Java versus C++

[uj]

This is silly. The "language vs language" argument exists in virtually every programming forum I've ever seen. It's pointless because there is NO definative finalization of the basic tenents of the argument. Use what YOU want, for whatever reason YOU want. There are no clear cut winners or losers, every language has it's strengths and faults. It's a subject that has been beaten to death ad nauseum. 

You're both right and wrong. You're right in that the issue most likely will never be resolved with a simple yes or no. You're wrong when you say that the issue therefore is uninteresting. (*)

The most interesting issues are those with no definite answer. They deserve to be constantly discussed.

(*) At this point I would probably say something about JavaJeff's lack of insight but I'll refrain from that because even such an obvious assessment seems to be revolutionary here.

[uj]

True. Moderation equals dicatorship. If you dont like how the mods handle it, go away.

Its as simple as that.

Moderators are accountable for their actions just like everybody else.

[uj]

This trolling has already been locked once.

I think its probably account ban time...

This statement is inflamatory and against the rules of conduct of every forum I know about.

I've said it before. Jeff's "credits" mean nothing to me. I've found him wanting in discussion and that's what matters to me.

Games published by our own members! Check 'em out!

[oNyx]

True. Moderation equals dicatorship. If you dont like how the mods handle it, go away.

Its as simple as that.

Moderators are accountable for their actions just like everybody else.

And your point is?

[uj]

True. Moderation equals dicatorship. If you dont like how the mods handle it, go away.

Its as simple as that.

Moderators are accountable for their actions just like everybody else.

And your point is?

What is this - kindergarden? Moderating doesn't equals dictatorship as you say because moderators are accountable. Moderators don't exist in empty space, they're assigned the job.

[uj]

I am actually interested too to find out what programs/games uj developed? uj?

Why should I offer this information? By the way, who's asking?

[uj]

I don't care

If we wanted to discuss something far more useful in here we'd be talking about Java versus BlitzMax.

Cas

Well I can see a joke when it's coming but why don't you muster some courage and support my case.

To be able to don't care about performance Java developers need tools written in the performance concious C++ language right? 

[uj]

http://www.criticalmiss.com/issue9/troll1.html

Well it cannot be my problem if you find me provoking. This "banning" of an important discussion just shows there are vested interests here.

[uj]

I'm divided into saying uj is a poor guy and saying he must have scored 1500 at the troll game...

Well is it bad or good? 

[uj]

Gentlemen. We have here a professional troll. A troll who will stop at nothing - let no weakness of any forum unexploited - to incite flamewars, leaving in its path a trail of blackened, burnt-out bytes. It derives pleasure from, or perhaps even feeds on the very essence of outrage expressed in reply to its utterances. Utterances, laid out like bait on a hook, waiting for the unsuspecting javagamer to be dragged into an endless discussion. (sinister music should be played while reading this message)

Are you looking for brownie points or a position as moderator?

If you have an argument state it.

Games published by our own members! Check 'em out!

[uj]

Choose whichever language you want and leave the honest people sleep. Now please sh*t up. You may want to troll on *cough* slashdot *cough* (as somebody said) but not here.

You don't have to reply if you don't want to. Why do you? Sleep well.

[oNyx]

True. Moderation equals dicatorship. If you dont like how the mods handle it, go away.

Its as simple as that.

Moderators are accountable for their actions just like everybody else.

And your point is?

What is this - kindergarden? Moderating doesn't equals dictatorship as you say because moderators are accountable. Moderators don't exist in empty space, they're assigned the job.

Look its simple. If a moderator decides to ban you, because you're talking bs 24/7 (from his pov) then he's free to do so and you have to accept that. A moderator can also ban you because he feels like doing so. However, there are already enough good reasons to do so (trolling and spamming for example).

[tusaki]

I think the point is, that asking "hey, how does ford compare to a toyota" at a toyota message board will not yield very much usefull information for comparisons sake.

In my opinion, at this point in time, c++ game development is more well established, its pitfalls are more well know, the tools are more mature, and, not least of all, most experienced game developers program in it. However, java is gaining in both feature richness (the available toolkits) as well as in speed (To the point where I would say it is not an issue anymore when deciding in which programming language to program in.). In addition, java has other advantages. I feel that java is more standarized, complete and well tested for the features it provides. (The API package. kitchen sink anyone?) Also, everyone in the CS field learns CS through java nowadays, so the potential developer base for developing great games and great gaming toolkits is huge. Programming games in java, however, is the least mature if you compare it to other areas where java is used. (enterprise application development mostly). I love java though, and although I only program games and demo's and toolkits as a hobby, I see a bright future for java game development.

[darkprophet]

Edit: Just found out that trolls get encouraged when insulted. Someone else can swoop to your level.

DP

[uj]

Well up to now I've been busy replying to people who don't want to post in this thread so my question is - why do you?

Let's see for a change if someone has something to say about why Java isn't used as much for gaming (and desktop applications in general) as we all think it should be. It seems C++ is holding up quite well doesn't it?

My initial proposition is that Java only recently has become fit enougth, I'd say with Java 5 or so, to be a serious contender to C++. Version 6 looks even more  promising so in about 5 years from now Java probably will have say 50% of the games market.

It would help immensly if Sun would publish figures showing that Java actually has become faster than statically compiled code. This is very important because it was promised in the early hype days of java. It would help Java overcome its serious credibility problem.

[uj]

Look its simple. If a moderator decides to ban you, because you're talking bs 24/7 (from his pov) then he's free to do so and you have to accept that. A moderator can also ban you because he feels like doing so. However, there are already enough good reasons to do so (trolling and spamming for example).

Okay I get your point. You're afraid of being banned so you refrain from saying anything of value. I'm not, so I keep arguing about a topic I find interesting.

[uj]

Edit: Just found out that trolls get encouraged when insulted. Someone else can swoop to your level.

DP

I'm sure you did but why don't you snap out of this troll obsession and try to to participate in the discusion at hand? I bet you haven't the faintest idea and that's worse than trolling. It's like being a wannabe troll.

[ChrisM]

Watch this....*CLICK*!  And the reason it's locked?  More than a page of .uj arguing, insulting a bunch of people (like Cas) who said nothing to you and staying off topic.   One more time and I'm banning you.

-Chris