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  Technology Preview using LWJGL  (Read 2624 times)
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Offline Rob Grzywinski

Junior Member




Reality Interactive


« Posted 2003-06-09 16:01:03 »

I don't know how many of you read the "Your Games Here" topic (I never did) so I decided to double post.

Please check out Reality Interactive's Technology Preview at http://www.realityinteractive.com.

The primary purpose of this technology preview is to show what is really possible with Java.  If you watch the demo and get that much more charged up about game development on Java then it has served its purpose.

Thanks to the LWJGL guys for their help and for contributing to the momentum that is Java Gaming!
Offline Mojomonkey

Senior Member




ooh ooh eee eeee


« Reply #1 - Posted 2003-06-09 16:12:33 »

Looks great! When can I play? Smiley

Don't send a man to do a monkey's work.
Offline Matzon

JGO Knight


Medals: 19
Projects: 1


I'm gonna wring your pants!


« Reply #2 - Posted 2003-06-09 16:39:49 »

and now I don't know where to post  Grin

Since this is mostly related to performance, How slow IS JavaSound???

it performed a wee bit laggy, then I added the -nosound switch, and WOW - like day and night! Smiley

Yeah, how do I play?

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Legends of Yore - The Casual Retro Roguelike
Offline oNyx

JGO Coder


Medals: 1


pixels! :x


« Reply #3 - Posted 2003-06-09 17:51:50 »

Quote
[...]
Since this is mostly related to performance, How slow IS JavaSound???
[...]


Hmm... didn't make a difference for me. I had 14-19 fps all the time :/

I have about 160-250fps with glmqwcl (it's a quakeworld client). So... it's much slower than expected.

[k7 500/128mb/gf2mx/win98se]

edit:
I forgot to mention that there wasn't any gc pauses. Good work Wink

弾幕 ☆ @mahonnaiseblog
Offline bedelf

Junior Member




Are you suggesting coconuts migrate?


« Reply #4 - Posted 2003-06-09 18:00:21 »

..are they using JavaSound? For my simple 2D engine it sucked a good 15-20 fps out of it by playing *1* sound. hence my post, "Java Sound Sucks", and really one of the main reasons I moved to LWJGL. Sun API's pissing me off for the last time. Tongue
Offline GergisKhan

Junior Member




"C8 H10 N4 O2"


« Reply #5 - Posted 2003-06-09 18:02:19 »

bedelf,

How many fps were you trying to display, out of curiousity?

gK

"Go.  Teach them not to mess with us."
          -- Cao Cao, Dynasty Warriors 3
Offline princec

JGO Kernel


Medals: 342
Projects: 3
Exp: 16 years


Eh? Who? What? ... Me?


« Reply #6 - Posted 2003-06-09 18:27:01 »

But why bother with javasound when you've got OpenAL to play with???

/me goes off to download the demo...

Cas Smiley

Offline bedelf

Junior Member




Are you suggesting coconuts migrate?


« Reply #7 - Posted 2003-06-09 20:11:40 »

How many FPS was I trying to get? As many as possible. Tongue Not sure I understand where your going with that question.
Offline Matzon

JGO Knight


Medals: 19
Projects: 1


I'm gonna wring your pants!


« Reply #8 - Posted 2003-06-09 20:23:27 »

damnit, I cannot get more than ~60 fps...
I assume idle time is the time spend not doing anything right? - I am wasting ~ 500 ms!
I am currently running it with
1  
-width 1024 -height 768 -bpp 32 -freq 100 +rate 8000

getting 60 fps stable

regardinbg nosound - it runs much * faster* - not FPS wise, so I suspect it is some timing issues?

Offline Matzon

JGO Knight


Medals: 19
Projects: 1


I'm gonna wring your pants!


« Reply #9 - Posted 2003-06-09 20:29:39 »

hmm watching several demos, sound suddenly seems to fail?

Games published by our own members! Check 'em out!
Legends of Yore - The Casual Retro Roguelike
Offline Rob Grzywinski

Junior Member




Reality Interactive


« Reply #10 - Posted 2003-06-10 01:49:32 »

As I stated on the "Your Games Here" topic, I apologize for the delay in responding to everyone.

Let me first just thank everyone for their support and positive responses.

To Mojomonkey:  Soon.  Very soon.  We didn't want to muddy the waters with network problems, mouse problems, keyboard lock-up, etc, etc, etc.  We simply wanted to get the word out that Java IS ready for gaming.

To Matzon:  I personally have no beef with Java Sound.  In fact, once your overcome the barrier to entry, it's actually a nice API.  There are issues, such as Linux will randomly loop sounds and Windows will clip (as seen with the nailgun) but it's not too shabby.

If people are having bad performance with it, try JRE 1.4.2b.  There have been significant performance improvements in that JRE and all of our development was done with it but unfortunately because of its beta status we could not redistribute it.

To princec:  To be honest, we went with JavaSound because there were so many people saying that it was so poor.  We knew that we could make it work.  In general though, the Simulation Container is not specific to any sound (graphics, network, input, etc) API.  Why didn't we use Java3D then?  Let's just say that that barrier to entry to JavaSound that I mentioned before really took something out of us.

To bedelf:  The frame rate has an upper bound on it right now so there's no "timedemo" equivalent.  We will look into adding something like this for the playable version.  I think that the limit is around 65 fps.

All:  We will be trying to get out all of the information that we have learned in producing this demo over the next few months.  We have a product goal to meet so excuse our silence from time to time.  Once all is in place you will have the source code in hand to pour over with a nice cup of Java  Smiley
Offline bedelf

Junior Member




Are you suggesting coconuts migrate?


« Reply #11 - Posted 2003-06-10 04:03:02 »

You directed a comment at me so I'll just clarify that I wasn't referencing your project in any way with my comments. I was talking about my own devices from once upon a time.

Just watching that brought back so many GOOD memories. The Quake community was so fun back then, all the modding and scrimming was so new and so FUN. Everyone focused on *1* game. I doubt it will ever be like that again.
Offline Chman

Junior Member




Nothing more that... Java games are cool !


« Reply #12 - Posted 2003-06-17 10:06:23 »

Hum...

using : 1024x768 @ 60 Hz bpp=32
nosound : 50fps
sound : 45fps

(PIII-800Mhz, GeForce2mx, 384Mo SDRam)

++
Chman
Offline princec

JGO Kernel


Medals: 342
Projects: 3
Exp: 16 years


Eh? Who? What? ... Me?


« Reply #13 - Posted 2003-06-17 14:22:05 »

Hm, some optimisation required I think. I believe that spec machine should run about four times as fast for a quake scene. How fast is normal GLQuake on the same data?

Cas Smiley

Offline Rob Grzywinski

Junior Member




Reality Interactive


« Reply #14 - Posted 2003-06-17 14:37:54 »

We spent zero time optimizing the code, the render paths or the JVM before releasing the demo. Quite honestly we wanted to show people what we consider to be a "worst case scenero" and get feedback.

For example, the is no frustum culling for anything but the world.  All mesh and non-world BSP models are drawn.  This is a considerable amount of goo going down the pipe that isn't needed. We wanted to see if Java could handle large poly loads.

In order to get the somewhat cool particle effects we are fill rate bound.  This is just pure laziness on our part as our goal is not to write a game engine -- it is to provide a simulation framework.  Once the source is released to the community people can tune and remove what they want as they see fit.

Two things that I think people are forgetting is that the demo we are presenting:

1.  Is NOT Quake.  We did not do a port of Quake to Java.  We started from scratch, created a framework, and to prove that the framework was sound, we added some Quake compatibility.

2.  Looks drastically different and has different capabilities from Quake.  There is dynamic colored lighting, decals, etc, etc, etc.  It is more on par with Quake 2 than it it with Quake 1.  If you have the chance, get GLQuake and take a look at it.  You'll be quite surprised.
Offline Orangy Tang

JGO Kernel


Medals: 56
Projects: 11


Monkey for a head


« Reply #15 - Posted 2003-06-17 21:14:28 »

Wow, right up until the first particle effect it looked exactly like the original GLQuake Grin

I get a 30ish fps with sound, and 50 to 40 without. Doesn't seem to be fill limited, but i didn't test it on anything higher than 1024xwhatever.

Athlon 800, GeForce2 GTS, loads of RAM.

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