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  Reorg of games area on java.net  (Read 4480 times)
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Offline djp

Junior Devvie





« Posted 2003-06-20 13:48:25 »

Just wanted to let everyone know that we have reorganized the games "category" on java.net.  Specifically we are no longer relying on the category!  We found several problems with this approach, specifically any project can assign itself to a category.  We already had some non-game projects under the game category.  Further when viewing the java.net projects you get a flat list of projects which we felt was very unwieldy.

So what we have done is:
create a master project called "games".  Under this project are
the following subprojects:
games-core             Java Games Core Technologies
games-demos         Java Game Demos and Tutorials
games-forge            Java-Based Games, Works in Progress and
                               Other Content
games-middleware   Java Game Engines and Libraries          
games-tools             Tools for Java Game Development

The API's announced at javaone: joal, jinput and jogl are under
the "games-core" category.

For the mailing lists we felt it would be best to start with a few to keep the community together and then, if the volume becomes too much, we will start to split them off.   So we are encouraging everyone interested in the games API's, particularly the "games-core" area to subscribe to the dev@games.java.net mailing list.

d

Offline cfmdobbie

Senior Devvie


Medals: 1


Who, me?


« Reply #1 - Posted 2003-06-20 16:43:51 »

Additional (just in case anyone hasn't played much with dev.java.net yet): we are being discouraged from joining these projects, but you can still add them to your start page by selecting "Watch this project" instead.

Hellomynameis Charlie Dobbie.
Offline nickdotjava

Junior Devvie




I have fallen to the dark side.  I'm using DX9


« Reply #2 - Posted 2003-06-20 17:45:01 »

We're being discouraged from joining these projects?  Cry  Are we allowed to create our own projects?

-Nick

"Oh ya, that's trivial.  I should have it done in an hour."
Games published by our own members! Check 'em out!
Legends of Yore - The Casual Retro Roguelike
Offline djp

Junior Devvie





« Reply #3 - Posted 2003-06-20 18:08:36 »

The only "discouragement" is when you apply for a developer role for anything in the games-core area.  For these projects we have been waiting for a Developers Agreement form.  This form will have to be signed before you become a developer in any of the games-core projects.

Don't Panic! It is nothing dark and sinister (really).  From my understanding the agreement has the developer state that they are not stealing code from their company to put into one of our projects,etc, etc.  We expect to get the agreement up ASAP so people can start filling it out and we can then start accepting developers.

We realize this has been a little frustrating (for us all) but things are coming together.

d
Offline gregorypierce

Senior Devvie




I come upon thee like the blue screen of death....


« Reply #4 - Posted 2003-06-21 03:13:13 »

With the recent foolishness going on with SCO and IBM this is certainly understandable and since I know more than a few of the people in your legal department I understand the situation, but please understand - things MUST move forward quickly.

http://www.gregorypierce.com

She builds, she builds oh man
When she links, she links I go crazy
Cause she looks like good code but she's really a hack
I think I'll run upstairs and grab a snack!
Offline Athomas Goldberg

Junior Devvie




Grrrrrr...


« Reply #5 - Posted 2003-06-22 03:49:12 »

The games project and each of its direct subprojects are there for organizational purposes, in orfer to make it easy to navigate the projects on the site. Please apply for membership directly to the projects in each of these categories rather than category projects themselves. If you want to list the categories on your projects page then "watch" the project.

Athomas Goldberg
Project Lead / Wildcard
Game Technologies Group
Sun Microsystems, Inc.
Offline kevglass

« JGO Spiffy Duke »


Medals: 212
Projects: 24
Exp: 18 years


Coder, Trainee Pixel Artist, Game Reviewer


« Reply #6 - Posted 2003-06-22 18:10:46 »

So whats up with the "0-none-0" category. I've suggested a couple of projects, but can't add them to the appropriate categories.. is that decision going to made by the category owners now?

Kev

Offline djp

Junior Devvie





« Reply #7 - Posted 2003-06-23 19:01:31 »

For those wishing to gain a Developer role in a games-core.dev.java.net project, the contributor agreement is now up:

http://games-core.dev.java.net/sun_contrib_051903_javagames.pdf

d
Offline Athomas Goldberg

Junior Devvie




Grrrrrr...


« Reply #8 - Posted 2003-06-23 19:14:31 »

Quote
So whats up with the "0-none-0" category. I've suggested a couple of projects, but can't add them to the appropriate categories.. is that decision going to made by the category owners now?

Kev


For the time being categorization is being managed by the game site admin. Projects that appear to be game related are forwarded to the admin for approval by the java.net community admin (yes, it is as complicated as it sounds). To ensure your project makes it to the games admin and is categorized correctly include one of the following at the start of the project description:

[games-forge]
[games-middleware]
[games-research]
[games-tools]
[games-demos]

It also helps to send an email to gamesadmin@games.dev.java.net announcing the project, since we can then proactively query the java.net admins for the project status.

We are still working out some of the policy and organizational issues of the site, so please be patient, we accept to have everything resolved as quickly possible.

Athomas Goldberg
Project Lead / Wildcard
Game Technologies Group
Sun Microsystems, Inc.
Offline kaffiene
« Reply #9 - Posted 2003-06-23 23:27:58 »

Quote
For those wishing to gain a Developer role in a games-core.dev.java.net project, the contributor agreement is now up:

http://games-core.dev.java.net/sun_contrib_051903_javagames.pdf

d



Eeek! Is there going to be an electronic version of that? I don't have access to a fax machine
Games published by our own members! Check 'em out!
Legends of Yore - The Casual Retro Roguelike
Offline Athomas Goldberg

Junior Devvie




Grrrrrr...


« Reply #10 - Posted 2003-06-23 23:31:20 »

Will look into providing an electronic version, in the meantime, you can send the agreement by regular mail. If you've got ibug fixes or code changes you need to submit it the meantime, please direct them to the project owner, and they'll make sure they get integrated.  Smiley

Athomas Goldberg
Project Lead / Wildcard
Game Technologies Group
Sun Microsystems, Inc.
Offline kevglass

« JGO Spiffy Duke »


Medals: 212
Projects: 24
Exp: 18 years


Coder, Trainee Pixel Artist, Game Reviewer


« Reply #11 - Posted 2003-06-24 07:10:51 »

Seems like address should have been:

gamesadmin@dev.java.net

not

gamesadmin@games.dev.java.net

Kev


Offline Athomas Goldberg

Junior Devvie




Grrrrrr...


« Reply #12 - Posted 2003-06-24 12:04:46 »

Quote
Seems like address should have been:

gamesadmin@dev.java.net

not

gamesadmin@games.dev.java.net

Kev




You're right. Sorry about that.

Athomas Goldberg
Project Lead / Wildcard
Game Technologies Group
Sun Microsystems, Inc.
Offline nickdotjava

Junior Devvie




I have fallen to the dark side.  I'm using DX9


« Reply #13 - Posted 2003-06-24 13:45:24 »

Are we allowed to create our own projects?

-Nick

"Oh ya, that's trivial.  I should have it done in an hour."
Offline Athomas Goldberg

Junior Devvie




Grrrrrr...


« Reply #14 - Posted 2003-06-24 13:51:10 »

Quote
Are we allowed to create our own projects?


Yes. Take a look at http://games.dev.java.net for instructions on creating new projects

Athomas Goldberg
Project Lead / Wildcard
Game Technologies Group
Sun Microsystems, Inc.
Offline blahblahblahh

JGO Coder


Medals: 1


http://t-machine.org


« Reply #15 - Posted 2003-06-27 10:24:36 »

Quote
Just wanted to let everyone know that we have reorganized the games "category" on java.net.


Thanks, the re-org is much nicer Smiley

However, on the whole, the java.net is still rubbish when it comes to using it. I looked at the current games projects, found one that looked interesting (bouldercat), looked at the pretty screenshots, and then tried to download it.

[Note: this criticism is not directed at DJP, it's just that I'm hoping you might appreciate my pain, and have a quiet word with whoever owns the site - it sounds, from what you've been saying, that it's controlled by people completely outside the GTG group?]

"DOWNLOAD?!?! You can't DOWNLOAD things!!!", screamed java.net. Hmm. If I like using CVS [1] (and even know WTF that means), then I can try downloading lots of files, and hopefully I might work out how to compile the source. No binaries page, though.

You can't even download a ZIP or TAR of the source. This is crazy. Am I supposed to manually right-click-and-save each and every individual file in the project? And manually create the file structure?

This is shockingly bad, considering that you only have to glance at sourceforge.net and find a brilliant example of how to do it at least tolerably well. 650,000 registered users can't be entirely wrong!

ON the whole, java.net makes me feel like I probably can't touch anything unless I "login" and "apply to be a developer". Even then, I'm not sure I won't have to email a couple of people, beg a bit, wait a few days, and then maybe - just maybe - I might be able to download something.

malloc will be first against the wall when the revolution comes...
Offline djp

Junior Devvie





« Reply #16 - Posted 2003-06-28 15:51:08 »

Sorry you are having trouble with the site.  I believe to access the CVS repository all you need is to be a registered user.  There are instructions on how to setup CVS under the "How Do I..." section when you click on the "Source Code" menu item.  That said, I completely understand that a user of Java technology may not want to have to do all that.  Ideally you download a few jars and go.

We are currently working on getting binaries of nightly builds up on the site.  We are trying to do all we can with the current framework of java.net.  Hopefully we can get an environment that members will feel comfortable with.

Don't expect much to happen next week - Sun shuts down for the week and a lot of us will be going places that don't have internet access (scary thought, I know).

d
Offline djp

Junior Devvie





« Reply #17 - Posted 2003-07-15 15:22:43 »

To update everyone, we are working on the framwork for getting nightly binaries up.  It will most likely be incremental, first Windows, then we will bring up support for other OS's.

While everyone is waiting  Smiley, we encourage you to look over the proposed Governance Guidelines.  These are just a rough set of guidelines we would like to use to manage the games.dev.java.net site.   Please look them over:
http://games.dev.java.net/govern.html
and let us know what you think.

Thanks,

d
Offline blahblahblahh

JGO Coder


Medals: 1


http://t-machine.org


« Reply #18 - Posted 2003-07-16 09:41:42 »

Quote

While everyone is waiting  Smiley, we encourage you to look over the proposed Governance Guidelines.  These are just a rough set of guidelines we would like to use to manage the games.dev.java.net site.   Please look them over:
http://games.dev.java.net/govern.html
and let us know what you think.


You asked for comments Smiley, so...

IMHO, this is good. Things like SF.net have few major problems, but two of the bigger ones are dead projects (n.b. SF has recently started efforts to address that...) and lack of administrative review/control/etc (e.g. all projects are allowed to be started without any review first; many projects get duplicate two, three, or even as many as 5 or 10 times! [I can find examples if you need; e.g. because it has tens of thousands of projects, SF has plenty of dupes...]).

One problem that still isn't addressed is making it easy for casual users to be involved (e.g. the example I outlined above, whereby downloading a working version is a PITA).

It should be noted that even hardcore developers will often choose to act "casual" and want to click on a download link within 5 seconds of reading the intro para for a project, and TRY the current build before they decide if they want to go further. The "barrier to entry" on the different roles as currently documented in the Guidelines is far far too high (...but I hope you're addressing this already in light of my comments above?).

There should be a "Casual Browser" role that is instantaneous, requires no login, and is simple. In fact, there should be NO MENTION of the different roles until someone has been through the "casual" phase and decided to devote extra time to a project. There are so many projects around these days, and it takes so long to evaluate them all, that many people do a "first-pass" evaluation; this "role" would suit them, rather than turn them off completely.

Finally, I personally would be delighted if something similar to these guidelines (a parallel version?) could be created for publishing articles on JGO (c.f. http://www.JavaGaming.org/cgi-bin/JGNetForums/YaBB.cgi?board=suggestions;action=display;num=1057962485 for some heated discussion on this Smiley ).

malloc will be first against the wall when the revolution comes...
Offline djp

Junior Devvie





« Reply #19 - Posted 2003-07-16 19:37:38 »

Thanks for the positive feedback.

We are hoping to get binaries of nighly builds on the games-core projects up and running real soon.  Believe me we have had a lot of requests for them and are working hard to get them going.  It shouldn't be too much longer.

We hope to make the binaries available from the project's home page so no login and or role will be required.

Hopefully that will address your concenrs.

As far as guidelines for JGO articles, feel free to start with our as a base  Smiley

d
Offline DavidYazel

Junior Devvie




Java games rock!


« Reply #20 - Posted 2003-07-18 13:38:08 »

I have created a xith3d project, which I would like placed inside the middleware area.  It is awaiting approval.

David Yazel
Xith3D Project Founder
http://xith3d.dev.java.net

It may look complicated, but in the end it is just a bunch of triangles
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