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  New j4k contest anytime soon?  (Read 38952 times)
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Offline Morre

JGO Knight


Medals: 2
Projects: 10


I'm Dragonene on IRC.


« Posted 2005-11-09 19:04:09 »

Hi,
just wondering about plans for a new j4k contest? Java unlimited says this november, which is, well, now Smiley

Offline oNyx

JGO Coder


Medals: 1


pixels! :x


« Reply #1 - Posted 2005-11-09 19:40:55 »

The usual time span for j4k is (end of) dec to (start of) feb.

Well, it has been like that in the past Smiley

弾幕 ☆ @mahonnaiseblog
Offline Morre

JGO Knight


Medals: 2
Projects: 10


I'm Dragonene on IRC.


« Reply #2 - Posted 2005-11-09 19:50:28 »

I see, excellent Smiley

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Offline kevglass

JGO Kernel


Medals: 85
Projects: 22


Coder, Trainee Pixel Artist, Game Reviewer


« Reply #3 - Posted 2005-11-09 20:08:10 »

Woogley has mentioned on the other forums that it will start again this year on the 1st of Dec.

Kev

Offline oNyx

JGO Coder


Medals: 1


pixels! :x


« Reply #4 - Posted 2005-11-09 21:18:11 »

Oh and this time we should use some kind of quickinfo sheet... something like this Wink

弾幕 ☆ @mahonnaiseblog
Offline g666

Junior Member





« Reply #5 - Posted 2005-11-09 22:23:10 »

Can you enter more than 1 game?

desperately seeking sanity
Offline oNyx

JGO Coder


Medals: 1


pixels! :x


« Reply #6 - Posted 2005-11-09 22:37:10 »

Can you enter more than 1 game?

Sure.

http://javaunlimited.net/games/java4k_2005.php

Count the games from kev Wink

弾幕 ☆ @mahonnaiseblog
Offline nonnus29

Senior Member




Giving Java a second chance after ludumdare fiasco


« Reply #7 - Posted 2005-11-10 00:37:34 »

I see, excellent Smiley

Yes, excellent indeed; I started on my new software renderer last week. 

Muwhahaha!!!!

4k is going to be TIGHT though.... (as if it's wasn't anyway)  Wink
Offline woogley
« Reply #8 - Posted 2005-11-10 05:50:10 »

the official launch date, as mentioned by Kev, is December 1st, 2005. The contest will run until February 28th, 2006. Results will be announced in the beginning of March. More info will come in the official thread in the coming weeks.
Offline Alan_W

JGO Knight


Medals: 8
Projects: 3


Java tames rock!


« Reply #9 - Posted 2005-11-10 18:42:17 »

1st December - Great stuff.  Can't wait

::Wonders what nonnus29's software renderer is looking like::
::Glances at own not-ready-yet raycasting code::

Alan Grin

Time flies like a bird. Fruit flies like a banana.
Games published by our own members! Check 'em out!
Legends of Yore - The Casual Retro Roguelike
Offline nonnus29

Senior Member




Giving Java a second chance after ludumdare fiasco


« Reply #10 - Posted 2005-11-11 01:59:19 »

1st December - Great stuff.  Can't wait

::Wonders what nonnus29's software renderer is looking like::
::Glances at own not-ready-yet raycasting code::

Alan Grin

I'm going for polygon rasterization again this time.  Only instead of using Graphics.fillPolygon() as I did in Combat4k, I've implemented my own polygon rasterization routine.  The main problem with using fillPolygon() was z-ordering; I had to sort my polygons.  Also, Color and shading were a problem.  So I'm hopeful I can get flat shading and z buffering and still have room for something game-like.

Offline Anon666

Junior Member




aka Abuse/AbU5e/TehJumpingJawa


« Reply #11 - Posted 2005-11-12 02:42:53 »

I was tempted to go with a voxel engine - with fillRect being hardware accelerated an' all  - The code for such an engine would be tiny!

hmmmmm, VoxelWorms4K !  Roll Eyes

Or maybe VoxelFlightSim4K  Grin
Offline Alan_W

JGO Knight


Medals: 8
Projects: 3


Java tames rock!


« Reply #12 - Posted 2005-11-13 20:10:34 »

@nonnus29 I D/L'd Combat4k Smiley  I can see that Z-buffered polygons would help and hope that rasteriser fits in the available space.

@Anon666 Voxels look good to me.  ::Thinks about a voxel space fighter game::

My raycaster fits in 4k!  I reckon Kev's going to have to pull out all the stops to beat it  Grin

Alan

Time flies like a bird. Fruit flies like a banana.
Offline kevglass

JGO Kernel


Medals: 85
Projects: 22


Coder, Trainee Pixel Artist, Game Reviewer


« Reply #13 - Posted 2005-11-13 20:26:56 »

I don't think I'm going to come close this year! Smiley

Remember tho - its about the game, not just the technology!

Kev

Offline Alan_W

JGO Knight


Medals: 8
Projects: 3


Java tames rock!


« Reply #14 - Posted 2005-11-14 08:52:06 »

I don't think I'm going to come close this year! Smiley

Ah, modest too.  Last years T4x1 & Balls4k were really good.  It helps that Crazy Taxi on PS2 is one of my favourites.

Quote
Remember tho - its about the game, not just the technology!

I know Smiley

Alan

Time flies like a bird. Fruit flies like a banana.
Offline Markus_Persson

JGO Wizard


Medals: 12
Projects: 19


Mojang Specifications


« Reply #15 - Posted 2005-11-14 16:10:03 »

Remember tho - its about the game, not just the technology!

Not for me! :-D

Of course, that'll probably end up costing me the first place again, but that doesn't really matter. =)

Play Minecraft!
Offline hvor2

Junior Member




Beyond mind, there is an awareness...


« Reply #16 - Posted 2005-11-14 23:35:03 »

Is there any chance to have another type of contest, that will be tematic limited for example, and not by size? I remember that first time I saw Java 4k, 16k ... contest I had impression that Java is not good to make bigger, more serious games. Unexistence of bigger contest may send a  wrong message about Java. Now  of course, I don't think so, but that was my first tought... So, my question is - why not bigger contest (Java can handle it)? Or I am just not aware of any?

Offline oNyx

JGO Coder


Medals: 1


pixels! :x


« Reply #17 - Posted 2005-11-15 00:49:02 »

Those extreme filesize limitations ensure that its a coding competition. It also ensures that you just cant do too much and you also cant gain anything from having a good artist etc. The limitation is totally artificial Smiley

And java can of course handle games with tons of content. The problem is that that kind of games take way more time to create whereas 4k takes a couple of days in the worst case (iirc kev made some of his entries in less than 4h).

Well, its pretty tough to cram something game like into 4k... and thats all the contest is about Wink

弾幕 ☆ @mahonnaiseblog
Offline nonnus29

Senior Member




Giving Java a second chance after ludumdare fiasco


« Reply #18 - Posted 2005-11-15 01:34:46 »

Unexistence of bigger contest may send a  wrong message about Java. Now  of course, I don't think so, but that was my first tought... So, my question is - why not bigger contest (Java can handle it)? Or I am just not aware of any?

The 4k and 16k contests aren't about sending a message, they're about fun, for us the participants. And saying 'gee, how did he/she fit THAT into 4k!?!?! 

There are plenty of other open ended contests around (google of 'omg cup' or check out the contest gamedev just had).  Participate in the contests you like, if you want a different contest, then organize it.
Offline Alan_W

JGO Knight


Medals: 8
Projects: 3


Java tames rock!


« Reply #19 - Posted 2005-11-15 09:06:23 »

Bigger contest? It's the time factor really.  It also depends on how much code reuse you can do.  I wrote SharpShooter16k in about a week, but that was only because I ripped the modelling and collision detection system (greatly simplified of course) from the more complex Storm the Castle game.   Starting from scratch with no experience would have taken months.  I would like to do a bigger game with better graphics (my graphics really suck), but am so pushed for time these days.  Embarrassed

Time flies like a bird. Fruit flies like a banana.
Offline hvor2

Junior Member




Beyond mind, there is an awareness...


« Reply #20 - Posted 2005-11-15 09:17:41 »

Those extreme filesize limitations ensure that its a coding competition. It also ensures that you just cant do too much and you also cant gain anything from having a good artist etc. The limitation is totally artificial Smiley
... its pretty tough to cram something game like into 4k... and thats all the contest is about Wink
Of course, that is the other side of the story. I like that explanation very much - good art will not help you if you don't know how to code  Smiley
And I wasn't talking AGAINST j4k contest, I just wanted to know if there is "bigger" contest (not in value but in size) out there.

Offline Markus_Persson

JGO Wizard


Medals: 12
Projects: 19


Mojang Specifications


« Reply #21 - Posted 2005-11-15 10:32:48 »

It's possible to make a good game in 4k, but it takes a lot of trickery.

In 16k with an opengl binding, it gets easier, but starts to take a lot of time.

Beyond that, I could just make a proper game instead. (And I am!)

Play Minecraft!
Offline oNyx

JGO Coder


Medals: 1


pixels! :x


« Reply #22 - Posted 2005-11-15 11:53:44 »

>I just wanted to know if there is "bigger" contest

Sure. There are like a handfull compos each year. Eg this one:
http://idevgames.com/index.php/contest/omg_info/omg_cup_2005

If you ever intend to participate in one of the bigger ones be sure to read the rules *very* carefully. Some are kinda dodgy... well, when in doubt you can just discuss it here Wink

弾幕 ☆ @mahonnaiseblog
Offline nonnus29

Senior Member




Giving Java a second chance after ludumdare fiasco


« Reply #23 - Posted 2005-11-16 18:52:25 »

Quote
I would like to do a bigger game with better graphics (my graphics really suck), but am so pushed for time these days.

This is another reason I like the 4k; the expectation for gfx is very low so anything you can do is exceptional.  You must be an artist or know one to develope a game with no size restrictions that will impress anyone.

Offline g666

Junior Member





« Reply #24 - Posted 2005-11-20 16:54:51 »

Remember tho - its about the game, not just the technology!

Not for me! :-D

Of course, that'll probably end up costing me the first place again, but that doesn't really matter. =)

who did when last years contest?

desperately seeking sanity
Offline Alan_W

JGO Knight


Medals: 8
Projects: 3


Java tames rock!


« Reply #25 - Posted 2005-11-20 20:57:51 »

who did when last years contest?

Last Years results

Time flies like a bird. Fruit flies like a banana.
Offline Markus_Persson

JGO Wizard


Medals: 12
Projects: 19


Mojang Specifications


« Reply #26 - Posted 2005-11-21 09:47:02 »

Huh? I thought that tetris thing won?

If that's the official results, then I'm more than happy. =D
Kev did a really nice job with T4XI.

Play Minecraft!
Offline jbanes

JGO Coder


Projects: 1


"Java Games? Incredible! Mr. Incredible, that is!"


« Reply #27 - Posted 2005-11-21 16:39:03 »

Quote
Huh? I thought that tetris thing won?

That's probably because you were looking at the name-sorted  "Totals" list rather than the score-sorted "Winners" list. 4K-Tris comes first in name-sorted order. Smiley

Also, there were a few hiccups in scoring last year, with the early scores reflecting oddities like a double count for sound and music, when it should have gotten one or the other. It was eventually sorted out.

Still, we'll need to rethink scoring this year to ensure that it's a little less random. Each judge went into the scoring with a different idea of how it should work (regardless of how we all tried to get it to work), making the scores run all over the board. We'll need to discuss how we can improve things. T4xi was still the unquestionable winner, however. Smiley

Java Game Console Project
Last Journal Entry: 12/17/04
Offline nonnus29

Senior Member




Giving Java a second chance after ludumdare fiasco


« Reply #28 - Posted 2005-11-21 18:27:10 »

Agreed.  There were ALOT of problems last year; the rules and judging criteria were undecided until after the contest was over.

After reviewing last years rules I'd like to see:

1)  jdk 1.5 required,  pack200 is just too good

2)  all entries must be self executing jars; pak200 makes this much less painful

3)  No matter what, somebody set the rules in stone soon so there's not as much confusion

Number 3 is hard because no one actually owns this thing, unless it's jbanes?
Offline jbanes

JGO Coder


Projects: 1


"Java Games? Incredible! Mr. Incredible, that is!"


« Reply #29 - Posted 2005-11-21 18:42:23 »

After reviewing last years rules I'd like to see:

1)  jdk 1.5 required,  pack200 is just too good

I agree on 1.5 just because it's the mainstream version at the moment. However, I believe your next requirement defeats the availability of pack200.

2)  all entries must be self executing jars; pak200 makes this much less painful

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Pack200 is only for Webstart, isn't it? Last time I did tests, I found that Pack200 JAR files were no longer directly executable. Instead, the file had to be unpacked prior to execution. Thus Pack200ed files really can't count as being under the 4k limit.

3)  No matter what, somebody set the rules in stone soon so there's not as much confusion

Number 3 is hard because no one actually owns this thing, unless it's jbanes?

I'm just a messanger. The real "owner" of the contest has been Mlk. Now the rules were decided by committee last time, but Mlk's decisions were deferred to as the final say. Smiley

Java Game Console Project
Last Journal Entry: 12/17/04
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