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  Some f&% good games that should have been made in Java  (Read 6957 times)
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Offline zingbat

Senior Duke




Java games rock!


« Posted 2006-03-05 01:49:01 »

Spore video:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8372603330420559198&q=spore

The starts controling an ameba and the game evolves to a space travel with the guy controling a ovni and making contact with other species. Listen to the way he talks. This guy is a genious.

Another f%%&$ amazingly good game:

http://pc.gamespy.com/pc/galactic-civilizations-ii/693427p1.html

Put your eyes in these games people.
Offline Tzan

Junior Duke





« Reply #1 - Posted 2006-03-05 17:35:22 »

Listen to the way he talks. This guy is a genious.


That guy is Will Wright so uhm... yeah Smiley

Everyone needs to watch that video, its 35 minutes long.
Offline Mr_Light

Senior Duke


Medals: 1


shiny.


« Reply #2 - Posted 2006-03-05 20:08:56 »

Spore looks a lot like if not the same as the game I am Weasel plays with I R baboon. I remember talking about that someone should create a game like that 4 years ago.

http://www.tv.com/i-am-weasel/i.m-deity/episode/170324/summary.html

It's harder to read code than to write it. - it's even harder to write readable code.

The gospel of brother Riven: "The guarantee that all bugs are in *your* code is worth gold." Amen brother a-m-e-n.
Games published by our own members! Check 'em out!
Legends of Yore - The Casual Retro Roguelike
Offline Anon666

Junior Duke




aka Abuse/AbU5e/TehJumpingJawa


« Reply #3 - Posted 2006-03-05 23:02:24 »

Listen to the way he talks. This guy is a genious.


That guy is Will Wright so uhm... yeah Smiley

Everyone needs to watch that video, its 35 minutes long.

The full 1:15 version has alot more useful information in it too, it puts the entire project into context.
(as to how, and why it was achieved)
Offline Tzan

Junior Duke





« Reply #4 - Posted 2006-03-06 04:30:38 »

Oh I didnt know there was a longer version. The link above is just 35min. I was wondering why he stopped in mid sentence Smiley
Offline g666

Junior Duke





« Reply #5 - Posted 2006-03-06 19:22:46 »

Spore looks great, but is it just another everything sim? Smiley

desperately seeking sanity
Offline ChrisM

JGO Coder


Medals: 3
Projects: 1
Exp: 14 years


Luke...END OF LINE


« Reply #6 - Posted 2006-03-06 19:27:14 »

Spore looks great, but is it just another everything sim? Smiley

Sure, but with emergent AI and procedural generation of EVERYTHING.  the ground work being done there could have far reaching effects on the development industry overall.

Offline Tzan

Junior Duke





« Reply #7 - Posted 2006-03-06 20:46:33 »


Sure, but with emergent AI and procedural generation of EVERYTHING.  the ground work being done there could have far reaching effects on the development industry overall.

Yup. My conversation with a Turbine producer was basically me telling him they need to create content procedurally and him just finding reasons to not do it. They were too far along on D&D and LOTRO to shift. Of course I wasnt thinking of doing animation that way Smiley
Offline Timedancer

Senior Newbie




Flower power!


« Reply #8 - Posted 2006-03-06 23:17:50 »

I think Spore is the most interesting game on the horizon at the moment. It combines procedural generation of content, with player “directed evolution” of the procedures. That makes new user generated content very easy to ship around, and limits the freedom of users to generate “naughty” content. If it works, once its running, the developers can just sit back and watch the players entertain each other. Of course, given the publisher, they will likely ship expansion packs anyway.

 I’m a bit biased though, as the game is asynchronous multi-player, like the one I am developing. Its encouraging seeing one of the big guys following the same playstyle.

Offline Jeff

JGO Coder




Got any cats?


« Reply #9 - Posted 2006-03-06 23:40:28 »

Spore is a fascinating concept.

Now translating that fascinating concept into realistic and engaging gameplay will be a challenge.

Im not going to lay bets any direction on its success or failure.

Got a question about Java and game programming?  Just new to the Java Game Development Community?  Try my FAQ.  Its likely you'll learn something!

http://wiki.java.net/bin/view/Games/JeffFAQ
Games published by our own members! Check 'em out!
Legends of Yore - The Casual Retro Roguelike
Offline Markus_Persson

JGO Wizard


Medals: 16
Projects: 19


Mojang Specifications


« Reply #10 - Posted 2006-03-07 08:44:02 »

Spore seems like a horrible game to me. Undecided
Parts of it are really impressive (the creature design tool, for example), but other things just seem incredibly shallow and uninteresting.

The first couple of stages of the game seem like basically a variant of that fish tank flash game where you can only eat fish that are smaller than you.

Not until you hit the village level does the game seem to offer any real challenges, and even then they're pointless. Without a plot or a conflict more subtle than "there are other random towns on the map, and they can attack you", actually playing this stage seems more like a chore than something that's actually fun.

And when you get the ufo.. well.. heh.. No more game. Basically everything you struggled for so far, you can do for free now, making it all a pointless chore. What's the point of spending the entire game trying to perfect your creature and it's society when you can just make a new one in a couple of minutes in the god mode?


I'm picking it up like a ringing phone, of course, but I don't expect it to last very long. :\

Play Minecraft!
Offline zingbat

Senior Duke




Java games rock!


« Reply #11 - Posted 2006-03-07 11:17:36 »

The first couple of stages of the game seem like basically a variant of that fish tank flash game where you can only eat fish that are smaller than you.

You can also upgrade your "bug" with new stuff like a needle and other things. It's a very creative process that gets used in all stages of the game. I suspect you will evolve from a small water bug to a fish and then to a land walking creature.

Not until you hit the village level does the game seem to offer any real challenges, and even then they're pointless. Without a plot or a conflict more subtle than "there are other random towns on the map, and they can attack you", actually playing this stage seems more like a chore than something that's actually fun.

What has this world come to. People wanting a plot for playing a simulator game?  Grin

And when you get the ufo.. well.. heh.. No more game.

That  wasn't very explict but i think the computer generates other space civilizations and you have to compete with them. Have you seen the entire movie? You can listen to aliens to detect their presence in some planets. The aliens are suposed to have an atitude like the klingom who want to expand at all costs. However in this regard Spore is just like sim city. You grow your space empire until it can stand by himself.
Offline Markus_Persson

JGO Wizard


Medals: 16
Projects: 19


Mojang Specifications


« Reply #12 - Posted 2006-03-07 13:32:39 »

* Markus_Persson yawns and gets back to playing good games instead.

Play Minecraft!
Offline Tzan

Junior Duke





« Reply #13 - Posted 2006-03-07 15:17:43 »

If you dont like SimCity or TheSims then you probably wont like this either, unless they add more gamish elements that havent been disclosed yet.
Offline Markus_Persson

JGO Wizard


Medals: 16
Projects: 19


Mojang Specifications


« Reply #14 - Posted 2006-03-07 15:30:09 »

I loved Sim City (and Transport Tycoon, and Rollercoaster Tycoon). I even loved Black and White.
Those games offered some kind of coherent challenge.

Spore, not so much.

I geniuinely hope I get proved wrong, but that demo wasn't even close to anything I'd want to play.

Play Minecraft!
Offline blahblahblahh

JGO Coder


Medals: 1


http://t-machine.org


« Reply #15 - Posted 2006-03-07 16:44:02 »

If you dont like SimCity or TheSims then you probably wont like this either, unless they add more gamish elements that havent been disclosed yet.

Youngsters Tongue.

I think the key point here is all the Maxis SimXXX games you *didn't* mention that were utter crap.

The main common feature? No plot, not enough "game", too little cohesion, too much "simulation for simulation's sake", no "score"/"points"/etc.

Worst of the lot: SimEarth.

Followed by other great bestselling (not) games such as SimAnt etc...

* blahblahblahh still has original boxed copies of simearth and simcity. Dont think I've got originals for any of the others.

malloc will be first against the wall when the revolution comes...
Offline zingbat

Senior Duke




Java games rock!


« Reply #16 - Posted 2006-03-07 17:38:34 »

The point here is Spore and Galatics Civilization II but ok the guy isn't perfect and can't please all tastes. If you don't play a simulation game for the simulation then why do you play it at all? It's like complaining that chess doesn't have a plot.  Cool
Offline Markus_Persson

JGO Wizard


Medals: 16
Projects: 19


Mojang Specifications


« Reply #17 - Posted 2006-03-07 18:00:03 »

(Spore is not a simulation)

Play Minecraft!
Offline blahblahblahh

JGO Coder


Medals: 1


http://t-machine.org


« Reply #18 - Posted 2006-03-07 18:19:37 »

The point here is Spore and Galatics Civilization II but ok the guy isn't perfect and can't please all tastes. If you don't play a simulation game for the simulation then why do you play it at all? It's like complaining that chess doesn't have a plot.  Cool


Um, no, it's like saying that an awful lot of the simulation games have been crap because there was no real game-design behind them. Which a lot of people who see the spore videos don't seem to stop and consider - they just say "yay, simulation! Universe, ameoba, evolution! Cool!".

In fact, I'd go as far as to say that Spore is merely SimEarth2, but sounds like this time he thought to put in some AI. This can only be a good thing. Given how pants SE was, I'll wait and see before panning or praising spore.

malloc will be first against the wall when the revolution comes...
Offline kylix999

Junior Duke





« Reply #19 - Posted 2006-03-07 18:53:24 »


i was thinking what hardware will be required to run that game and simulate whole galaxy Grin
Offline swpalmer

JGO Coder


Exp: 12 years


Where's the Kaboom?


« Reply #20 - Posted 2006-03-07 19:09:52 »

Without a plot or a conflict more subtle than "there are other random towns on the map, and they can attack you", actually playing this stage seems more like a chore than something that's actually fun.

And yet that is the plot of pretty much EVERY successful real-time strategy game I can think of. Smiley

Offline Mr_Light

Senior Duke


Medals: 1


shiny.


« Reply #21 - Posted 2006-03-07 19:21:05 »

Followed by other great bestselling (not) games such as SimAnt etc...

simtower! yes!

It's harder to read code than to write it. - it's even harder to write readable code.

The gospel of brother Riven: "The guarantee that all bugs are in *your* code is worth gold." Amen brother a-m-e-n.
Offline Markus_Persson

JGO Wizard


Medals: 16
Projects: 19


Mojang Specifications


« Reply #22 - Posted 2006-03-07 20:36:03 »

Without a plot or a conflict more subtle than "there are other random towns on the map, and they can attack you", actually playing this stage seems more like a chore than something that's actually fun.

And yet that is the plot of pretty much EVERY successful real-time strategy game I can think of. Smiley

You seriously think spore has a plot? :-o

Play Minecraft!
Offline princec

JGO Kernel


Medals: 404
Projects: 3
Exp: 16 years


Eh? Who? What? ... Me?


« Reply #23 - Posted 2006-03-07 20:43:23 »

Spore is a selection of different games, with a scope linking them never before seen (don't forget the multiplayer dimension), and some wonderfully clever programming and nice graphics. I hope they manage to make it fun. It doesn't have to be about points. Sometimes it's just fun to Make Stuff.

Cas Smiley

Offline Mr_Light

Senior Duke


Medals: 1


shiny.


« Reply #24 - Posted 2006-03-07 20:50:28 »

I always thought evolution was about the survival of the fittest, is there a more compatative game around?

It's harder to read code than to write it. - it's even harder to write readable code.

The gospel of brother Riven: "The guarantee that all bugs are in *your* code is worth gold." Amen brother a-m-e-n.
Offline zingbat

Senior Duke




Java games rock!


« Reply #25 - Posted 2006-03-07 21:32:14 »

Um, no, it's like saying that an awful lot of the simulation games have been crap because there was no real game-design behind them. Which a lot of people who see the spore videos don't seem to stop and consider - they just say "yay, simulation! Universe, ameoba, evolution! Cool!".

It looks like you are missing a lot of what spore gameplay is and also what people are arguing in this thread. If you enjoyed SimCity then you will probably enjoy Spore too without the over-management of SimEarth.

In fact, I'd go as far as to say that Spore is merely SimEarth2, but sounds like this time he thought to put in some AI. This can only be a good thing. Given how pants SE was, I'll wait and see before panning or praising spore.

It's very different than just another SimEarth with clever ai. Its much more like a mix of all his previous games with an added bonus that you can experiment and build new life forms and new structures.  It's very well described in the presentation video.
Offline zingbat

Senior Duke




Java games rock!


« Reply #26 - Posted 2006-03-07 21:36:33 »

You seriously think spore has a plot? :-o

Actualy he said a plot similar to every successful classic simulator game that is zero plot.  Grin
Offline Markus_Persson

JGO Wizard


Medals: 16
Projects: 19


Mojang Specifications


« Reply #27 - Posted 2006-03-07 22:17:31 »

You seriously think spore has a plot? :-o

Actualy he said a plot similar to every successful classic simulator game that is zero plot.  Grin


Oh, I disagree. Compared to spore, they were frigging nobel prize winning novels.

In populous, I knew why I was fighting. There was a POINT to the fighting.
The same goes for dungeon keeper, black and white, transport tycoon.. heck, even pizza tycoon.

Sim City is the only game I can think of that didn't really have a plot or a point.. But instead it focused on one thing and made it diverse and challenging enough to be interesting.


Now kids, repeat after me:
Omnipotence is not fun.

Play Minecraft!
Offline Markus_Persson

JGO Wizard


Medals: 16
Projects: 19


Mojang Specifications


« Reply #28 - Posted 2006-03-07 22:20:40 »

You seriously think spore has a plot? :-o

Actualy he said a plot similar to every successful classic simulator game that is zero plot.  Grin


Oh, besides, he said it had the same amount of plot as every other successful real time strategy game.

You know, like Command and Conquer, StarCraft, Dune 2, Warcraft and Total Annihilation. ALL of them totally devoid of plot and sense of purpose. Wink

Play Minecraft!
Offline swpalmer

JGO Coder


Exp: 12 years


Where's the Kaboom?


« Reply #29 - Posted 2006-03-07 22:32:26 »

Oh, I disagree. Compared to spore, they were frigging nobel prize winning novels.

In populous, I knew why I was fighting. There was a POINT to the fighting.
The same goes for dungeon keeper, black and white, transport tycoon.. heck, even pizza tycoon.

What do you know about Spore that indicates that the point is not the same as any of the above?   You fight to stay alive.  You fight to see what's next.  You fight to see what you can achieve...  Setting things up and seeing how well they work out can be fun even if there was little more to it.  It depends on the scope of the variables and the possible outcomes.

They can make it fun.  The question is will they succeed?

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