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  LWJGL OSX 'soon'  (Read 4884 times)
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Offline gregorypierce

Senior Duke




I come upon thee like the blue screen of death....


« Posted 2003-05-18 00:15:06 »

Maybe 2 weeks from now.

http://www.gregorypierce.com

She builds, she builds oh man
When she links, she links I go crazy
Cause she looks like good code but she's really a hack
I think I'll run upstairs and grab a snack!
Offline psiegel

Junior Duke




Adamant about gaming.


« Reply #1 - Posted 2003-05-18 02:11:49 »

Quite exciting to hear!  I'm curious, do you have more specific info on what the minimum OS required to run will be?  

Paul

Paul Siegel
Adamant Games, Inc.
http://www.adamantgames.com
Offline bedelf

Junior Duke




Are you suggesting coconuts migrate?


« Reply #2 - Posted 2003-05-18 05:31:51 »

What's an OSX? Is that a brand of toaster?

:)
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Offline princec

JGO Kernel


Medals: 404
Projects: 3
Exp: 16 years


Eh? Who? What? ... Me?


« Reply #3 - Posted 2003-05-18 09:09:09 »

Oooh! Let me know when you need a version of Alien Flux to test it with.

Except of course I don't know anything about any Apple OpenGL extensions, so it might not run as well as it should...

Cas Smiley

Offline gregorypierce

Senior Duke




I come upon thee like the blue screen of death....


« Reply #4 - Posted 2003-05-18 14:19:31 »

Apple has wildly different extensions that your average GL (one of the other reasons for that interface layer I was talking about) so if you require any particular extensions or if not having them would cause an error - it may not run at all.

At a minimum you will need to be running 10.2.6 to catch some bug fixes in the Apple OpenGL code and get OpenGL 1.3 compliance. Machine wise that depends entirely on the content. I'm using a TiBook 667Mhz with 512MB.

The more immediate holdup in input controllers since Apple absolutely screwed up big time when writing that API. As such the OSX will rely on a 3rd party library to enumerate mice, keyboards, gamepads, etc. This library is open source and will be shipped in Framework form with the release.

Mr. Palmer is already stepping up to the plate to handle future releases.

http://www.gregorypierce.com

She builds, she builds oh man
When she links, she links I go crazy
Cause she looks like good code but she's really a hack
I think I'll run upstairs and grab a snack!
Offline princec

JGO Kernel


Medals: 404
Projects: 3
Exp: 16 years


Eh? Who? What? ... Me?


« Reply #5 - Posted 2003-05-18 21:49:41 »

'sok, the only WGL extension I even check for is EXT_swap_interval but it would be nice to have the Apple extensions checked into the core library!

Cas Smiley

Offline swpalmer

JGO Coder


Exp: 12 years


Where's the Kaboom?


« Reply #6 - Posted 2003-05-19 00:45:13 »

Cas,  I could use that test version of Alien Flux..  I'm going to be spending most of tomorrow (Monday) trying to get things working.  It is slow going for me because I'm new to Macs and OpenGL... but I can still track down a bogus pointer.. that's basically all I have been doing so far..  running the example code and fixing the crashes that happen.

Offline ap_kelly

Junior Duke




Java rocks!


« Reply #7 - Posted 2003-05-19 01:45:20 »

I'am looking forward very much to the day when I can code OpenGL games for Mac, Linux and Windows using Java; that day is almost here.

Write once; Run anywhere!!!!

Keep up the good work.

Andy.

Offline princec

JGO Kernel


Medals: 404
Projects: 3
Exp: 16 years


Eh? Who? What? ... Me?


« Reply #8 - Posted 2003-05-19 08:28:51 »

When you get the examples all working drop me a line and I'll try and get you a beta together. I've got about 11 days to finish the game :/

Cas Smiley

Offline Matzon

JGO Knight


Medals: 19
Projects: 1


I'm gonna wring your pants!


« Reply #9 - Posted 2003-05-19 12:43:25 »

Regarding OAL - the binaries on Creatives site doesn't work? - I mean, why compile it from cvs, if the binary is fine?
http://developer.creative.com/landing.asp?cat=1&sub=31&top=38

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Offline princec

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Medals: 404
Projects: 3
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« Reply #10 - Posted 2003-05-19 13:01:27 »

Yeah, and it's worth mentioning we can't get the win32 CVS source to compile into a working OpenAL either. Something we should one day hassle them with but for now as long as they're doing it for us we don't care.

Cas Smiley

Offline swpalmer

JGO Coder


Exp: 12 years


Where's the Kaboom?


« Reply #11 - Posted 2003-05-19 19:26:59 »

HELP!

For some reason I'm getting NULL returned from glGetString with Mac OS X.   Does anyone have any idea why that would be and what I can do about it?

I'm trying to run the examples to test the OS X port and am stuck with this problem.  It may be an OS X specifc thing that I've got buggered up in the port, but the glXXX function pointers seem to be sane...

Ideas??

Scott

Offline swpalmer

JGO Coder


Exp: 12 years


Where's the Kaboom?


« Reply #12 - Posted 2003-05-20 02:23:05 »

OK fixed that one.. GL context was bogus...  getting there... slowly...

Offline Matzon

JGO Knight


Medals: 19
Projects: 1


I'm gonna wring your pants!


« Reply #13 - Posted 2003-05-20 03:10:08 »

hehe - nice to see progress!

Offline swpalmer

JGO Coder


Exp: 12 years


Where's the Kaboom?


« Reply #14 - Posted 2003-05-20 12:21:26 »

I see polygons!

Ok, so they are crappy flickering messes of polygons.. but hey! Progress!...

The Polygon example puts up a screen with a triangle and a square, but the textures are flickering madly with white/grey garbage.

Just think, when Mr. Pierce gets the input going I might have a way to make them go away too Smiley

I suspect this weekend the OS X port will make a significant jump.

Offline gregorypierce

Senior Duke




I come upon thee like the blue screen of death....


« Reply #15 - Posted 2003-05-21 00:19:55 »

HID is a complete and total clusterf**k. Its an elegant design, but so complicated that it obfuscates itself Smiley One thing about the OSX port that will be different is that it will function at the input level differently than the sample code we're testing expects.

Just as there is no guarantee of resolutions or graphics cards features, there is absolutely no guarantee of input devices existing or having certain features. By this what I mean is that while its nice to assume that there is always a keyboard and/or mouse attached, they are by no means guaranteed and the sample code should check for the existence of these devices and throw an exception in the event that they aren't present.... especially in the age of wireless controllers Smiley

http://www.gregorypierce.com

She builds, she builds oh man
When she links, she links I go crazy
Cause she looks like good code but she's really a hack
I think I'll run upstairs and grab a snack!
Offline Matzon

JGO Knight


Medals: 19
Projects: 1


I'm gonna wring your pants!


« Reply #16 - Posted 2003-05-21 03:47:35 »

Quote
One thing about the OSX port that will be different is that it will function at the input level differently than the sample code we're testing expects
In what way?

Quote
...there is absolutely no guarantee of input devices existing or having certain features.
Yup, all code should never expect devices to be available - I will update the examples.

Offline gregorypierce

Senior Duke




I come upon thee like the blue screen of death....


« Reply #17 - Posted 2003-05-21 17:12:52 »

While I'm trying to make it more friendly to LWJGL - the Apple folks kinda got it right. There is a concept of a HID manager. Every device that wants to consider it self as a HID announces that intention to the OS. These can then be enumerated, configured and polled. This is a little different than creating a new keyboard and mouse explicitly as opposed to just asking the system for devices and expect it to cooperate. While the OSX HID API itself is obfuscated - the premise behind it is actually quite sound.

http://www.gregorypierce.com

She builds, she builds oh man
When she links, she links I go crazy
Cause she looks like good code but she's really a hack
I think I'll run upstairs and grab a snack!
Offline Matzon

JGO Knight


Medals: 19
Projects: 1


I'm gonna wring your pants!


« Reply #18 - Posted 2003-05-21 18:29:57 »

This sounds a lot like Direct X and enumerating devices. However nice as this seems - when I want a keyboard, I want a keyboard!

When you create the Controller, Direct X is actually queried for all Controller compatable devices, and the first one available is returned - likewise with Keyboard and Mouse, we just say to DirectInput that we want the device of type 'GUID_SysMouse' or 'GUID_SysKeyboard' - this ofcourse *can* fail. Most of the sample code (if not all) wrongly assumes that creating a mouse or keyboard will never fail. This will be fixed in a near future.

Offline princec

JGO Kernel


Medals: 404
Projects: 3
Exp: 16 years


Eh? Who? What? ... Me?


« Reply #19 - Posted 2003-05-21 21:00:04 »

The OSX way sounds identical to the way we do it in DirectX.

The Java API is very simple, which is exactly what we want. If there's no Keyboard, a call to Keyboard.create() simply throws an Exception and says so. Likewise Mouse and Controller.

Cas Smiley

Offline gregorypierce

Senior Duke




I come upon thee like the blue screen of death....


« Reply #20 - Posted 2003-05-22 16:38:04 »

Not quite. DirectInput device enumeration DEVICECAPs and the information you get back from the HID Manager are wildly different. There is an intersection in what you can get/do, but there is definitely a lot more refinement in the Apple HID Manager. What's I've decided to do is leave the keyboard and mouse as they are. Since that's the way its desired for LWJGL to function, I'll let you guys sort out the myriad details involved with differing keyboard types and key codes on OSX. I'll focus on getting the contoller support up to snuff so you can find controllers. Any device caps which interset with what OSX returns will be filled in and the others will be null.

http://www.gregorypierce.com

She builds, she builds oh man
When she links, she links I go crazy
Cause she looks like good code but she's really a hack
I think I'll run upstairs and grab a snack!
Offline gregorypierce

Senior Duke




I come upon thee like the blue screen of death....


« Reply #21 - Posted 2003-05-23 02:12:02 »

After working through a double buffering issue with Mr. Palmer, he reports that cool stuff is showing up on the screen and so forth. Input devices are maybe a weekend a way. They are already working in the new framework so I just need to coax that architecture to work with LWJGL.

http://www.gregorypierce.com

She builds, she builds oh man
When she links, she links I go crazy
Cause she looks like good code but she's really a hack
I think I'll run upstairs and grab a snack!
Offline Matzon

JGO Knight


Medals: 19
Projects: 1


I'm gonna wring your pants!


« Reply #22 - Posted 2003-05-23 03:33:01 »

Shocked

Grin

Offline dcoder

Junior Newbie





« Reply #23 - Posted 2003-05-23 17:18:57 »

Howdy (again)!

Is there anything I can do to assist in the OSX port of LWJGL?

I was trying to build using the autogen.sh sources, but when I ran ./configure, I got the following:

...
checking for JAVA_HOME... /Library/Java/Home
checking for X... no
checking for main in -lX11... no
configure: error: X11 is required
bash-2.05a$

So, I'm guessing that a "quartz-like" build from the command line isn't (yet) possible. I found the ProjectBuilder project, but when trying to build it (from the command-line, again), I got "Error: couldn't load project /Users/daniel/GameDev/LWJGL/LWJGL/src/native/projb/lwjglOSX/lwjglOSX.pbproj" which may just be an issue because I'm not at my machine, but rather doing this over an ssh tunnel from my office.

-daniel

There are 10 types of people in this world...
those who understand binary, and those who don't.
Offline gregorypierce

Senior Duke




I come upon thee like the blue screen of death....


« Reply #24 - Posted 2003-05-23 17:33:11 »

Having someone handle the whole build script thing is something that appeals to us greatly as swpalmer and I (maybe me moreso) hate Project Builder and its nutty environment. If you want to help out with that, or if you're interested in diving into the OSX source tree - feel free! Send either of us a private message and you can join us on AIM as we finish this puppy up.

http://www.gregorypierce.com

She builds, she builds oh man
When she links, she links I go crazy
Cause she looks like good code but she's really a hack
I think I'll run upstairs and grab a snack!
Offline Matzon

JGO Knight


Medals: 19
Projects: 1


I'm gonna wring your pants!


« Reply #25 - Posted 2003-05-23 19:13:44 »

Ultimately I would like to fix the whole ANT script to do all of the work (relying on external scripts to build the native parts) - I just need to get myself motivated for it, coz it will most likely be a bit messy... But each time we do a distribution, I am reminded that we neeeeeed to make the ant script better  :-/

/me tries to motivate himself  Roll Eyes

Offline princec

JGO Kernel


Medals: 404
Projects: 3
Exp: 16 years


Eh? Who? What? ... Me?


« Reply #26 - Posted 2003-05-24 09:30:30 »

Hm, actually Brian I am in desperate need of two ant scripts for Alien Flux...

Cas Smiley

Offline swpalmer

JGO Coder


Exp: 12 years


Where's the Kaboom?


« Reply #27 - Posted 2003-05-24 13:53:30 »

I agree that some cleanup is needed.  I also would like to see everything built by invoking Ant.   If I wasn't so new to the Mac programming environment I would take a crack at doing a makefile or something.  
<rant> I generally HATE Unix for how much it sucks in this area ./configure is a crock of sh*t..  not to mention that it takes longer to configure than it does to actually compile half the time... assuming it works at all.  Very often 3/4 through the configure it bails because of some odd-ball library that is not installed or not where it is expected etc.. then i go off to install it.. which may mean compiling it.. which leads to it's ./configure maybe not working.. then even once it is installed, the original ./configure still can't figure it out etc...  a total bloody mess quite frankly...   One thing I like about the Macs is how they are basically 'all the same'.. Having one vendor for OS, and hardware may keep the prices up, but it also keeps the frustration level down... </rant>

On the HID front I just purchased a USB game controller for my powerbook.. an iShock II... should be good for testing when we get the Mac port to that level.

Does LWJGL support force-feedback controllers?  If it doesn't yet, I think it makes sense to add it as a feature for the next release.

Offline gregorypierce

Senior Duke




I come upon thee like the blue screen of death....


« Reply #28 - Posted 2003-05-25 00:44:52 »

Does it support them - yes. Unfortunately there is no API semantic in the input system for actually being able to call any force feedback routines.

http://www.gregorypierce.com

She builds, she builds oh man
When she links, she links I go crazy
Cause she looks like good code but she's really a hack
I think I'll run upstairs and grab a snack!
Offline Matzon

JGO Knight


Medals: 19
Projects: 1


I'm gonna wring your pants!


« Reply #29 - Posted 2003-05-25 08:08:41 »

Regarding FF. There is a simple reason for no support - I don't have access to a FF controller, nor have I ever used one!
I have been very keen to add it though, but there were some issues with linux not supporting it - so I didn't make it high prioriy.

Quote
If it doesn't yet, I think it makes sense to add it as a feature for the next release.
Assuming I can get access to one, fine by me - I was just let to believe that we should stall on the features for the next release, as to let the  OS X version get up to par?

As for ant scripts, I will be looking into this ASAP, however we still need native buildscripts to build the native parts. And we need to figure out how to deal with dependencies for those native scripts.

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