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Offline swpalmer

JGO Coder




Where's the Kaboom?


« Reply #30 - Posted 2005-10-08 16:04:23 »

HTML+CSS+AJAX is much much quicker to write good UI's in than any standard GUI API I've ever seen.

I don't know enough about AJAX... but HTML+CSS alone is not designed for UI at all and is a horrible hack when used for more than presentation layout.  Last time I checked there is no decent structure for any sort of program logic in HTML+CSS.  It is the wrong tool for the job - despite the efforts of many to shoehorn an app around it.

Offline princec

JGO Kernel


Medals: 284
Projects: 3
Exp: 16 years


Eh? Who? What? ... Me?


« Reply #31 - Posted 2005-10-08 19:04:30 »

That's where the Javascript bit comes in, and as any programmer knows, Javascript was something that Satan pulled out of his arse. The whole idea is just a joke but you can just tell that they're going to plug the hell out of it until the next clever idea comes along. Take a look at Canoo, which is basically the same design as the one we've home-grown at work. I happen to think that's a good design Smiley

Cas Smiley

Offline zingbat

Senior Member




Java games rock!


« Reply #32 - Posted 2005-10-09 02:20:50 »

The right tool is the one that gets your work done.

If you were to cut a loaf of bread wouldn't you use a kitchen knife instead a battle-axe or a two-handed sword ?

That's where the Javascript bit comes in, and as any programmer knows, Javascript was something that Satan pulled out of his arse.

True but so is Java. Or do you think Java is a brilliantly desgined programming language ? Still nothing stops people from using it with many advantages over the competition.
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Legends of Yore - The Casual Retro Roguelike
Offline William Denniss

JGO Coder


Projects: 2


Fire at will


« Reply #33 - Posted 2005-10-09 05:31:37 »

swpalmer, et. al, the thing is that you don't have to write your application in HTML/CSS these days.

I have written some web applications using JavaServer Faces which is dubbed as swing for servlets.  I simply write my code and let JSF worry about the rendering of the pages and state management.  In theory it can render my code to different devices like PDA's as well (though I havn't set that up).

I don't give a crap what the HTML/CSS looks like, so long as it is valid and renders correctly -- I never have to maintain that code.  What I do know is that my JSF code is nice and neat.  .NET has an equivilent API as well (web forms or something).  Both API's solve the problem of state management and forms very nicely.

I agree if you are writing a pure HTML/CSS app using JSP or something it sucks badly.  While learning JSF takes longer than simply using JSP with HTML (assuming you already know Java and HTML), once you have learnt it you are probably about five time more efficient when building forms, and much less likely to go insane.

Applets are horrid for things like forms.  A project I worked on I inherited a registration process which used a full page applet and sent data back and forward to a servlet each page of the form *shudders*.  Personally I love Java's rich client offerings.  Combined with JWS, you have a very nice way of getting rich clients on the desktop.  But, java really doesn't belong in the browser (ok, applets definitally have their use for supplimentry things, but not hte main show).  Flash is no better.


Will.

Offline shawnkendall

Senior Member





« Reply #34 - Posted 2005-10-09 05:31:48 »

...Javascript was something that Satan pulled out of his arse...

All I can say is WOW, that's a quote...
Wow.

Shawn Kendall
Cosmic Interactive, LLC
http://www.facebook.com/BermudaDash
Offline William Denniss

JGO Coder


Projects: 2


Fire at will


« Reply #35 - Posted 2005-10-09 05:45:07 »

lol, lets not say things we can't take back now, what does that make VBScript?

*shudder*


I think javascript is pretty good now that it's standardised and has a decent debugger (firefox/mozilla).  Like any tool though it can be used for good or evil.

Will.

Offline swpalmer

JGO Coder




Where's the Kaboom?


« Reply #36 - Posted 2005-10-10 04:10:07 »

Personally I love Java's rich client offerings.  Combined with JWS, you have a very nice way of getting rich clients on the desktop.  But, java really doesn't belong in the browser (ok, applets definitally have their use for supplimentry things, but not hte main show).  Flash is no better.

I suspect you say that for the same reasons that I say full-fledged applications have no place in the browser.  Maybe there is something "new" happening with this AJAX thing.. but I will believe it when I see it.

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