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  Pure Java Port of ODE - planning/feasibility  (Read 41984 times)
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Offline kitfox

Junior Member




Java games rock!


« Reply #120 - Posted 2005-10-28 23:18:39 »

If this class is simply matrix and quaternion mathematics, why not just cut and paste from javax.vecmath?  Aside from euler angles, I'd imagine most of this work is already done. 

It might also be a good idea to treat ODE as a guide and use it to shape your overall architecture rather than try to duplicate each individual line of code.  Perhaps, if this is to be a community project, a good aproach woudl be to design an ODE like architecture, publish a UML document or write interfaces for the most important classes and packages, and open it up to folks at large to develop the individual parts?

Also, how goes the progress with the dev.java.net account?  It's akward to look at your code and difficut to contribute anything unless we can access a CVS repository.  (If you're hung up in admin issues, if you post to the java-net board, some admin folks will help you out).

Mark McKay
Offline t_larkworthy

Senior Member


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Google App Engine Rocks!


« Reply #121 - Posted 2005-10-29 02:30:39 »

Quote
If this class is simply matrix and quaternion mathematics, why not just cut and paste from javax.vecmath?
Becuase the storage mechanisms are not the same and ODE uses alot of functions not in vecmath. It also does magic things like use the vector functions with its matrices and stores lists of matrices and vectors all in the one storage mechanism (and then mixes all the functions that are applied to them). I think the port will be very difficult trying to neaten it up as we go along. I think what would work though is implement it and then do some clever wrapping to provide uses with nice interfaces to the mess.

Quote
how goes the progress with the dev.java.net account?
Dunno. I did seem to be making progress but now alas nothing. I don't know where Jeff is. I have been trying to email him :-(

Quote
It's akward to look at your code and difficut to contribute anything unless we can access a CVS repository
Yeah I know. I don't really expect anyone to do anything with that code I posted. Not even read it.

On a general project coding front I have jsut implemented the LCP algorithm (only the slow version), and also the test harness. Unfortunatly the tests are failing :-(
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LCP internal error, s <= 0 (s=-0.0)
A*x = b+w, maximum difference = 29.995323
FAILED: i=3 x=0.33648005 w=0.0 lo=-Infinity hi=0.0
FAILED: i=7 x=0.75172126 w=0.0 lo=-Infinity hi=0.0
FAILED: i=10 x=0.31791627 w=0.0 lo=-Infinity hi=0.0
FAILED: i=11 x=0.5623604 w=0.0 lo=-Infinity hi=0.0
FAILED: i=12 x=1.1555656 w=0.0 lo=-Infinity hi=0.0
FAILED: i=14 x=0.40152782 w=0.0 lo=-Infinity hi=0.0
FAILED: i=17 x=0.07633107 w=0.0 lo=-Infinity hi=0.0
FAILED: i=18 x=1.1700702 w=0.0 lo=-Infinity hi=0.0
FAILED: i=21 x=0.3868724 w=0.0 lo=-Infinity hi=0.0
FAILED: i=22 x=0.27218696 w=0.0 lo=-Infinity hi=0.0
FAILED: i=26 x=1.0934172 w=0.0 lo=-Infinity hi=0.0
FAILED: i=29 x=0.057841647 w=0.0 lo=-Infinity hi=0.0
FAILED: i=32 x=0.02228606 w=0.0 lo=-Infinity hi=0.0
FAILED: i=34 x=0.9545406 w=0.0 lo=-Infinity hi=0.0
FAILED: i=35 x=0.8431248 w=0.0 lo=-Infinity hi=0.0
FAILED: i=39 x=0.8896973 w=0.0 lo=-Infinity hi=0.0
FAILED: i=41 x=0.49647236 w=0.0 lo=-Infinity hi=0.0
FAILED: i=44 x=0.44761813 w=0.0 lo=-Infinity hi=0.0
FAILED: i=45 x=0.69401413 w=0.0 lo=-Infinity hi=0.0
FAILED: i=46 x=0.5576692 w=0.0 lo=-Infinity hi=0.0
FAILED: i=48 x=0.27824977 w=0.0 lo=-Infinity hi=0.0
FAILED: i=49 x=0.22342157 w=0.0 lo=-Infinity hi=0.0
passed: NL=7 NH=2 C=69
time=117876000 ns  avg=64194725000


Not in all cases (100 are run each test case and in this case 69+2+7=78 have passed) but obviously something is not right somewhere. I wonder if anyone has a working copy of ODE they coudl tell me if any at all fail in normal testing operation. The function is dTestSolveLCP(). That method may even be available in javaODE. I don't know though.

Damn it is 3.30a.m. and I am in my office! I have a half hour walk home yet :-(

Still JOODE is shaping up! :-)
 

Runesketch: an Online CCG built on Google App Engine where players draw their cards and trade. Fight, draw or trade yourself to success.
Offline Amos Wenger

Senior Member




Everything's possible, but not everything's fun...


« Reply #122 - Posted 2005-10-29 15:35:33 »

I'm sorry I don't answer very often, but I'm present and follow this so interessant discussion.
I agree with kitfox, that ODE should be a guide for how to shape the architecture of JOODE.
I continue to study physics and maths (unofficially) and I've done a mini-"physics engine" with :
 - Sphere / Sphere collision detection (not that hard..)
 - Rectangle / Rectangle collision detection (needed for a 2D platform game I work on)
 - Basic reaction :
   - First, I implemented the "go last step but one when a collision happens" method
   - I replaced it with a separate X / Y detection collision, that permits to slide along X or Y axis
   - And now I'm making a slightly better slide algorithm using the collision normal (rectangle represented by four planes)
It's really not a big work, as I'm implementing just what I need for my game, but I'm thinking further, for example how to check collisions with irregular objects (trimeshes ?) :
 - May it's a good idea to make OBB trees that shape the mesh ?
 - Maybe for terrain we can deal directly with heightmap values ? That would avoid the "pass-through" bug in ODE (the dTerrain class was supposed to correct that, huh ?)

I will continue to learn all the physic-related material that I can find, and I will contribute as soon as we have a CVS somewhere.
Oh, and maybe should we make an account on sourceforge.net, and that for two major reasons :
 - Jeff seems to be in vacation.. Cheesy
 - Maybe it's time to reconciliate Java and the Open source world.. That's another debate but.. I'm not sure java.net should host projects like JOODE, Xith3D, LWJGL.. these are open source projects, and sourceforge.net is made for that.

"Once you start working on something, don't be afraid of failure and don't abandon it. People who work sincerely are the happiest"
Games published by our own members! Check 'em out!
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Offline darkprophet

Senior Member




Go Go Gadget Arms


« Reply #123 - Posted 2005-10-29 23:34:25 »

Quote
Maybe it's time to reconciliate Java and the Open source world.. That's another debate but.. I'm not sure java.net should host projects like JOODE, Xith3D, LWJGL.. these are open source projects, and sourceforge.net is made for that.

LWJGL is on sourceforge.net

Quote
First, I implemented the "go last step but one when a collision happens" method
You did? Isn't that called swept collision detection? How did you manage to construct the convex bound around the last step and this step in real time? Looks like people might pay you alot of money for that... Shocked

DP


Friends don't let friends make MMORPGs.

Blog | Volatile-Engine
Offline arne

Senior Member




money is the worst drug- we should not let it rule


« Reply #124 - Posted 2005-10-30 10:10:34 »

Hey Guys,

My project is gearing into full swing and i have NO time.

Im a bit annoyed as this gig was *suppsoed* to be temporary and frankly i just no longer have even the spare bandwidth for it.

Im going to make a lot of noise and TRY to get you a new adminas soonas possible.

Until then I am afraid project processing will be irregular at best.

JK

It seems like it's going to take loads of time for our project to get approved. So we really should switch to sourceforge then.

Arne

:: JOODE :: Xith3d :: OdeJava ::
Offline t_larkworthy

Senior Member


Medals: 1
Projects: 1


Google App Engine Rocks!


« Reply #125 - Posted 2005-10-30 22:47:35 »

Quote
It seems like it's going to take loads of time for our project to get approved. So we really should switch to sourceforge then.

myeah. What a pain. I shall start the admin now...

Runesketch: an Online CCG built on Google App Engine where players draw their cards and trade. Fight, draw or trade yourself to success.
Offline t_larkworthy

Senior Member


Medals: 1
Projects: 1


Google App Engine Rocks!


« Reply #126 - Posted 2005-10-30 22:57:29 »

Oh and as for.
Quote
I agree with kitfox, that ODE should be a guide for how to shape the architecture of JOODE
I also agree somewhat with Kitfox. The overall archetecture should be improved.  There are multiple implementations of different algorithms in ODE, selected with preprocessing. There are differently optimized versions fo the stepping algorithm and LCP algorithm for example. I am thinking these will be tinkered with using an AbstractFactoryPattern in Joode.
The choice for data representation for the underlying vectors and matrices is a totally different situation though. Changing how they are stored creates a major porting headache becuase they are used and abused everywhere in the ODE source. Changing the high level architecture is not a big implementation issue, changing the fundamental mathmatical framework the code is built apon is. I also beleive that benifits of changing the way vectors are stored can be obtained using a simpler implementation option. Instead of changing all the ODE code to use a new mechanism we can write a wrapper to their mechanism and make it look as pretty as we like for the users of the library. Thus we can easily port the code, and provide a nice interface to the system, a win-win situation.

Right...

Runesketch: an Online CCG built on Google App Engine where players draw their cards and trade. Fight, draw or trade yourself to success.
Offline t_larkworthy

Senior Member


Medals: 1
Projects: 1


Google App Engine Rocks!


« Reply #127 - Posted 2005-10-30 23:50:22 »

OK. So sourceforge is pending now. Max of 2 business days they say (If no problems are highlighted).

Runesketch: an Online CCG built on Google App Engine where players draw their cards and trade. Fight, draw or trade yourself to success.
Offline swpalmer

JGO Coder




Where's the Kaboom?


« Reply #128 - Posted 2005-10-31 02:31:06 »

Hey, does Source-Forge support Subversion repositories yet?  If so, I suggests using Subversion over CVS.

(Funny that Java.net doesn't seem to have Subversion support, given that it is a produyct of Collabnet, the group behind subversion.)

Offline t_larkworthy

Senior Member


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« Reply #129 - Posted 2005-10-31 13:33:40 »

No subversion for sourceforge :-(

Runesketch: an Online CCG built on Google App Engine where players draw their cards and trade. Fight, draw or trade yourself to success.
Games published by our own members! Check 'em out!
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Offline Amos Wenger

Senior Member




Everything's possible, but not everything's fun...


« Reply #130 - Posted 2005-10-31 15:40:50 »

Quote
Maybe it's time to reconciliate Java and the Open source world.. That's another debate but.. I'm not sure java.net should host projects like JOODE, Xith3D, LWJGL.. these are open source projects, and sourceforge.net is made for that.

LWJGL is on sourceforge.net
Oh, so LWJGL is still better than I thought.. Smiley

Quote
Quote
First, I implemented the "go last step but one when a collision happens" method
You did? Isn't that called swept collision detection? How did you manage to construct the convex bound around the last step and this step in real time? Looks like people might pay you alot of money for that... Shocked
I wish I had ! No I simply tested collision at each step, no swept collision detection in here. However, it shouldn't be so difficult to do.. maybe too time-consuming in real-time.. but not impossible.

"Once you start working on something, don't be afraid of failure and don't abandon it. People who work sincerely are the happiest"
Offline arne

Senior Member




money is the worst drug- we should not let it rule


« Reply #131 - Posted 2005-10-31 16:52:46 »

Oh and as for.
Quote
I agree with kitfox, that ODE should be a guide for how to shape the architecture of JOODE
I also agree somewhat with Kitfox. The overall archetecture should be improved.  There are multiple implementations of different algorithms in ODE, selected with preprocessing. There are differently optimized versions fo the stepping algorithm and LCP algorithm for example. I am thinking these will be tinkered with using an AbstractFactoryPattern in Joode.
The choice for data representation for the underlying vectors and matrices is a totally different situation though. Changing how they are stored creates a major porting headache becuase they are used and abused everywhere in the ODE source. Changing the high level architecture is not a big implementation issue, changing the fundamental mathmatical framework the code is built apon is. I also beleive that benifits of changing the way vectors are stored can be obtained using a simpler implementation option. Instead of changing all the ODE code to use a new mechanism we can write a wrapper to their mechanism and make it look as pretty as we like for the users of the library. Thus we can easily port the code, and provide a nice interface to the system, a win-win situation.

Right...

+1
for having the ODE structure and the clean structure together.
We could have a class like a RealArray, that can contain Matrices, Vectors..., but works like the ODE Real.
RealArray on the other hand could work also like a normal array of Objects of type Real.

:: JOODE :: Xith3d :: OdeJava ::
Offline kitfox

Junior Member




Java games rock!


« Reply #132 - Posted 2005-10-31 17:02:56 »

I would like to suggest that the JOODE team gives java.net another try.  It looks like  the JOODE account has been set up; it's simply not been logged into by  the project owner yet.  I've set up several projects on java.net, and everything's been set up and working well in a couple of days.  If the owner is having problems with the java.net account, simply post  to the forums at https://java-net.dev.java.net/, and the staff who read it are quite friendly and capable of guiding folks who are setting up accounts there.

Offline arne

Senior Member




money is the worst drug- we should not let it rule


« Reply #133 - Posted 2005-10-31 19:52:31 »

I would like to suggest that the JOODE team gives java.net another try.  It looks like  the JOODE account has been set up; it's simply not been logged into by  the project owner yet.  I've set up several projects on java.net, and everything's been set up and working well in a couple of days.  If the owner is having problems with the java.net account, simply post  to the forums at https://java-net.dev.java.net/, and the staff who read it are quite friendly and capable of guiding folks who are setting up accounts there.

The account alway get's created, but it's only accesable by the project owner, until it got approved. But because Jeff has so much to do, he can't approve and do all this stuff, so the project is there, but it doesn't get approved. -> We aren't able to acess it, so it's as if it doesn't exist.

:: JOODE :: Xith3d :: OdeJava ::
Offline t_larkworthy

Senior Member


Medals: 1
Projects: 1


Google App Engine Rocks!


« Reply #134 - Posted 2005-10-31 21:31:55 »

indeed. The holdup is on getting approval. We can switch over to java.net once it finally gets approved and sourceforge can be the intermediate. Although maybe we will get entrenched in sourcforge so who knows. I don't know the feature comparisons.

Runesketch: an Online CCG built on Google App Engine where players draw their cards and trade. Fight, draw or trade yourself to success.
Offline William Denniss

JGO Coder


Projects: 2


Fire at will


« Reply #135 - Posted 2005-11-01 08:45:01 »

I have emailed Jeff directly (and CC'd Tom).  Java.net would be best - have everything in the one place.  If it doesn't get approved soon though, going with SF is a good alternative.

Sorry I havn't been replying more, I have just got a job (more details later) and thus am rather busy.

Will.

Offline t_larkworthy

Senior Member


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Projects: 1


Google App Engine Rocks!


« Reply #136 - Posted 2005-11-02 02:27:21 »

Woo! I have the first simualtion running! Mind you I have not plumbed in any graphics so I cannot see if it is working  Huh

Jeff is making no promises on how long he will take to approve our project. The sourceforge one should be valid soon. I have an assignment in 2morrow which I have neglected and it is now 2.30a.m. Hmmmmmm. Oh well, if I can cobble it together as fast as this physics engine I might be ok  Tongue

Runesketch: an Online CCG built on Google App Engine where players draw their cards and trade. Fight, draw or trade yourself to success.
Offline t_larkworthy

Senior Member


Medals: 1
Projects: 1


Google App Engine Rocks!


« Reply #137 - Posted 2005-11-03 23:45:56 »

Right. Well the basic archetecture is running now.
You can access the source be downloading
http://homepages.inf.ed.ac.uk/s0570397/joode-src.tar.gz

OR

you can get it from...

https://sourceforge.net/projects/joode/

At the moment I have only uploaded the source, I did not want to spend hours uploading to their CVS repository if we are gonna switch Jeff willing, sourceforge do not suppor the -r command so its incredibly tedious uploading files.

To test the functionality I have currently put a dependancy on Xith3D. So you will need those packages in your runpath and you will need to set you java.library.path system variable with the -D VM option before you will be able to run the jaw dropping demo:

net.java.dev.joode.test.step.SphereCollisionTest

Under the bonnet I have struggled to get this working. I have implemented two stepping algorithms, x1 and x2. x2 is the highly optimized stepping algotihm but it does not work, and x1 only works when it uses the SlowLCP implementation (although that is the best option for it to use, you will see the options at the top of the source for that class)
I have only implemented the unoptimized version of the LCP algorithm, though I do beleive that is working.

The Space architecture is in place currently, but only simple space exists.
The geom architecture is in place, but only spheres are in place
The collision architecture is in place, but only a SphereSphere, and a GeomSpace collider is implemented.
The Joint implementation is messy but in place, but only collision (i.e. Contact) joints exist.
Bodies and dynamics are working.
Mass is partially implemented (the core is there but loads of minor methods are missing).

So I dunno if people want to get started yet, or to wait until we get java.net. The damn package names are all wrong Angry

If you want to get eased into development then I suggest implementing some geoms. There are fairly straightforward and you can copy the style of the Sphere class easily. Slightly more advanced would be to implement extra Joints. Or better yet get rid of all the crazy virtual tables and suchlike, they are this crazy way ODE used to store all joint information in one data area. I think it is fairly easy to turn all the virtual functions into abstract methods of a joint superclass.
Hardcore people might want to try and tackly the stepIsland_x2 method or the LCPFast (and abstract the LCP class so it can be switched)

The stepIsland_x1 method shows how easy it can be to translate ODE source when using the RealPointer class. It was necissary becuase the code got so painfully obscure, though simple ports of functioanlity perhaps won't need to use this class.
All the diverse math functions have been lumped into a class called MathUtils. Almost all math methods I could find have been cut and pasted into there (and then hidden from the compiler in comment) so if a math method is missing, its source is probably hidden in that file. I have heavily overloaded some of the methods so it might look a bit bizairre how to use some of the methods but I will clarify that when required.

To Joode!
 



Runesketch: an Online CCG built on Google App Engine where players draw their cards and trade. Fight, draw or trade yourself to success.
Offline t_larkworthy

Senior Member


Medals: 1
Projects: 1


Google App Engine Rocks!


« Reply #138 - Posted 2005-11-04 16:34:55 »

Prospective developers:-
Please PM me with sourceforge account details so I can give you developers access. I don't think Jeff is gonna do anything this week again so I think we should just work on sourceforge for the time being.

Runesketch: an Online CCG built on Google App Engine where players draw their cards and trade. Fight, draw or trade yourself to success.
Offline arne

Senior Member




money is the worst drug- we should not let it rule


« Reply #139 - Posted 2005-11-04 19:01:46 »

Ok I registered now at sourceforge - I should have my account tomorrow then. I've seen, we've got forums there, too - so we could also use those, but actually I think this is a bad idea, because if we keep posting here more people are reading the stuff, so more people are able to answert the question. Who implements what questions should of course discussed there.

:: JOODE :: Xith3d :: OdeJava ::
Offline t_larkworthy

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« Reply #140 - Posted 2005-11-04 22:13:14 »

Yeah. When we get java.net we should use those forums. The sourceforge pages are slow to load so it would annoy me using those forums.

Runesketch: an Online CCG built on Google App Engine where players draw their cards and trade. Fight, draw or trade yourself to success.
Offline t_larkworthy

Senior Member


Medals: 1
Projects: 1


Google App Engine Rocks!


« Reply #141 - Posted 2005-11-04 22:41:02 »

OK. I have added the required libraries into the project, and the ode source we are working off, and a license (which is currently just a direct copy of ODE's).
I spose it be nice to have a good ant script to run the thing....

Runesketch: an Online CCG built on Google App Engine where players draw their cards and trade. Fight, draw or trade yourself to success.
Offline arne

Senior Member




money is the worst drug- we should not let it rule


« Reply #142 - Posted 2005-11-05 22:02:01 »

Nice Smiley the test case also worked at my comp Cheesy - the structure looks good, but could you post an uml diagram of what is already imlpemented? (I don't have a good uml creater, that creates from java-files, there's one in eclipse, but it made crap when I tried it and I don't want it to delete all my code [that nearly happend, when I used it last time] )

About the forums: good, then we keep posting here for now.

:: JOODE :: Xith3d :: OdeJava ::
Offline arne

Senior Member




money is the worst drug- we should not let it rule


« Reply #143 - Posted 2005-11-06 17:56:42 »

Ok I've worked a bit on the code and added Boxes. It also works with one Box Smiley

Sphere-Box collisions are now possible.
Box-Box have still to be done. (So Only one Box allowed Wink )
New functionalities for Vector3, Real and Matrix.
Matrix3 and Matrix4 extend now Matrix, that extends Real.

:: JOODE :: Xith3d :: OdeJava ::
Offline kitfox

Junior Member




Java games rock!


« Reply #144 - Posted 2005-11-07 06:41:51 »

I've fleshed out the Mass class, so all of the ODE mass functions are now available.  I even included two extras that aren't part of the original spec.

I've also fleshed out Vector4 and Matrix3 a bit.  Mostly convenience  functions to make it easier to get and set them.
Offline t_larkworthy

Senior Member


Medals: 1
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Google App Engine Rocks!


« Reply #145 - Posted 2005-11-07 11:20:36 »

great stuff guys. I am having a look at OBBs at the moment. I dunno if I will be able to implement them. There are lots of bits missing that we need for to joode to work like determining the surface normal and depth etc. I might be able to work it out.

Runesketch: an Online CCG built on Google App Engine where players draw their cards and trade. Fight, draw or trade yourself to success.
Offline t_larkworthy

Senior Member


Medals: 1
Projects: 1


Google App Engine Rocks!


« Reply #146 - Posted 2005-11-07 16:04:40 »

Hello guys. Can people stick to 1.4 syntax please, unless people want the debate opened again. In Box.java there was a strange @overide annotation which is 1.5 syntax, and in Mass there is an enum.

Runesketch: an Online CCG built on Google App Engine where players draw their cards and trade. Fight, draw or trade yourself to success.
Offline arne

Senior Member




money is the worst drug- we should not let it rule


« Reply #147 - Posted 2005-11-07 17:17:22 »

sorry for the @override eclipse does that automatically - I forgot to change the Compiler level to 1.4 - that's now done.

:: JOODE :: Xith3d :: OdeJava ::
Offline kitfox

Junior Member




Java games rock!


« Reply #148 - Posted 2005-11-07 23:10:21 »

Looks like the jar files currently in the repository are uploaded incorrectly.  Tom, could you please replace the current jars in the repository with versions that aren't uploaded as text files?

Here's a link to a bug report regarding the bad jar downloads:

http://www.netbeans.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=68193
Offline arne

Senior Member




money is the worst drug- we should not let it rule


« Reply #149 - Posted 2005-11-08 18:17:52 »

will the one, who has created that enum in net.java.dev.joode.body.Mass please change it back to 1.4 syntax, please? I haven't used enums, so I don't know what "special effects" you wanted to have with it. If it is only a way for error-messages, I'd suggest to throw an Exception - or if the error isn't that serious to simply print to System.err

:: JOODE :: Xith3d :: OdeJava ::
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