Java-Gaming.org    
Featured games (81)
games approved by the League of Dukes
Games in Showcase (498)
Games in Android Showcase (115)
games submitted by our members
Games in WIP (563)
games currently in development
News: Read the Java Gaming Resources, or peek at the official Java tutorials
 
    Home     Help   Search   Login   Register   
Pages: [1]
  ignore  |  Print  
  newbie:what is the differece between java3d  (Read 2562 times)
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Offline wqhhust

Innocent Bystander




Java games rock!


« Posted 2003-05-24 01:39:41 »

   java3d also wraps opengl,is there any overlap between them,and if so,what is the difference between them. Because the java3d is surported by sun ,and can be a standard which will give java3d a promise future.And  how LWJGL positions itself in the java opengl world?
Offline bedelf

Junior Member




Are you suggesting coconuts migrate?


« Reply #1 - Posted 2003-05-24 01:45:55 »

From what I've seen, Java3D is bloated and obtuse. I think they also use other stuff besides OpenGL? Someone correct me on that one if I'm wrong.

LWJGL is just a lightweight wrapper around opengl and not much more.

Please excuse any wrong terminology here. Tongue

I like LWJGL, I just suck and don't know what I'm doing on the rendering side. The last few days of experimentation proves that much. I have a super-fast Java2D engine I wrote though, for all the good it does me. Smiley

Edit: http://java-game-lib.sourceforge.net/

That page can explain pretty well it's uses/intents/purposes/whatever.
Offline Matzon

JGO Knight


Medals: 19
Projects: 1


I'm gonna wring your pants!


« Reply #2 - Posted 2003-05-24 08:48:14 »

Quote
LWJGL is just a lightweight wrapper around opengl and not much more.
EEEEH <-- high pitched. Wrong. Smiley  LWJGL is much more. It provides a windowing mechnism, OpenGL, OpenAL (Audio), Math and Input support (mouse/keyboard/controllers(joystick/gamepads))

Games published by our own members! Check 'em out!
Legends of Yore - The Casual Retro Roguelike
Offline Orangy Tang

JGO Kernel


Medals: 56
Projects: 11


Monkey for a head


« Reply #3 - Posted 2003-05-24 08:54:56 »

Quote
   java3d also wraps opengl


Nope. A wrapper is just a thin layer ontop of an existing system. While J3d uses openGL (or DirectX) theres no way to call GL commands directly. GL is an immediate mode API - much like j2d, you say 'draw this here' and it does. J3d requires you to build a scenegraph of your world, and then you leave all the lowlevel rendering details up to it (hopefully leaving it to handle the low level optimisations as it goes about it, how this works in practice is debatable).

[ TriangularPixels.com - Play Growth Spurt, Rescue Squad and Snowman Village ] [ Rebirth - game resource library ]
Offline princec

JGO Kernel


Medals: 379
Projects: 3
Exp: 16 years


Eh? Who? What? ... Me?


« Reply #4 - Posted 2003-05-24 09:35:49 »

There's talk of an immediate mode API in J3D isn't there too?

No matter. They ain't got the nifty OpenAL support and input stuff. And it's slower Tongue

Cas Smiley

Offline Herkules

Senior Member




Friendly fire isn't friendly!


« Reply #5 - Posted 2003-05-24 10:11:18 »

Quote
From what I've seen, Java3D is bloated and obtuse.


What you mean is powerful and feature-rich.

Quote

java3d also wraps opengl


Nope. Java3D contains a wrapper of a renderer. Either OpenGL or Direct3D. So the wrapper is one part of it and available as Java3Ds immediate mode. It does not reflect each OpenGL call as a pure OGL wrapper does, but is tailored to be renderer independent and focused on the needs of the scenegraph engine.

Quote

And it's slower


... which is not proven yet, for no comparable engine for LWJGL exists. The scenegraph prototype for LWJGL is WAY slower than Java3D.

HARDCODE    --     DRTS/FlyingGuns/JPilot/JXInput  --    skype me: joerg.plewe
Offline bedelf

Junior Member




Are you suggesting coconuts migrate?


« Reply #6 - Posted 2003-05-24 17:31:25 »

Just personal experience. The last time I tried to use java3d was not pretty, I pretty much hated it.

But we all know how much I know about shit. Tongue

As far as LWJGL being more then opengl etc I guess I was just assuming that part, it was late and I was just thinking of the graphics portion. Let's say I just woke up and I'm still tired.

:/

Edit: please excuse me if i've been really pissy on here lately. My last project really didn't work out how I wanted and I made the decision to move to opengl and have to deal with alot harder stuff (god I just want to make a game!). Well, I guess i'm not exactly being a very graceful learner Tongue I feel like I haven't coded a day in my life all over again.
Offline Vrml_Java_Animator

Senior Newbie




Web Animation with VRML, &nbsp;Java3d &amp; pure Java


« Reply #7 - Posted 2003-05-25 19:29:19 »

Quote
 
[size=2]
|
|  Because Java3d is surported by Sun ,
|  and can be a standard
| it will give java3d a promising  future.
|
| And  how does LWJGL position itself in the java opengl world ?
|
|   [ edited  -- PF ]
 [/size]


Sun's support is important, I agree with you there.

Sun does support Java3d, I'm not sure but I think Sun is a larger organization and has written more software than the little
 ----  LWJGL group.

Quote

[size=2]
|
| From what I've seen, Java3D is bloated and obtuse.
|
|  I think they also use other stuff besides OpenGL? ...
|
| Please excuse any wrong terminology here. Tongue
|
| I like LWJGL, I just suck and don't know what I'm doing
| on the rendering side.
|
| The last few days of experimentation proves that much.
|
| I have a super-fast Java2D engine I wrote though,
| for all the good it does me. Smiley
|
|     http://java-game-lib.sourceforge.net
|
| That page can explain pretty well it's uses/intents/purposes/whatever.
|
[/size]


 People have created some good 3d visualization projects with Java3d.

  In the hands of a capable programmer, success is definately possible.

  I cannot really comment on what you've seen or what is or is not
"bloated and obtuse" by your standards.

 To get high performance and highly flexibility in a 3d graphics system
I think you probably have to accept some complexity.

  And besides, it helps keep out the riff-raff   ( that was meant to be funny ).

 You said -- I think -- that you suck and you like LWJGL ... ?

 Um, I don't know, people that don't suck can do well with Java3d.

 Java3d is kind of "future proof", it supports both OpenGL and DirectX
so if sometime in the future DirectX is rendering faster on some machines
 --( and in particular on your machine or anyone's machine using your software )--
you can take advantage of  "whatever works best"
and you program  works at the fastest possible speed.

 Portablity is Good, Java is Good.

  Java & Java3d gives you portability across OS-es, CPU-s & rendering layers ( not all, and yes, it is less than perfect ).

 Java3d gives you a "higher level" API than OpenGL.
 
  You can probably get a 3d system written faster with Java3d :
if you have the skills, time, money, energy and stamina you
can probably get more perforamce if you write-from-scratch-with-OpenGL.

 Its a trade off --- everything  --  everything is  a trade-off.

 $100 will give you an amazing graphics card.

 With an amazing $100 graphics card,

 ...  maybe the Java3d implementation is fast enough.


 If you want to spend 1,000 hours to get 10% more performance,

 
   than god bless you, good luck, you have my admiration.

   I'm lazy and want to get projects done faster, so I use Java3d.

Quote

[size=2]
|
| Just personal experience.
|
| The last time I tried to use java3d was not pretty, I pretty much hated it.
|
| But we all know how much I know about shit. Tongue    ...
|
|  please excuse me if i've been really pissy on here lately.
|
| My last project really didn't work out how I wanted and
| I made the decision to move to opengl and have to deal
| with alot harder stuff
|
|   ( god I just want to make a game !  ).
|
| Well, I guess i'm not exactly being a very graceful learner Tongue
|
| I feel like I haven't coded a day in my life all over again.
|
[/size]


[size=6] 3d animation can be very easy with Java3d.  
[/size]
 
  Given your brief statement it is not possible to identify the problem

  People have succeded with Java3d, it does take some time & effort.

  But there are lots of examples and demos available for free,
so it's remakably easy to try some things out, find a demo that you like,
and try teaking it, making it a little better.

  Use the tools & resources of the Java3d community including the
tools Sun developed for you:

  The Sun VRML Loaders, the Sun Java3d Scenegraph Editor & FlyThrough.

   Combining VRML and Java with both Java3d using Sun's Loaders
and using VRML with Java 1.1 engines ( like Shout3d.com's rather than Java3d )

 makes getting started fast & easy, and gives you many options,
and lets you separate the programming tasks from the model building.

It's a good programming style to separate your data from your logic :

  -- in this case the geometry of your model from the controling programs.

 Nasa uses Java3d, VRML, and the Sun VRML Loaders for displaying 3d on the web.

 You can do it too.

| A JavaScript Companion to Java3D
| ------------------------------------------
|
| Send email to Patti.Koenig@jpl.nasa.gov
|
| with any questions you may have. ...
|
|   VRML using vrml97.jar  [ view Nasa's Mars "Red Rover" Robotic Lander ]
|  ---------------------------
|
http://fastscript3d.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery.html  

 Ok, suppose you want to a 3d animation of

 the Moon orbiting the Earth while
the Earth is spinning ( on a 22 degree titls )  and orbiting
the Sun, and you want the earth to have an image texture map.

 Hard or easy ?

  Easy :

 Easy 3d with Java3d and or Shout3d.com's engine with VRML
 ------------------------------------------------------------------------
 http://www.frontiernet.net/~imaging/terrain_rendering.html
http://www.frontiernet.net/~imaging/shout3d/models/planetary_earth_moon.wrl

 Same data file works with Java3d or Shout3d.com's engine.

  How about a simpler "HelloWorld" for VRML & 3d.

   Web3d.org has one, and it works with Java3d with Sun's Loaders:

   The HelloWorld.wrl  VRML file shows the earth with a text string "Hello".

Sun's VRML Loaders working, Web3d.org's "HelloWorld.wrl" Sample file
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.frontiernet.net/~imaging/vrml_loaders_working.html

http://www.web3d.org/TaskGroups/x3d/translation/examples/HelloWorld.wrl

---- "HelloWorld".wrl"  VRML data file follows  ( it's readable ! )

 [size=1]
1  
2  
3  
4  
5  
6  
7  
8  
9  
10  
11  
12  
13  
14  
15  
16  
17  
18  
19  
20  
21  
22  
23  
24  
25  
26  
27  
28  
29  
30  
31  
32  
33  
34  
35  
36  
37  
38  
39  
40  
41  
42  
43  
44  
45  
46  
47  
48  
49  
50  
51  
52  
53  
54  
55  
56  
57  
58  
59  
60  
#VRML V2.0 utf8
# X3D-to-VRML-97 XSL translation autogenerated by X3dToVrml97.xsl
# http://www.web3D.org/TaskGroups/x3d/translation/X3dToVrml97.xsl

# [X3D] VRML V3.0 utf8
# [X3D] profile=Immersive

# [head]
# [meta] filename: HelloWorld.x3d
# [meta] description: Simple X3D example
# [meta] created: 30 October 2000
# [meta] revised: 6 March 2003
# [meta] author: Don Brutzman
# [meta] url: http://www.web3d.org/TaskGroups/x3d/translation/examples/HelloWorld.x3d
# [meta] generator: X3D-Edit, http://www.web3d.org/TaskGroups/x3d/translation/README.X3D-Edit.html
# [Scene]

# Example scene to illustrate X3D tags and attributes.
Group {
  children [
      Viewpoint {
        description "hello, world!"
        orientation 0 1 0 1.57
        position 6 -1 0
      }
      NavigationInfo {
        type [ "EXAMINE" "ANY"  ]
      }
      Shape {
        geometry Sphere {
        }
        appearance Appearance {
          texture ImageTexture {
            url [ "earth-topo.png"
"earth-topo-small.gif"
"http://www.web3d.org/TaskGroups/x3d/translation/examples/earth-topo.png"
"http://www.web3d.org/TaskGroups/x3d/translation/examples/earth-topo-small.gif" ]
          }
        }
      }
      Transform {
        rotation 0 1 0 1.57
        translation 0 -2 1.25
        children [
            Shape {
              geometry Text {
                string [ "Hello" "world!" ]
              }
              appearance Appearance {
                material Material {
                  diffuseColor 0.1 0.5 1
                }
              }
            }
         ]
      }
   ]
}
 
 
[/size]

 How do you do it:

  Load it & go.

 -- Paul, Java Developer & Web Animator.
-----------------------------------------------
Imaging the Imagined: Modeling with Math & a Keyboard


 PS:  If you want to post about ...   "Java3d"   at the    java-gaming.org  site,
 -----  you may want to post to the "Java3d"   forum of  java-gaming.org  ;^)

 PPS:  There are sample Java3d games available ... just ask ... in the proper forum.


Imaging the Imagined: Modeling with VRML, Java & Math
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Offline swpalmer

JGO Coder


Exp: 12 years


Where's the Kaboom?


« Reply #8 - Posted 2003-05-25 21:25:27 »

Oh crap, now he's infected this thread too...

Offline Vrml_Java_Animator

Senior Newbie




Web Animation with VRML, &nbsp;Java3d &amp; pure Java


« Reply #9 - Posted 2003-05-25 21:52:28 »

Quote

[size=3]
|
| Oh crap, now he's infected this thread too...
| [/size]

[size=4]
Don't you hate it when people post off-topic posts ?

Pathetic Pathological liars from the LWJGL group upset about the

inadequacies, flaws, flukes and failures of their LWJGL project

 have been posting trolling posts to the Java3d forum,


          --- and no "on-topic" posts ---

Pathetic Pathological lies from losers upset about their own failures.

 Sad, Sad, very Sad.

 Please note my post in this "java3d" thread was about "java3d"

 On topic, polite & proper:  an example the Pathetic Pathological Liars should learn from.

-- Paul, Java Developer & Web Animator
----------------------------------------------
Imaging the Imagined: Modeling with Math & a Keyboard

[/size]


Imaging the Imagined: Modeling with VRML, Java & Math
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Games published by our own members! Check 'em out!
Legends of Yore - The Casual Retro Roguelike
Offline bedelf

Junior Member




Are you suggesting coconuts migrate?


« Reply #10 - Posted 2003-05-25 22:23:03 »

Is that a Java3D troll? If you absolutly feel the need to be a jackass, do it in a small font like I do.

Please crawl back under a bridge, thanks.
Offline Vrml_Java_Animator

Senior Newbie




Web Animation with VRML, &nbsp;Java3d &amp; pure Java


« Reply #11 - Posted 2003-05-25 22:38:52 »

The simple unpleasant fact is LWJGL fan-boys have been trolling
in the Java3d forum and if you are a reasonable person
I am asking you politely ... please ask them to stop.

Thank-you.

They have been posting insults & off-topic posts to

JavaGraming.org Forum Java Game Developement / Java3d /

     Topic:  "  How to change a obj file  ? "

Which you can read via this URL:

http://www.JavaGaming.org/cgi-bin/JGOForums/YaBB.cgi?board=3D;action=display;num=1053785030

Quote
[size=2]
|
| Is that a Java3D troll?
|
[/size]


 No.

 I do use Java3d, I did reply in this thread about  __ Java3d __

 My first post was on topic to this thread topic ( __ Java3d __ )  

 My second post was a reply to odd an insult to me.

  My third post is in reply to you.

 Please have a pleasant evening and happy holiday tomorrow.
   
       ( in the US Monday is a Holiday )

-- Paul, Java Developer & Web Animator
----------------------------------------------
Imaging the Imagined: Modeling with Math & a Keyboard
 


Imaging the Imagined: Modeling with VRML, Java & Math
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Offline erikd

JGO Ninja


Medals: 16
Projects: 4
Exp: 14 years


Maximumisness


« Reply #12 - Posted 2003-05-26 06:05:16 »

I must admit that Vrml_Java_Animator's post was just trying to be helpful this time, if only a little verbose.
Can't we at least just try to get along or if we can't just ignore the people we dislike? Just bitching at eachother serves no purpose as this is getting seriously nasty.  

Erik Embarrassed

Offline Matzon

JGO Knight


Medals: 19
Projects: 1


I'm gonna wring your pants!


« Reply #13 - Posted 2003-05-26 07:30:33 »

Quote
Can't we at least just try to get along or if we can't just ignore the people we dislike?
See: killfilter  Grin

Quote
Just bitching at eachother serves no purpose as this is getting seriously nasty.
Oh come on - flaming and bitching is fuuuun Cheesy

The problem with Vrml_Java_Animators posts, is that they're *huge* - I have to waste MY time reading 250+ excess lines! because someone can't respond clear and concise.

/me *still* wishing for a killfilter

Offline princec

JGO Kernel


Medals: 379
Projects: 3
Exp: 16 years


Eh? Who? What? ... Me?


« Reply #14 - Posted 2003-05-26 08:46:06 »

vrml_java_animator would you mind a) being somewhat less verbose in your posts and please try not to repeat yourself in each post you do on every topic in every forum; once you've said it once that's all it needs and b) please avoid starting flame wars over here, because we have a relatively high signal to noise ratio currently, and we're all generally very helpful to each other in our respective disciplines. This is the LWJGL development topic, and the reason it's about LWJGL is because we don't use Java3D and don't need to hear anything about it in here.



Cas Smiley

Pages: [1]
  ignore  |  Print  
 
 
You cannot reply to this message, because it is very, very old.

 

Add your game by posting it in the WIP section,
or publish it in Showcase.

The first screenshot will be displayed as a thumbnail.

radar3301 (11 views)
2014-09-21 23:33:17

BurntPizza (28 views)
2014-09-21 02:42:18

BurntPizza (19 views)
2014-09-21 01:30:30

moogie (20 views)
2014-09-21 00:26:15

UprightPath (27 views)
2014-09-20 20:14:06

BurntPizza (30 views)
2014-09-19 03:14:18

Dwinin (47 views)
2014-09-12 09:08:26

Norakomi (74 views)
2014-09-10 13:57:51

TehJavaDev (102 views)
2014-09-10 06:39:09

Tekkerue (50 views)
2014-09-09 02:24:56
List of Learning Resources
by Longor1996
2014-08-16 10:40:00

List of Learning Resources
by SilverTiger
2014-08-05 19:33:27

Resources for WIP games
by CogWheelz
2014-08-01 16:20:17

Resources for WIP games
by CogWheelz
2014-08-01 16:19:50

List of Learning Resources
by SilverTiger
2014-07-31 16:29:50

List of Learning Resources
by SilverTiger
2014-07-31 16:26:06

List of Learning Resources
by SilverTiger
2014-07-31 11:54:12

HotSpot Options
by dleskov
2014-07-08 01:59:08
java-gaming.org is not responsible for the content posted by its members, including references to external websites, and other references that may or may not have a relation with our primarily gaming and game production oriented community. inquiries and complaints can be sent via email to the info‑account of the company managing the website of java‑gaming.org
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.18 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines | Managed by Enhanced Four Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!