Some f&% good games that should have been made in Java

[zingbat]

Spore video:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8372603330420559198&q=spore

The starts controling an ameba and the game evolves to a space travel with the guy controling a ovni and making contact with other species. Listen to the way he talks. This guy is a genious.

Another f%%&$ amazingly good game:

http://pc.gamespy.com/pc/galactic-civilizations-ii/693427p1.html

Put your eyes in these games people.

[Tzan]

Listen to the way he talks. This guy is a genious.

That guy is Will Wright so uhm... yeah

Everyone needs to watch that video, its 35 minutes long.

[Mr_Light]

Spore looks a lot like if not the same as the game I am Weasel plays with I R baboon. I remember talking about that someone should create a game like that 4 years ago.

http://www.tv.com/i-am-weasel/i.m-deity/episode/170324/summary.html

Games published by our own members! Check 'em out!

[Anon666]

Listen to the way he talks. This guy is a genious.

That guy is Will Wright so uhm... yeah

Everyone needs to watch that video, its 35 minutes long.

The full 1:15 version has alot more useful information in it too, it puts the entire project into context.
(as to how, and why it was achieved)

[Tzan]

Oh I didnt know there was a longer version. The link above is just 35min. I was wondering why he stopped in mid sentence

[g666]

Spore looks great, but is it just another everything sim?

[ChrisM]

Spore looks great, but is it just another everything sim?

Sure, but with emergent AI and procedural generation of EVERYTHING.  the ground work being done there could have far reaching effects on the development industry overall.

[Tzan]

Sure, but with emergent AI and procedural generation of EVERYTHING.  the ground work being done there could have far reaching effects on the development industry overall.

Yup. My conversation with a Turbine producer was basically me telling him they need to create content procedurally and him just finding reasons to not do it. They were too far along on D&D and LOTRO to shift. Of course I wasnt thinking of doing animation that way

[Timedancer]

I think Spore is the most interesting game on the horizon at the moment. It combines procedural generation of content, with player “directed evolution” of the procedures. That makes new user generated content very easy to ship around, and limits the freedom of users to generate “naughty” content. If it works, once its running, the developers can just sit back and watch the players entertain each other. Of course, given the publisher, they will likely ship expansion packs anyway.

 I’m a bit biased though, as the game is asynchronous multi-player, like the one I am developing. Its encouraging seeing one of the big guys following the same playstyle.

[Jeff]

Spore is a fascinating concept.

Now translating that fascinating concept into realistic and engaging gameplay will be a challenge.

Im not going to lay bets any direction on its success or failure.

Games published by our own members! Check 'em out!

[Markus_Persson]

Spore seems like a horrible game to me.
Parts of it are really impressive (the creature design tool, for example), but other things just seem incredibly shallow and uninteresting.

The first couple of stages of the game seem like basically a variant of that fish tank flash game where you can only eat fish that are smaller than you.

Not until you hit the village level does the game seem to offer any real challenges, and even then they're pointless. Without a plot or a conflict more subtle than "there are other random towns on the map, and they can attack you", actually playing this stage seems more like a chore than something that's actually fun.

And when you get the ufo.. well.. heh.. No more game. Basically everything you struggled for so far, you can do for free now, making it all a pointless chore. What's the point of spending the entire game trying to perfect your creature and it's society when you can just make a new one in a couple of minutes in the god mode?


I'm picking it up like a ringing phone, of course, but I don't expect it to last very long. :\

[zingbat]

The first couple of stages of the game seem like basically a variant of that fish tank flash game where you can only eat fish that are smaller than you.

You can also upgrade your "bug" with new stuff like a needle and other things. It's a very creative process that gets used in all stages of the game. I suspect you will evolve from a small water bug to a fish and then to a land walking creature.

Not until you hit the village level does the game seem to offer any real challenges, and even then they're pointless. Without a plot or a conflict more subtle than "there are other random towns on the map, and they can attack you", actually playing this stage seems more like a chore than something that's actually fun.

What has this world come to. People wanting a plot for playing a simulator game? 

And when you get the ufo.. well.. heh.. No more game.

That  wasn't very explict but i think the computer generates other space civilizations and you have to compete with them. Have you seen the entire movie? You can listen to aliens to detect their presence in some planets. The aliens are suposed to have an atitude like the klingom who want to expand at all costs. However in this regard Spore is just like sim city. You grow your space empire until it can stand by himself.

[Markus_Persson]

* Markus_Persson yawns and gets back to playing good games instead.

[Tzan]

If you dont like SimCity or TheSims then you probably wont like this either, unless they add more gamish elements that havent been disclosed yet.

[Markus_Persson]

I loved Sim City (and Transport Tycoon, and Rollercoaster Tycoon). I even loved Black and White.
Those games offered some kind of coherent challenge.

Spore, not so much.

I geniuinely hope I get proved wrong, but that demo wasn't even close to anything I'd want to play.

[blahblahblahh]

If you dont like SimCity or TheSims then you probably wont like this either, unless they add more gamish elements that havent been disclosed yet.

Youngsters .

I think the key point here is all the Maxis SimXXX games you *didn't* mention that were utter crap.

The main common feature? No plot, not enough "game", too little cohesion, too much "simulation for simulation's sake", no "score"/"points"/etc.

Worst of the lot: SimEarth.

Followed by other great bestselling (not) games such as SimAnt etc...

* blahblahblahh still has original boxed copies of simearth and simcity. Dont think I've got originals for any of the others.

[zingbat]

The point here is Spore and Galatics Civilization II but ok the guy isn't perfect and can't please all tastes. If you don't play a simulation game for the simulation then why do you play it at all? It's like complaining that chess doesn't have a plot. 

[Markus_Persson]

(Spore is not a simulation)

[blahblahblahh]

The point here is Spore and Galatics Civilization II but ok the guy isn't perfect and can't please all tastes. If you don't play a simulation game for the simulation then why do you play it at all? It's like complaining that chess doesn't have a plot. 

Um, no, it's like saying that an awful lot of the simulation games have been crap because there was no real game-design behind them. Which a lot of people who see the spore videos don't seem to stop and consider - they just say "yay, simulation! Universe, ameoba, evolution! Cool!".

In fact, I'd go as far as to say that Spore is merely SimEarth2, but sounds like this time he thought to put in some AI. This can only be a good thing. Given how pants SE was, I'll wait and see before panning or praising spore.

[kylix999]

i was thinking what hardware will be required to run that game and simulate whole galaxy

[swpalmer]

Without a plot or a conflict more subtle than "there are other random towns on the map, and they can attack you", actually playing this stage seems more like a chore than something that's actually fun.

And yet that is the plot of pretty much EVERY successful real-time strategy game I can think of.

[Mr_Light]

Followed by other great bestselling (not) games such as SimAnt etc...

simtower! yes!

[Markus_Persson]

Without a plot or a conflict more subtle than "there are other random towns on the map, and they can attack you", actually playing this stage seems more like a chore than something that's actually fun.

And yet that is the plot of pretty much EVERY successful real-time strategy game I can think of.

You seriously think spore has a plot? :-o

[princec]

Spore is a selection of different games, with a scope linking them never before seen (don't forget the multiplayer dimension), and some wonderfully clever programming and nice graphics. I hope they manage to make it fun. It doesn't have to be about points. Sometimes it's just fun to Make Stuff.

Cas

[Mr_Light]

I always thought evolution was about the survival of the fittest, is there a more compatative game around?

[zingbat]

Um, no, it's like saying that an awful lot of the simulation games have been crap because there was no real game-design behind them. Which a lot of people who see the spore videos don't seem to stop and consider - they just say "yay, simulation! Universe, ameoba, evolution! Cool!".

It looks like you are missing a lot of what spore gameplay is and also what people are arguing in this thread. If you enjoyed SimCity then you will probably enjoy Spore too without the over-management of SimEarth.

In fact, I'd go as far as to say that Spore is merely SimEarth2, but sounds like this time he thought to put in some AI. This can only be a good thing. Given how pants SE was, I'll wait and see before panning or praising spore.

It's very different than just another SimEarth with clever ai. Its much more like a mix of all his previous games with an added bonus that you can experiment and build new life forms and new structures.  It's very well described in the presentation video.

[zingbat]

You seriously think spore has a plot? :-o

Actualy he said a plot similar to every successful classic simulator game that is zero plot. 

[Markus_Persson]

You seriously think spore has a plot? :-o

Actualy he said a plot similar to every successful classic simulator game that is zero plot. 

Oh, I disagree. Compared to spore, they were frigging nobel prize winning novels.

In populous, I knew why I was fighting. There was a POINT to the fighting.
The same goes for dungeon keeper, black and white, transport tycoon.. heck, even pizza tycoon.

Sim City is the only game I can think of that didn't really have a plot or a point.. But instead it focused on one thing and made it diverse and challenging enough to be interesting.


Now kids, repeat after me:
Omnipotence is not fun.

[Markus_Persson]

You seriously think spore has a plot? :-o

Actualy he said a plot similar to every successful classic simulator game that is zero plot. 

Oh, besides, he said it had the same amount of plot as every other successful real time strategy game.

You know, like Command and Conquer, StarCraft, Dune 2, Warcraft and Total Annihilation. ALL of them totally devoid of plot and sense of purpose.

[swpalmer]

Oh, I disagree. Compared to spore, they were frigging nobel prize winning novels.

In populous, I knew why I was fighting. There was a POINT to the fighting.
The same goes for dungeon keeper, black and white, transport tycoon.. heck, even pizza tycoon.

What do you know about Spore that indicates that the point is not the same as any of the above?   You fight to stay alive.  You fight to see what's next.  You fight to see what you can achieve...  Setting things up and seeing how well they work out can be fun even if there was little more to it.  It depends on the scope of the variables and the possible outcomes.

They can make it fun.  The question is will they succeed?