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  I've been accused of something horrendous  (Read 3241 times)
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Offline K.I.L.E.R

Senior Member




Java games rock!


« Posted 2005-10-17 05:01:33 »

My friends and I were talking.
I gave a friend Eclipse ages ago, I also suggested Eclipse to another friend a few times(Now he's using it).

Today one of my friends were saying that Eclipse was useless. Keep in mind these guys are first year undergraduates and the one who said it was useless had never coded before this year.

Anyway my friend who I had suggested Eclipse to had told my other friend not to worry because I "[...]forces Eclipse[...]" on everyone. Shocked
This shocked me because even though I tend to ramble on about things(like Eclipse being a Godsend) I never believed that I was so persistant to the point of me forcing another human being to use the world's best IDE.

Does this mean I have a strong bias towards Eclipse?

Vorax:
Is there a name for a "redneck" programmer?

Jeff:
Unemployed. Wink
Offline weston

Junior Member





« Reply #1 - Posted 2005-10-17 06:25:32 »

yes.

for(int i = 1; i > 0; i++)
{
System.out.println(i+" cups of java downed");
}
Offline c_lilian

Senior Member


Projects: 1


Java games will probably rock someday...


« Reply #2 - Posted 2005-10-17 07:15:16 »

And also that you haven't tried NB5 Wink

(joking)

Lilian

Games published by our own members! Check 'em out!
Legends of Yore - The Casual Retro Roguelike
Offline Matlu

Junior Member




Hasta La Victoria Siempre!


« Reply #3 - Posted 2005-10-17 08:51:46 »

1. Eclipse really IS a Godsend Smiley
2. Your friends should also try some other IDE, and if they find it more comfortable they should stick to it. You have right to have your own opinion and to gospel it Smiley

Multiplayer Online Games
http://www.duelboard.com
Offline princec

JGO Kernel


Medals: 378
Projects: 3
Exp: 16 years


Eh? Who? What? ... Me?


« Reply #4 - Posted 2005-10-17 09:14:04 »

Funny thing about Eclipse, all the other devs where I work use the Java perspective to code and navigate, and I use the Java Browsing perspective. It completely changes the IDE and I can't for the life of me figure out why they use the daft tree view of the application. Whenever I have to tell them where something is it's painful watching people scroll and click and scroll and click all over the place looking in the enormous tree when I'm only ever 3 clicks away from the precise method I want to edit. Ho hum.

Cas Smiley

Offline Matzon

JGO Knight


Medals: 19
Projects: 1


I'm gonna wring your pants!


« Reply #5 - Posted 2005-10-17 09:25:03 »

I just use CTRL+SHIFT+T - no clicking, only typing Smiley

Offline Matzon

JGO Knight


Medals: 19
Projects: 1


I'm gonna wring your pants!


« Reply #6 - Posted 2005-10-17 09:25:27 »

and ofcourse CTRL+O for methods

Offline ryanm

Senior Member


Projects: 1
Exp: 15 years


Used to be bleb


« Reply #7 - Posted 2005-10-17 09:46:07 »

the one who said it was useless had never coded before this year.

There's the problem right there, he's unable to appreciate Eclipse for the sublime whisper of love that it so manifestly is because he can't yet know how good it is.

Give him a year or two of manual-refactoring, classpath-setting, typo-ridden, uphill-both-ways-in-the-snow programming and he'll see the light.
Offline m00wley

Senior Newbie





« Reply #8 - Posted 2005-10-17 12:48:44 »

It's just like beer!
The first beer you ever drinked, tasted somewhat funny and you couldnt figure out what the fuzz was all about. But the more beer you drink, the more you seem to like the godsend brew.

And I would like to propose a toast for Eclipse, Cheers!


// ----------------------------------------------------------------------<br />// 1 c0de, there for( I am...)<br />// ----------------------------------------------------------------------
Offline OverKill

Junior Member




Java games rock!


« Reply #9 - Posted 2005-10-17 13:49:43 »

Ask them what you should have done?
Tell them to use MS-Editor and the dos console?

To do a job you need the right tools, and when it comes to tools only the best will do.
Among them are imho Eclipse, jEdit and NetBeans.
You thought Eclipse is the best and thus you gave them the tool you thought was best.

If someone thinks Eclipse sucks... well then they should stay away from anything more complicated then a stick! Wink

If you want to really rub it in, tell them you would gladly run through it with them step by step to make sure he gets it.
Games published by our own members! Check 'em out!
Legends of Yore - The Casual Retro Roguelike
kul_th_las
Guest
« Reply #10 - Posted 2005-10-17 15:13:37 »

The first semester of Java I had we used the old DOS standby, Edit. Even though I'd used IDEs in other languages, it worked fine. It's just a newbie thing.

Incidentally, before I found Eclipse I used EditPadPro (a cool little text editor) for its syntax highlighting and project file support. If I'm working on a program where the entire thing is less than 300 lines, and less than 4 source files (give or take), I still use a text editor in some cases. Of course, I use EditPadPro for a number of other things as well - like jotting down game designs, editing batch files, and the like.

I say if your friends feel like you're forcing Eclipse on them, tell them to grow a backbone and propose an alternative. Smiley Sounds like they're not going to be writing anything beyond the typical textbook algorithms for a while yet anyway.
Offline kappa
« League of Dukes »

JGO Kernel


Medals: 77
Projects: 15


★★★★★


« Reply #11 - Posted 2005-10-17 16:18:13 »

i started learning java on the BlueJ IDE, was the best at the time, very good for newbiees was planning to keep it as my primary ide, but when i started writing a proper project, it just wasn't powerful enough to handle lots of classes and stuff, just became too cumbersome to manage the project and thus i needed something more powerful, so i decided to try eclipse and see what all the fuss was about, since then never looked back, now i'm just hooked onto eclipse, its really good once you get the hang of it, but i wouldn't recommend it to someone new as the learning curve can be a bit high, if your new to programming.
Offline f.l.x

Senior Member


Projects: 3


there is no place like 127.0.0.1


« Reply #12 - Posted 2005-10-17 18:40:51 »

I started with kawa, two years ago, and i have to say it was very fast and simple and even better than eclipse or nb for a beginer (the auto-completion was very cheesy and it lacks automation, so you had to study the apis), but after trying eclipse, i think i'll stick to it for a long time. It's the best ide i have tried so far, intuitive (i got lost into nb  Embarrassed ), very good and useful automatizations and the refactoring tool is cream. Without mention that there are plugins for almost everything.

so... stick to eclipse!  Grin

Litterarum radices amaras, fructus dulces
http://flx.proyectoanonimo.com
figth spam!
Offline zingbat

Senior Member




Java games rock!


« Reply #13 - Posted 2005-10-17 18:44:02 »

Today one of my friends were saying that Eclipse was useless. Keep in mind these guys are first year undergraduates and the one who said it was useless had never coded before this year.

Eclipse is not for little girls.  Tongue
Offline Vorax

Senior Member


Projects: 1


System shutting down in 5..4..3...


« Reply #14 - Posted 2005-10-17 19:28:51 »

Eclipse is the Porche 911 turbo of Java IDE's - not everyone is ready  for a stick shift and all that power Smiley

Offline anarchotron

Junior Member




...precious bodily fluids.


« Reply #15 - Posted 2005-10-17 20:26:52 »

Well the Java Browsing view only lets you see the details of 1 class at a time, sometimes it is useful to drag & drop methods and data around between classes.  I suppose control-c(or x)/ control-v might work.

What with control-shift-t and control-o the treeview really works for me... although for the life of me I can't figure out why "Show in Package Explorer" is not bound to a hotkey.  If I could just click on a symbol in code and jump directly to the tree without using that damn popup menu, I'd be happy.


Funny thing about Eclipse, all the other devs where I work use the Java perspective to code and navigate, and I use the Java Browsing perspective. It completely changes the IDE and I can't for the life of me figure out why they use the daft tree view of the application. Whenever I have to tell them where something is it's painful watching people scroll and click and scroll and click all over the place looking in the enormous tree when I'm only ever 3 clicks away from the precise method I want to edit. Ho hum.

Cas Smiley
Offline f.l.x

Senior Member


Projects: 3


there is no place like 127.0.0.1


« Reply #16 - Posted 2005-10-17 21:30:48 »

Eclipse is the Porche 911 turbo of Java IDE's

lol, i never expected to read "eclipse" and "turbo" on the same sentence

Litterarum radices amaras, fructus dulces
http://flx.proyectoanonimo.com
figth spam!
Offline princec

JGO Kernel


Medals: 378
Projects: 3
Exp: 16 years


Eh? Who? What? ... Me?


« Reply #17 - Posted 2005-10-18 10:02:54 »

It's bloody fast these days for what it does.

Cas Smiley

Offline f.l.x

Senior Member


Projects: 3


there is no place like 127.0.0.1


« Reply #18 - Posted 2005-10-18 11:27:56 »

It is, indeed, after a minute or so of loading.

Litterarum radices amaras, fructus dulces
http://flx.proyectoanonimo.com
figth spam!
Offline swpalmer

JGO Coder




Where's the Kaboom?


« Reply #19 - Posted 2005-10-18 12:15:53 »

Have you ever waited for Visual Studio.NET to load a reasonably complex project?  Just sit there for a minute or two watching the UI flicker like mad Smiley

Eclipse is pretty darn awesome, and thankfully NetBeans 5 is catching up too.  It still has a way to go in my book, but it has it's own advantages and it's nice to see that the NB team isn't standing still.  Competition is good - specially when I end up with free stuff because of it Smiley.

Offline anarchotron

Junior Member




...precious bodily fluids.


« Reply #20 - Posted 2005-10-18 13:31:56 »

Ya Visual Studio 6.0 is pretty horrendous with a large project as well.  At work our source base is around 2 million lines of code, in 203 dsp projects within a single workspace.  Talk about slow and crash-o-matic.  We must use a script that extracts sub-groups of projects from the dsp (e.g. server, client, tool) to even use the thing.  Even with our smaller workspaces, the auto-complete feature corrupts itself, fails to function, and crashes the app.  And don't get me started on the 64 MB PDB size limit that is hard coded into the compiler.

Visual Studio .NET is not an option for this project because the link time is between 5-10 minutes per link!  Even with 'IncrediLink' it is several minutes.  I'm waiting patiently for MS to get thier shizit together with Visual Studio .NET!

Have you ever waited for Visual Studio.NET to load a reasonably complex project?  Just sit there for a minute or two watching the UI flicker like mad Smiley

Eclipse is pretty darn awesome, and thankfully NetBeans 5 is catching up too.  It still has a way to go in my book, but it has it's own advantages and it's nice to see that the NB team isn't standing still.  Competition is good - specially when I end up with free stuff because of it Smiley.
Offline Vorax

Senior Member


Projects: 1


System shutting down in 5..4..3...


« Reply #21 - Posted 2005-10-18 14:17:44 »

We use Eclipse on our very large Java project at work - 4.5 million lines of code and CTRL-SHIFT-T is still an instant jump through the code base - and it doesn't crash or even seem hampered by it.  For the speed of that alone, Eclipse is a god send.

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