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Offline Alan_W

JGO Knight


Medals: 8
Projects: 3


Java tames rock!


« Reply #30 - Posted 2006-02-01 08:34:35 »

I spent a fair bit of time comparing kzip & 7zip in december.  I found that 7zip gave good results, but that manually playing about with the kzip parameters could find a "sweet spot" with better compression.  You need to generate zips with several /bxxx options & then select the best one.

The Joga/Proguard combo looks interesting.  Currently I'm using proguard 3.2 as I've found some of the proguard 3.4 optimisations cause a significant loss in throughput.  This was particularly a problem with Speed4k, which really hammers the processor.

Alan

Time flies like a bird. Fruit flies like a banana.
Offline jbanes

JGO Coder


Projects: 1


"Java Games? Incredible! Mr. Incredible, that is!"


« Reply #31 - Posted 2006-02-16 19:12:27 »

I took the deliberty to download your game Xero which in jar file size is 4089 bytes, I then decompressed it and compressed it with KZip instead. It now occupies 3951 bytes

Donald, can you post the KZip parameters you're using? I've run through the block size space and I'm simply not seeing any improvement with KZip 11/22/05.

Java Game Console Project
Last Journal Entry: 12/17/04
Offline DonaldEKnuth

Junior Member





« Reply #32 - Posted 2006-02-16 23:08:55 »

If I just type KZip I see that my version is compiled Nov 23 2005, I guess it's the same version as you use but then agai perhaps it isn't?. What I did was simply to extract the zip-file to an empty dirextory using 7Zip. Then I issued the command (while inside that directory): kzip /r xero.jar *.*

And got xero.jar with size 3951 bytes. I am not doing anything "fancy" as you can see. I tried it again just now, same result (and the resulting xero.jar works).

My 4k 2006 Entry: Sokoban4k
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Offline jbanes

JGO Coder


Projects: 1


"Java Games? Incredible! Mr. Incredible, that is!"


« Reply #33 - Posted 2006-02-16 23:52:44 »

Interesting. The version I had was the Mac version which *should* have been the same. Doesn't seem it was, though. I was able to reproduce your results on Windows, but the resulting JAR file crashes the JVM. The source JAR file works fine, so I'm not sure what that's all about. It's questionable at this point whether KZip will work for me or not. We'll see. Sad

FWIW, the latest Mac version (posted a day before the Windows version) produces files that are between 4300 and 4400 bytes, depending on the block size used. The windows version can hit 3,910 bytes with "kzip /r /b128 Xero.jar *.*".

Java Game Console Project
Last Journal Entry: 12/17/04
Offline DonaldEKnuth

Junior Member





« Reply #34 - Posted 2006-02-17 03:10:08 »

Quote
. I was able to reproduce your results on Windows, but the resulting JAR file crashes the JVM. The source JAR file works fine, so I'm not sure what that's all about.
It works great for me, I've only played it for about 10 minutes though (the repackaged JAR I created).
Quote
The windows version can hit 3,910 bytes with "kzip /r /b128 Xero.jar *.*".
Is this the version you were using when it crashes the JVM?

When does it crash the JVM? I use Windows XP Pro SP2 with all patches and JVM 1.5 from Sun.

My 4k 2006 Entry: Sokoban4k
Offline jbanes

JGO Coder


Projects: 1


"Java Games? Incredible! Mr. Incredible, that is!"


« Reply #35 - Posted 2006-02-17 04:50:31 »

Is this the version you were using when it crashes the JVM?

I tried a variety of different settings. The default, 128, 0, 1024, etc.

Quote
When does it crash the JVM? I use Windows XP Pro SP2 with all patches and JVM 1.5 from Sun.

Pretty much immediately. If I run it, the screen changes to a nearly black screen (some streaking with the desktop image, but barely visible), then *poof* it returns back to the desktop. The console dumps the standard JVM crash data and creates a log file. I was eventually able to run it, but it seemed to crash unpredictably.

Java Game Console Project
Last Journal Entry: 12/17/04
Offline DonaldEKnuth

Junior Member





« Reply #36 - Posted 2006-02-17 05:05:56 »

Not that it should matter, but does the JAR I compressed with KZip crash as well? Temporary Xero.jar (I'll take it away when you want to [after your next reply] just thought you might like to try it.)

My 4k 2006 Entry: Sokoban4k
Offline nva225

Junior Member





« Reply #37 - Posted 2006-02-17 07:07:27 »

Not that it should matter, but does the JAR I compressed with KZip crash as well? Temporary Xero.jar (I'll take it away when you want to [after your next reply] just thought you might like to try it.)

Worked for me. XP Professional here
Offline jbanes

JGO Coder


Projects: 1


"Java Games? Incredible! Mr. Incredible, that is!"


« Reply #38 - Posted 2006-02-17 20:33:14 »

Yours works. I've attached some of the files that don't work. See if they work on your machine.

(I've renamed them with the PNG extension for uploading. Just change the extension to JAR to run them.)

Java Game Console Project
Last Journal Entry: 12/17/04
Offline Alan_W

JGO Knight


Medals: 8
Projects: 3


Java tames rock!


« Reply #39 - Posted 2006-02-17 22:27:07 »

Curious. I used kzip on kanainvaders & that runs on the mac.  Maybe there's a bug in the mac's unzip implementation, which is only triggered on special conditions?

Time flies like a bird. Fruit flies like a banana.
Games published by our own members! Check 'em out!
Legends of Yore - The Casual Retro Roguelike
Offline jbanes

JGO Coder


Projects: 1


"Java Games? Incredible! Mr. Incredible, that is!"


« Reply #40 - Posted 2006-02-17 22:40:39 »

Curious. I used kzip on kanainvaders & that runs on the mac.  Maybe there's a bug in the mac's unzip implementation, which is only triggered on special conditions?

No. The files I posted were done with Windows KZip. Mac KZip just plain produces files with lousy compression. Use 7Zip instead. Wink

Java Game Console Project
Last Journal Entry: 12/17/04
Offline Alan_W

JGO Knight


Medals: 8
Projects: 3


Java tames rock!


« Reply #41 - Posted 2006-02-17 23:03:42 »

Curious. I used kzip on kanainvaders & that runs on the mac.  Maybe there's a bug in the mac's unzip implementation, which is only triggered on special conditions?

No. The files I posted were done with Windows KZip. Mac KZip just plain produces files with lousy compression. Use 7Zip instead. Wink

Eh... I didn't explain myself properly.  I use Windows as my primary development system and only swap over to the mac to find those annoying mac specific bugs.  So it was the windows kzip I was testing on the mac.  i.e. not all windows generated kzips are broken on the mac, that is at least on OS X 10.4.

Alan Smiley

Time flies like a bird. Fruit flies like a banana.
Offline jbanes

JGO Coder


Projects: 1


"Java Games? Incredible! Mr. Incredible, that is!"


« Reply #42 - Posted 2006-02-17 23:10:12 »

Eh... I didn't explain myself properly.  I use Windows as my primary development system and only swap over to the mac to find those annoying mac specific bugs.  So it was the windows kzip I was testing on the mac.  i.e. not all windows generated kzips are broken on the mac, that is at least on OS X 10.4.

Ah, sorry. I misunderstood your misunderstanding. The crash is happening on a Windows machine using the Windows KZIp.  KZip is the version "Compiled: Nov 23 2005" and the JVM is 1.5.0_06-b05 for Windows 32-bit.  I haven't tested these files on the Mac yet. Are you saying that the file(s) also crash on the Macintosh?

Java Game Console Project
Last Journal Entry: 12/17/04
Offline Alan_W

JGO Knight


Medals: 8
Projects: 3


Java tames rock!


« Reply #43 - Posted 2006-02-17 23:14:12 »

No, I was saying that I have used the 23rd Nov Windows kzip & successfully used the resulting jar on windows & the mac.
I had misunderstood your previous post through.  I thought you were saying that kzip worked on windows, but not the mac, but see that the problem is on the windows machine.  Maybe there's a bug in kzip then, that can produced corrupted jars, but only in certain circumstances?

Anyway, enough from me, since I'm adding to the confusion & not solving anything Grin

Time flies like a bird. Fruit flies like a banana.
Offline DonaldEKnuth

Junior Member





« Reply #44 - Posted 2006-02-18 02:31:00 »

Quote
Yours works. I've attached some of the files that don't work. See if they work on your machine.
Its odd that my version works since we seem to be using the same version of KZip (maybe the compile time wasn't changed between two updates, highly unlikely as it's most certainly automated but anyway). I'm at my girlfriend now, but should I take my JAR-version of your game away tomorrow when I get home? (Just say the word and it's gone.) Smiley

Both of your versions of Xero works fine on her old computer. altough I did only play each version for about 2 minutes. She has Windows XP SP2 all patches and Sun J2RE 1.4.1. Are you sure it's not related to your computer setup somewhat?

My 4k 2006 Entry: Sokoban4k
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