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  OGL pipeline and window decoration offset  (Read 1881 times)
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Offline Ask_Hjorth_Larsen

Junior Member




Java games rock!


« Posted 2005-12-25 22:22:17 »

So, I have recently installed ubuntu linux, and everything seems to work quite well, lately also the radeon mobility 9700 display drivers.

I can now enable the OGL pipeline, and the performance is excellent. However there is one problem.

The stuff displayed within windows is NOT displaced by the winow decorations (EDIT: I can check this by setting windows undecorated, in which case the error vanishes). Thus, the top button of my interface appears mostly hidden behind the window decorations. Evidently this must be a purely graphical error (indeed it only occurs when the pipeline is enabled), because the mouse interacts with the GUI elements as if they were aligned correctly, i.e. it activates the button when I click below the place in which it appears.

This is with Mustang 1.6.0-rc-b64.

I also tried with 1.5.0_06-b05, and the same problem was present (along with another problem which caused button backgrounds to appear black).

So, erhm, what's going on?

On another note, I'm going away tomorrow for around a week, but will be glad to read any answers at that time.
Offline campbell

Junior Member




Java games rock!


« Reply #1 - Posted 2005-12-27 03:12:38 »

This is a known bug in ATI's Linux drivers, and has been there forever.  We filed a bug report with ATI well over a year ago and yet they haven't fixed it.  It's very unfortunate that they haven't fixed it yet since it means that Swing apps are unusable on ATI boards on Linux with the OGL pipeline enabled.  I've tried lobbying them to fix it, but if you want to help us get Java apps working better on ATI's drivers, please get involved and report this issue to ATI.

(In general, if you see something that looks like a driver bug, please report it to Sun *and* make some noise to ATI as well.  Part of the problem with these driver bugs is that while ATI recognizes them as bugs, they don't always assign them the highest priority.  Usually, Java developers will report these bugs to us, and in turn we file a report with ATI, or Nvidia, or whatever.  Since they don't often hear directly from the Java developers and end-users, it's tough for them to understand that this impacts potentially millions of people, as opposed to "just" some small bug that Sun found in their testing...)

Thanks,
Chris
Offline Linuxhippy

Senior Member


Medals: 1


Java games rock!


« Reply #2 - Posted 2005-12-27 08:13:14 »

The problem with ATI is that its so hard to get in touch with them.
You have to register, request support and and and ... I never managed to "report" a  bug, just sent my reports to support which did not know what to do with it.
Any suggestions howto reach the people who are responsible for development?

For NVidia-drivers its quite easy, just a mail to linux-bugs@nvidia.com and you can at least communicate with developers and most time they are quite helpful if this is a bug they are willed to fix.
Of course I also received answers which told me more or less to forget about it since they are not interrested to fix it (was the case when the Java2d-OpenGL pipeline was new and they thought this is a unimpotrant piece of software).

lg Clemens
Games published by our own members! Check 'em out!
Legends of Yore - The Casual Retro Roguelike
Offline campbell

Junior Member




Java games rock!


« Reply #3 - Posted 2005-12-27 18:13:11 »

The problem with ATI is that its so hard to get in touch with them.
You have to register, request support and and and ... I never managed to "report" a  bug, just sent my reports to support which did not know what to do with it.
Any suggestions howto reach the people who are responsible for development?

Yeah, no kidding.  By comparison, our relationship with Nvidia is so much more smooth and productive (they have actual bug databases, and simple email aliases like the one you mentioned).  ATI has some cryptic URLs for reporting driver issues, but I've found that these to be black holes in the past:
https://support.ati.com/ics/support/default.asp?deptID=894&task=knowledge&questionID=737-1713

I've had better luck talking directly with their Developer Relations team (devrel@ati.com) and submitting bugs via email (their lack of a bug tracking system still frustrates me to no end).  The above address is intended for developers, not "end users", but seeing as how Sun has been much more open in our development of Mustang, I think it's fair to say that all of you who browse these forums are contributing in some way to Mustang.  So I'd say go ahead and help us report those driver issues directly to ATI via the devrel@ati.com alias.  If they feel otherwise, they can direct us to a more appropriate entrypoint.

Going forward I think it would be great to see more community participation in this area.  So many of you have reported issues with things like the OGL and D3D pipelines in Mustang via these forums, and that's great.  But I know that not many people have the time or patience to participate in hacking (and building) Mustang source code.  There are other ways to get involved, however, such as coming up with small reproducible testcases (sometimes Java, sometimes native) to help the various driver teams track down these bugs.  Much of our time at work is spent boiling things down to a small testcase that we can submit to say Nvidia.  If one of these driver bugs is especially problematic for you, we'd appreciate any help you can provide along these lines.

Thanks,
Chris
Offline Spasi
« Reply #4 - Posted 2005-12-27 22:55:24 »

My experience has been the same, personally contacting a developer inside either company works better. ATI's devrel could be used too I guess.

My contacts in both companies have been very friendly and helpful, but I'd like to point out that I've never had any issue with ATI's. I always get decent explanations, they've already accepted Java+LWJGL test cases and I'm always informed about fixes of bugs I've reported and when they'd become available.
Offline Anon666

Junior Member




aka Abuse/AbU5e/TehJumpingJawa


« Reply #5 - Posted 2005-12-28 00:21:10 »

I'm curious - why do these issues crop up only for Java apps?

Surely every single non-Java game (and indeed application!) reliant on OGL should suffer from the exact same problems?

I find it hard to believe every other non-java developer in the world has indepedently written work-arounds for these issues, and never informed the manufacturers (be it ATI or NVidia) of the driver bugs?
Offline swpalmer

JGO Coder




Where's the Kaboom?


« Reply #6 - Posted 2005-12-28 01:09:14 »

I'm curious - why do these issues crop up only for Java apps?

Surely every single non-Java game (and indeed application!) reliant on OGL should suffer from the exact same problems?

I find it hard to believe every other non-java developer in the world has indepedently written work-arounds for these issues, and never informed the manufacturers (be it ATI or NVidia) of the driver bugs?

Because nobody else uses Linux for anything other than a server Smiley
Client-side stuff that fails on Linux is likely a big "who cares?" issue for companies like ATI.  Because, let's face it.. the only people running Linux as their desktop are a very small percentage of nerds.

Offline Linuxhippy

Senior Member


Medals: 1


Java games rock!


« Reply #7 - Posted 2005-12-28 07:34:40 »

Because nobody else uses Linux for anything other than a server Smiley
Client-side stuff that fails on Linux is likely a big "who cares?" issue for companies like ATI.  Because, let's face it.. the only people running Linux as their desktop are a very small percentage of nerds.

Hey man I run Linux on my desktop since I like what the window-managers provide me and I need the powerful shell.

Well on the other side they provide OpenGL accalerated drivers for Linux, but it looks like its a must-have if you want to sell graphic cards today. If you read forums people having tons of problems geting their ati drivers running.
However I fully understand ATI since they invest into their Linux drivers proportional what they earn with linux gamers, the same with OpenGL/D3D. D3D has simply higher priority.

Its the same with NVidia when they worked on their 8xxx series of drivers, for windows second linux with linux specific fixes and features coming last. However they managed to provide quite stable working drivers after some time with good RENDER accaleration and Composite support, especially when people complained that the last few releases were crap .

lg Clemens
Offline Spasi
« Reply #8 - Posted 2005-12-28 15:22:47 »

why do these issues crop up only for Java apps?

I've never reported (or had) any Java specific issues.

As for Linux + ATI drivers, it's a tough relationship to say the least. In general again, nothing to do with Java.
Offline swpalmer

JGO Coder




Where's the Kaboom?


« Reply #9 - Posted 2005-12-28 19:36:36 »

Hey man I run Linux on my desktop since I like what the window-managers provide me and I need the powerful shell.

Nerd.

Smiley

Games published by our own members! Check 'em out!
Legends of Yore - The Casual Retro Roguelike
Offline Ask_Hjorth_Larsen

Junior Member




Java games rock!


« Reply #10 - Posted 2006-01-02 18:52:51 »

Okay, back from vacation. Thanks for all the answers, I will definitely report this to ATI. It is good to see such precise and qualified responses, by the way.

As for the linux discussion I, like LinuxHippy, prefer Linux due to the superior quality of window managers (IMO) and shell (obviously). I also use windows, but only because most game-related stuff cannot be run from linux.

As for windows, by the way, I haven't yet managed to get hold of sufficiently good drivers to even enable the OGL pipeline. ATI refers to the vendor of the computer for windows mobility drivers (yet they did supply the above mentioned linux driver), and the vendor supplies a presumably somewhat toothless driver, referring to the "Omega" drivers for better performance. Yet neither driver appears to support the pipeline, and this is another discussion.
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