

Blahx3 summed it pretty well.  Wikipedia has a couple good entries for the "...as in beer" & "..as in speach" phrases.  Free software ( free as in beer ) is not always Open Source ( free as in speach ). Since English uses the same word ( free ) for both "gratis" and "liberty" meanings it's often a good thing to clarify if one or both apply when discussing FOSS.

As powerful as both Netbeans and Eclipse have become the selection of one over the other often seems to come down to personal preference.  Which one works the way you think?  If you don't yet have much experience with them, then maybe grab both and go thru a couple of the tutorials with each one.  See which one just feels more natural to you.

To be honest, I started using Eclipse vs. Netbeans for two reasons.  First, it is the basis for the IBM IDEs ( WSAD & RAD ) which are far from free but are the standard at where I work.  Second, I just think the name is better than "NebBeans".  Rather shallow but enough to tip the balance for me.   Cheesy
Offline Amos Wenger

Senior Duke




Everything's possible, but not everything's fun...


« Reply #15 - Posted 2006-06-24 12:56:06 »

1. Is speed reasonable?
Everything depends on your game.. I'm doing a massive networked games and apart from my crappy graphic card slowdown is not on the Java side. (optimizations like JIT do the job pretty well).

2. Is it pretty easy (by easy, I mean, simple to learn)?
I found so. I began with C++ and now that I'm with Java when I read C++ code I always "whooooooooooooooo what a mess ! how can they read that ?"  Grin Grin

3. Is it easily deployable?
Java Web Start is pretty cool and works well (from what I've tested) but maybe for larger-scale projects you will need something like : http://www.izforge.com/izpack/ IzPack, which is just AMAZING. (I used it to deploy a demo of one of my older games).

4. What books should I get if I wanted to start, or what tutorials should I read?
As mentioned, Jeff FAQ is a pretty good starting point.

I want to make an 3D ORPG or a RPG, and I was just wondering these things, if you could get back to me, that'd be absolutely great, because I really want to be as good as some of you guys!
So cool you don't want to do a MMORPG (I don't know who said "Friends don't let friends do MMORPGs").

"Once you start working on something, don't be afraid of failure and don't abandon it. People who work sincerely are the happiest"
Offline Amos Wenger

Senior Duke




Everything's possible, but not everything's fun...


« Reply #16 - Posted 2006-06-24 13:00:42 »

Yah, I was wondering, what is the best Java IDE to use if I want to start programming games...?
As others said just your preference but I found Eclipse really, really, really great. Older versions were slow as swiss speech  Grin but now it's just fine (or maybe my PC has upgraded without telling me  Huh  Wink )

(Isn't "speach" spelled "speech" ??)

"Once you start working on something, don't be afraid of failure and don't abandon it. People who work sincerely are the happiest"
Offline beowulf03809

Junior Duke




We live for the code, we die for the code


« Reply #17 - Posted 2006-06-26 15:31:28 »

(Isn't "speach" spelled "speech" ??)

Uh...that's the Double Super Secret L337 Haxor way of spelling it...   Roll Eyes   Cool
Offline Amos Wenger

Senior Duke




Everything's possible, but not everything's fun...


« Reply #18 - Posted 2006-06-26 18:21:43 »

(Isn't "speach" spelled "speech" ??)

Uh...that's the Double Super Secret L337 Haxor way of spelling it...   Roll Eyes   Cool
4|-| 0|<3Y 6()Y

(Wow, was that ugly ??)

"Once you start working on something, don't be afraid of failure and don't abandon it. People who work sincerely are the happiest"
Offline f.l.x

Senior Duke


Projects: 3


there is no place like 127.0.0.1


« Reply #19 - Posted 2006-06-26 20:41:05 »

Click to Play

Litterarum radices amaras, fructus dulces
http://flx.proyectoanonimo.com
figth spam!
Offline bert

Junior Duke




Miles of road and miles of code


« Reply #20 - Posted 2006-07-01 18:11:37 »

"Yes" for the first 3... Killer Game Programming in Java for the 4th.

PS Don't rush it too much, don't expect to make a full-on game right off the bat. Keep plugging away though and eventually you'll have it!

w00t, i'm winning
Offline Jackal von ÖRF

Junior Duke





« Reply #21 - Posted 2006-07-20 20:12:48 »

So cool you don't want to do a MMORPG (I don't know who said "Friends don't let friends do MMORPGs").
I don't remember who first posted this, but here it is...

And what comes to choosing an IDE... When still learning the basics of programming, it's best to use a simple text editor (Notepad or something slightly better) so that you'll learn to look for simple syntax errors and the basics of compiling code. After that having syntax highlighting, autocompletion, automatic error checking, easy compiling and running, quick access to javadocs etc. helps much. And when you start doing real work, refactoring, version management, debugger and other advanced features provided by IDE's help to increase your performance.

My first Java editor, which I used the first 2-3 years, was JCreator (quite OK, fast on a slow computer, but lacking in features). Now I'm using IntelliJ IDEA and even though it is commercial ($250 for personal license, but there is a 30 day trial and the EAP (beta, somewhat buggy) versions are free), in my opinion its usability is much better than Eclipse's. My performance is much faster with IDEA and I get less headache compared to the times I use Eclipse. NetBeans I haven't tried properly, but it has some promising features (a free profiler and GUI editor). Although last time I tried NetBeans, I got the impression that it's refactoring abilities were quite much lower than what I've gotten used to.

I recommend you to install both Eclipse and NetBeans, and try using each of them for a week or two (when creating a real but simple program) so that you could decide between them. Also have a look at IDEA in the same way, if you please.

Offline beowulf03809

Junior Duke




We live for the code, we die for the code


« Reply #22 - Posted 2006-07-20 21:16:05 »

So cool you don't want to do a MMORPG (I don't know who said "Friends don't let friends do MMORPGs").
I don't remember who first posted this, but here it is...


I have never seen The Source for that quote...that is just TOO funny.  Thanks for finding and sharing.   Grin  Grin  Grin
Offline alphael

Junior Newbie




total newbie


« Reply #23 - Posted 2006-07-21 03:12:52 »

thank you guys , those were really some good advices , i'm new at game programming (....well i'm still preparing to be a beginer )
things are reaaaaaaaly complicated for me, can somone help me fing an extreme-easy-for-dumbs tutorial ? Huh

while (dumb && makingGame.equals("dream "))  {<br />         learn();<br />         if (undestand = false)  reLearn();<br />}
Offline beowulf03809

Junior Duke




We live for the code, we die for the code


« Reply #24 - Posted 2006-07-21 12:41:13 »

The coke-and-code tutorials are probably the best, basic game-specific tutorials you'll find. 

HOWEVER, they do assume some general Java knowledge in advance.  If you're looking for some good on-line tutorials for that, then head over to Sun's Java website and go thru the ones they have up.   They help a lot.
Offline alphael

Junior Newbie




total newbie


« Reply #25 - Posted 2006-07-21 14:15:40 »

i'm doing the space invaders tutorial ,  Grin even it's not that easy lool , i hope i can make it trough

while (dumb && makingGame.equals("dream "))  {<br />         learn();<br />         if (undestand = false)  reLearn();<br />}
Offline beowulf03809

Junior Duke




We live for the code, we die for the code


« Reply #26 - Posted 2006-07-21 17:04:13 »

One suggestion:  Following the tutorials to completion is a bit of a challenge but you may not really feel like you "know" what you did after since you were really just following a recipie.   Huh  When you finish it up ( and it's working!  Grin ), go back thru and tweak things.  Change the speed of the ship or invaders, add new weapons or shields to the player, put in some random elements ( random mother ship flys across the top and can spawn new invaders ), things like that. 

It will get you to really understand what is going on and how without having to write a whole new game.  It will also help build your confidence that you are understanding Java game programming because you WILL be understanding Java game programming ( not just following a recipie ).   Cool
Offline alphael

Junior Newbie




total newbie


« Reply #27 - Posted 2006-07-22 01:44:13 »

One suggestion:  Following the tutorials to completion is a bit of a challenge but you may not really feel like you "know" what you did after since you were really just following a recipie.   Huh  When you finish it up ( and it's working!  Grin ), go back thru and tweak things.  Change the speed of the ship or invaders, add new weapons or shields to the player, put in some random elements ( random mother ship flys across the top and can spawn new invaders ), things like that. 

It will get you to really understand what is going on and how without having to write a whole new game.  It will also help build your confidence that you are understanding Java game programming because you WILL be understanding Java game programming ( not just following a recipie ).   Cool
lool you read my mind  Shocked , i was really starting to be lost but i tried to complete the tutorial , now i'll try to rewrite the code by myself and then i'll try to  plug new stuffs , i cant wait to learn how to make my game  Grin

while (dumb && makingGame.equals("dream "))  {<br />         learn();<br />         if (undestand = false)  reLearn();<br />}
Offline PavelJ

Senior Newbie





« Reply #28 - Posted 2006-07-22 12:27:56 »

Blahx3 summed it pretty well.  Wikipedia has a couple good entries for the "...as in beer" & "..as in speach" phrases.  Free software ( free as in beer ) is not always Open Source ( free as in speach ). Since English uses the same word ( free ) for both "gratis" and "liberty" meanings it's often a good thing to clarify if one or both apply when discussing FOSS.

little addition: free software is ALWAYS open source, but open source is NOT ALWAYS free software. what you meant is freeware which shouldn't be confused with free software. yeah, the term "free software" sucks, because of it's various possible interpretations. god, or rms as others call him Wink, suggested the use of free/libre/open source software, FLOSS, but that doesn't sound any better.
Offline fletchergames

Senior Duke





« Reply #29 - Posted 2006-07-22 17:28:19 »

little addition: free software is ALWAYS open source, but open source is NOT ALWAYS free software. what you meant is freeware which shouldn't be confused with free software. yeah, the term "free software" sucks, because of it's various possible interpretations. god, or rms as others call him Wink, suggested the use of free/libre/open source software, FLOSS, but that doesn't sound any better.

I think you meant "open source is ALWAYS free software, but free software is NOT ALWAYS open source".  I could write a piece of software and give it away for free but not give you the source code.

I could also sell someone the source code to a piece of software, but then it wouldn't really be "open" source.  The only way I can think of that a piece of software could be open source but not free is if you withhold the map files, image files, etc. that would be required to actually run the software.
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