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  "Point-And-Click" programming  (Read 4188 times)
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Offline EricTheRed

Senior Newbie




Beware the killer bunny, destoryer of worlds!


« Posted 2003-05-23 20:46:00 »

I came across this article at newscientist.com.  It struck me as an interesting concept - especially so since it uses Java. Also worth noting is that the source code for the tools will possibly be released during JavaOne.  Is this a step forward? I have absolutely no idea.
Offline oNyx

JGO Coder


Medals: 1


pixels! :x


« Reply #1 - Posted 2003-05-23 21:44:53 »

>Is this a step forward?

Maybe it's to the side... cha cha cha Smiley

Looks like it will be useful to create skeletons. Accelerated skeleton building... hmm... ~5% less time for the whole project... maybe even more if it's a project wich needs a lot of flow control.

Maybe it can even used by non-techies... maybe it's easy enough that even my bro can use it... maybe I can put some of the work on his shoulders...

optimismOutOfBoundsException :>

Well I guess it's worth a try Wink

弾幕 ☆ @mahonnaiseblog
Offline nickdotjava

Junior Member




I have fallen to the dark side.  I'm using DX9


« Reply #2 - Posted 2003-05-25 06:01:12 »

"A common criticism has been that Java is very hard to use."

Java?  Hard to use?  It's one of the easiest languages I've ever used!

-Nick

"Oh ya, that's trivial.  I should have it done in an hour."
Games published by our own members! Check 'em out!
Legends of Yore - The Casual Retro Roguelike
Offline kevglass

JGO Kernel


Medals: 85
Projects: 25


Coder, Trainee Pixel Artist, Game Reviewer


« Reply #3 - Posted 2003-05-25 08:13:07 »

Easy to use..

Hard to get right...

Kev

Offline Herkules

Senior Member




Friendly fire isn't friendly!


« Reply #4 - Posted 2003-05-25 09:06:58 »

I'm working on a 'visual language' for a bioinformatics app as well. Let me tell you that it is very hard to achieve thing expressable as text in graphical form.

Any system of this kind I've seen before sucks for complex programs.

I always asked myself what is to versatile on pure text.... couldn't find out.

HARDCODE    --     DRTS/FlyingGuns/JPilot/JXInput  --    skype me: joerg.plewe
Offline Herkules

Senior Member




Friendly fire isn't friendly!


« Reply #5 - Posted 2003-05-25 09:20:28 »

Hm, looked at the screenshots .... neither very new nor promising, looks a but like an ER tool + workflow.

Typical problems are how to resolve cardinalities (loops), navigate the type system, conditions... not to speek of concurrency, synchronization....

HARDCODE    --     DRTS/FlyingGuns/JPilot/JXInput  --    skype me: joerg.plewe
Offline swpalmer

JGO Coder




Where's the Kaboom?


« Reply #6 - Posted 2003-05-25 17:38:16 »

nickdotjava,

I was about to post a comment on the same quote.  I think anyone that considers Java hard to program, should probably not be trying to program in the first place.  (They likely started with VB Smiley )

I have seen so many people now that get into programming because they think it is a good way to make money or they just like playing games - but they just don't get it.  They don't have a knack for it.  They can't reason things through in the way that is required to put some ideas into code.  If there is a problem, they don't know what to do or their intuition takes them in a direction that is completely off the mark.

Will a visual tool like this help those people?  I doubt it.

Offline Breakfast

Senior Member




for great justice!


« Reply #7 - Posted 2003-05-26 22:18:55 »

All the programming tools in the world cannot teach you to analyse a problem in a way that will enable you to develop a program to solve it. To do that you have to stop and think- the vast majority of people new to programming want to get typing and just ignore the "on paper" design work that will actually let you create something that works in the end.
Offline MisterBob

Senior Newbie




Developing: 2D Space Shooter & RPG


« Reply #8 - Posted 2003-05-27 00:36:43 »

I agree with the above posters...I've always loathed the fact that VB users actually call themselves programmers...I mean come on...VB is like a bike with training wheels, but some people never seem to remove those training wheels  :-/

Online erikd

JGO Ninja


Medals: 15
Projects: 4
Exp: 14 years


Maximumisness


« Reply #9 - Posted 2003-05-27 08:08:52 »

If java is easy to program but hard to get right, then VB is even easier to program but impossible to get right  Smiley
Since we all want to get things right, this leaves java to be a hard language and VB impossible.

Games published by our own members! Check 'em out!
Legends of Yore - The Casual Retro Roguelike
Offline Orangy Tang

JGO Kernel


Medals: 51
Projects: 11


Monkey for a head


« Reply #10 - Posted 2003-05-27 09:49:43 »

By a strange coincidence, i stumbled across this article a few days ago, while looking for background reading. My final year uni project is going to be something like 'visual game scripting'. Much like the Quake & Quark level scripting, but hopefully more extensive and intergrated with plugin classes.

While the current trend seems to be to embed languages like Python or Lisp as a scripting language, it still requires someone who can program to create anything with it. With tools which are build in to the level editor, almost anyone can play around with it.

So if anyone knows any good sites with info on the current crop of game scripting/modding, they'd be appreciated (shame planetquake is a shell of its former self Cry )

[ TriangularPixels.com - Play Growth Spurt, Rescue Squad and Snowman Village ] [ Rebirth - game resource library ]
Offline princec

JGO Kernel


Medals: 282
Projects: 3
Exp: 16 years


Eh? Who? What? ... Me?


« Reply #11 - Posted 2003-05-28 10:37:19 »

I think there's a lot of mileage in BASIC - in fact I think it's probably the best programming language ever designed.

About 3 years ago I wrote a lexx/yacc thingy that compiled a "BASIC with classes" dialect I cooked up, which was a joy to write (shame I never got round to producing bytecode from it). Chuck away all that public/private crap and curly brackets etc. and you end up with a language that any fool can have a pop at. It's not quite visual but it's amazing how much more clear BASIC looks than Java when it comes to expressing its meaning. Perhaps this is the problem? Why resort to boxes and lines when friendly looking code is already halfway there?


Cas Smiley

Offline ChrisM

JGO Coder


Medals: 1
Projects: 1


END OF LINE.


« Reply #12 - Posted 2003-05-28 11:48:19 »

There was a neat little program back in the early 90's called "Klik and Play" from (tada!) Maxis.  It was a simple 2D game authoring tool that used graphical interfaces and timeline triggers for events.  Very simple to use and a great tool for teaching design and play mechanics.  I'll have to dig this one up and see how fast it runs on my rig now......

Interesting to see if any of that code base was in the Sim series of games Grin

-SG

Offline jbanes

JGO Coder


Projects: 1


"Java Games? Incredible! Mr. Incredible, that is!"


« Reply #13 - Posted 2003-05-28 16:23:20 »

I remember "Klik and Play". It was sort of like VB for games. You added your "Actors" to the playing board, then picked from a predefined set of behaviours, and then filled out the event handlers with a choice of predefined handlers (i.e. bounce, explode, etc.).

As I remember, it was really a lot of fun to dink around with. You could create all kinds of simple games with just the stuff they provided. Sadly, it didn't translate well into more complex games. You can still get it if you want to try it: http://www.clickteam.com/English/klikplay.php.

Java Game Console Project
Last Journal Entry: 12/17/04
Offline EricTheRed

Senior Newbie




Beware the killer bunny, destoryer of worlds!


« Reply #14 - Posted 2003-05-30 00:54:58 »

@Orangy Tang

While not specifically about the current crop of game scripting languages, the following articles at flipCode and GameDev.net might perhaps be of interest.  The articles deal with game scripting in general, however I'm certain they could still be useful.

On a moderately related note, thinking of integrating scripting and level editors, I know that UnrealScript combines the editor and scripts.  For example, a programmer can define a variable that can be altered inside the level editor:
1  
var(Text_in_the_editor) ...

Perhaps a two-tiered system might be useful, where level editors can tinker with some functionality while the rest is delegated to programmers? I must admit that I have had zero experience in these matters, so unfortunately I can't be very helpful.
Offline genepi

Senior Newbie




azerty


« Reply #15 - Posted 2003-06-01 00:32:31 »

Space Ghost, thank you for reminding me of ol' Klick 'n Play! The children had a nice week-end... Grin
Offline CornedBee

Junior Newbie




Eat me!


« Reply #16 - Posted 2003-06-02 11:59:18 »

I once attended a presentation of a program that converted UML diagrams to Java code. It was very interesting to watch.
The thing generated a bunch of source files with nothing but class declarations and claimed it created 98% of the application's code Roll Eyes

I don't know how they know what part of the final product they create, but the presentor was silently laughed at Smiley

All the buzzt
CornedBee :rolleyes:
Offline Smoke

Senior Newbie




games rock!


« Reply #17 - Posted 2003-06-20 05:55:31 »

bump  Grin

any updates on this? anyone seen this on javaOne? perhaps its even released already and i don't know?
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