why is there no jre for PDAs ?

[Serethos]

im currently wondering why sun offers no jre for a pocket pc or palm os. i like to start
a university project for using java (no matter if se or j2me) as a client on pda for communicating
with a microcontroller board.
is there any (good) reason ?

[nonnus29]

My pda has a jre; I have a sharp zaurus that has embedded linux for the os; jeode.  There are a couple of java compilers around that work on it nicely; I use kopi (jikes is another).

I found this with a bit of google-fu:

http://www2s.biglobe.ne.jp/~dat/java/project/jvm/index_en.html

[Jeff]

A very good reason.

It would cost money to do. It would make us no money.

When it comes to devices, we do Java ports when licensed and paid for by the device manufacturers.  Every VM ona cell phone that is done by Sun, the cell phone maker pays for.  Every one thats is done by someoen else, we still generally get some licensing income from.  So far, the PDA makers by and large havent found it worth their while to pay for such things.  (The exception, as mentioned above, is a efw of the linux based PDAs such as the Zaurus.)

Hard to run a business without income.

Also keep in mind that many of your current PDAs are PocketPC.  Microsoft isnt exactly a big Java fan and arent going to enocurage their licensees to support it.

Games published by our own members! Check 'em out!

[Riven]

Microsoft isnt exactly a big Java fan <...>

When looking at C# it seems they are a big Java fan

_{Sorry for being so damn offtopic}

[William Denniss]

There was a JVM for the old Palm OS by Sun but it was just a beta and never really went anywhere.

It is a shame, I think this is a lost opportunity for Java.  In fact it is a real shame that Java has such low device penetration.  Sure it's big on mobiles but it would be nice to see it on other things too.  Until then or until .NET beats Java to it (and with Microsoft behind the XBOX no doubt it will), C/C++ is king and one shouldn't try to ignore that (as I have been).  I would just like to write java code for consoles like the PS2 and PSP.  I don't care if I have to use a non-portable API, I don't care if the code runs though a JVM or is precompiled.

But what can I do?  I guess I will have to leave Java game programming as a hobby and resign to the fact that if I want to make a game on any non-PC platform I will have to use C.

Sorry for taking it even further off topic, this issue is just close at heart currently.  I'm not blaming Sun or any individual, I am just expressing regret at what I see is a lost opportunity (well it's not lost yet but it will be unless something changes in a hurry).  As an IT professional, I am probably a fool to get my hopes up on any future technology and should just concentrate on using what works today -- for console dev that means C++.  Fortunately for PC's Java games do work excellently as has been shown by the many great games that have been released, I truly hope one day it makes the leap for the console but there's no point holding my breath.  With the industry tending more and more towards console games I just fear Java for games will be come less and less relevant.


Will.

[Falken]

(Another thead turns into a Java-on-consoles topic. LOL )

Surely it's only a matter of time before Java will penetrate other devices.  It certainly has penetrated mobiles.  And the mobile phone has every intention of becoming the consolidated, always-worn, games console, personal media player, PDA device.

Notice how all of the established games companies are moving into mobile.  All of them are announcing mobile game divisions (forget Tetris - they're thinking much bigger).  They're all following the same roadmap - form the management team now and start recruiting Java game developers in late 2006 (which is when programmable hardware accelerated 3D devices are due).

Admittedly it still remains a potential future technology, but given the entire gaming industry (an incredibly narrow-minded bunch) is seriously making moves, I find it difficult to dismiss that potential.

[William Denniss]

I think there will always be a difference though between dedicated gaming consoles like the PSP and phones with a bit of 3D and gaming tacked on.  Think of cameras on the mobile phone -- they don't replace all the features of a proper camera.  They are good when all you need is lower grade photos and conveiance but they don't replace proper cameras.  Similar with games -- lower grade games but very conveinent.  Not as nice as a GameBoy game (I won't even bother comparing it to the PSP), but much more convenient since you always have your phone.

I'm not denying that mobile phones are not a big market, I am simply saying it would be nice to see Java on a dedicated gaming console!  I personally don't see these two areas converging naturally the way you do.

Will.

[nonnus29]

Waitasecond!!!

Jeode works on win ce as well:

http://www.cs.unc.edu/~lindsey/7ds/notes/jeode/

So what are  you guys complaining about again?

 

[OverKill]

Slightly OT but does anyone know a place where I can find a list of PDAs that support java?
Possibly also bluetooth and such.
I have been thinking about getting a cheap one so I can play with.

[princec]

I'd complain about their general shitness. Impossibly cranky, ancient outdated APIs, and slow as hell. Pointless.

Cas