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  Mac deployment options?  (Read 2628 times)
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Offline baegsi

Senior Newbie




Java games rock!


« Posted 2005-08-27 09:45:21 »

Hi there,

deploying a Java game on Windows has following options:
1.- Compiling it into native form
2.- Including the vm
3.- Relying on existing VM installation
(and okay Webstart, that I skip ;-) )

I'm a complete Mac agnostic, so I'm wondering what is the best way to deploy a Java game on a Mac? I *heard* that VM installations on Mac are more prevalent, so option 3 may viable, but I really don't know. Or are Java2Mac OS native compiler available?

Many thanks

Offline blahblahblahh

JGO Coder


Medals: 1


http://t-machine.org


« Reply #1 - Posted 2005-08-27 10:58:58 »

1. webstart, because you cannot get a mac without webstart already being installed
2. mac .app bundle (c.f. recent threads using search function, swpalmer is the expert on this, but he's posted links to the step-by-step guidelines on how to make them more than once, so it's easy enough to find out yourself)

If you want to be really fancy, distribute a .dmg containing a .app bundle.

malloc will be first against the wall when the revolution comes...
Offline blahblahblahh

JGO Coder


Medals: 1


http://t-machine.org


« Reply #2 - Posted 2005-08-27 10:59:40 »

PS It's not even possible to "include a VM". You can't. They don't exist. One is built-in to the OS, that's all.

malloc will be first against the wall when the revolution comes...
Games published by our own members! Check 'em out!
Legends of Yore - The Casual Retro Roguelike
Offline princec

JGO Kernel


Medals: 369
Projects: 3
Exp: 16 years


Eh? Who? What? ... Me?


« Reply #3 - Posted 2005-08-27 14:55:40 »

Distribute it as a .zip file like I do, which seems to work a treat.

Cas Smiley

Offline baegsi

Senior Newbie




Java games rock!


« Reply #4 - Posted 2005-08-27 17:05:01 »

Distribute it as a .zip file like I do, which seems to work a treat.
Do you mean as pure Java?
Offline princec

JGO Kernel


Medals: 369
Projects: 3
Exp: 16 years


Eh? Who? What? ... Me?


« Reply #5 - Posted 2005-08-27 18:52:28 »

Yes. On the Mac you've got Java built-in pretty much universally. Webstart is crap in many ways for the sorts of things you want to do so don't bother with it.

Cas Smiley

Offline erikd

JGO Ninja


Medals: 16
Projects: 4
Exp: 14 years


Maximumisness


« Reply #6 - Posted 2005-08-28 13:29:27 »

Judging from the logs from JEmu2, it seems that deployment using JWS didn't fail even once on MacOSX. So AFAIK, JWS works pretty well on Mac.

Offline princec

JGO Kernel


Medals: 369
Projects: 3
Exp: 16 years


Eh? Who? What? ... Me?


« Reply #7 - Posted 2005-08-28 14:13:32 »

It works but everybody hates it when it comes to buying stuff and I think baegsi's got his eye on a commercial venture.

Cas Smiley

Offline baegsi

Senior Newbie




Java games rock!


« Reply #8 - Posted 2005-08-28 17:34:50 »

That's right, selling via Webstart seems impossible to me, at least currently.

Another question: what Java version is prevalent on Mac? 1.3, 1.4, 1.5?
Offline blahblahblahh

JGO Coder


Medals: 1


http://t-machine.org


« Reply #9 - Posted 2005-08-28 18:02:30 »

1.5, I suspect nearly everyone has it (because you have to have it if you want the bugfixes for your OS!) - but they have to pay for it, so I guess there may be many who are too stingy?

malloc will be first against the wall when the revolution comes...
Games published by our own members! Check 'em out!
Legends of Yore - The Casual Retro Roguelike
Offline baegsi

Senior Newbie




Java games rock!


« Reply #10 - Posted 2005-08-28 18:19:33 »

...but they have to pay for it...
Really? Why is that?
Offline blahblahblahh

JGO Coder


Medals: 1


http://t-machine.org


« Reply #11 - Posted 2005-08-28 19:06:57 »

Apple's revenue model includes selling some cheapo commodity apps, some gimmicks (Dashboard), and "all the bugfixes we haven't given you so far" as an "OS upgrade" for $50 or so (maybe more if you can't buy in bulk, can't remember the individual prices) every year and a half / 2 years. I suppose if it's what they use to fund the bugfixing then that's cool.

That includes Java 5. Whether it was considered a commodity app, a gimmick, or a bugfix I leave to your imagination Wink Tongue

malloc will be first against the wall when the revolution comes...
Offline jamdr

Senior Newbie




Java games rock!


« Reply #12 - Posted 2005-08-31 21:59:04 »

I'm not sure how accurate the information posted in this topic so far is. For one thing, Java 1.4 is built into Mac OS X 10.3 and Mac OS X 10.4, the last two releases of OS X. A very large percentage of Macs currently out there will be running one of these two versions, so you can count on 1.4 being available.

Apple doesn't sell bug fixes and doesn't sell Java 5. These are available freely from their website, or OS X users can have them automatically installed via the "Software Update" program included with the OS. Every couple of years they release a major update to OS X and sell it for $129. For example, 10.3 users would have to pay $129 to upgrade to 10.4. However 10.3.1-10.3.9 are all available freely.

Lastly, even though Apple said that Java 5 would be included with OS X 10.4, this turned out not to be the case. So most users of 10.4 "Tiger" will NOT have Java 5 on their machines yet, although it is available.
Offline blahblahblahh

JGO Coder


Medals: 1


http://t-machine.org


« Reply #13 - Posted 2005-09-01 08:41:21 »

Right now, today, on apple's site, it says Java 5 is part of OS X 10.4, and gives you a link to go buy Tiger, I quote: "Java 2 Standard Edition, version 5.0 is now available for download for Tiger users". Either some people have been downloading this on the sly (people who dont even use java) or it's also at one point autodownloaded as part of the updates system, because some of our machines have java 5 on I didnt put it there, and none of the users would have even known what it was let alone tried installing it.

Since it is impossible to get 10.4 without paying for it, and it is impossible to get java 5 without 10.4, please explain how that does NOT count as being sold java 5?

Apple doesn't sell bug fixes and doesn't sell Java 5. These are available freely from their website, or OS X users can have them automatically installed via the "Software Update" program included with the OS. Every couple of years they release a major update to OS X and sell it for $129. For example, 10.3 users would have to pay $129 to upgrade to 10.4. However 10.3.1-10.3.9 are all available freely.

The major updates seem to also have major fixes, and those fixes dont seem to be available except as part of the major updates - is this not the case?

malloc will be first against the wall when the revolution comes...
Offline swpalmer

JGO Coder




Where's the Kaboom?


« Reply #14 - Posted 2005-09-09 01:22:34 »

The point is Java 5 is not included with OS 10.4 (Tiger), it is a separate download.  Whereas Java 1.4 IS INCLUDED with the OS.

Apple's OS upgrades from 10.3 to 10.4 are huge.  At least as significant as going from Win TN , to Win 2k, to Win XP, etc.

Of course bug fixes are included with the new OS versions - just like every other software update on the planet .  Not sure what your point is with that Blah^3.

Many bugs and security issues are provided in dot-dot releases 10.4.1, 10.4.2, etc.  The major releases 10.3 to 10.4 are ALL about features.  Though some bugs are fixes with major changes that come with the major OS upgrade, and I see nothing wrong with that.  If that is what makes sense to fix things right.

Java 5 can be hacked to run in limited ways on 10.3.. but it isn't worth trying.

It is quite a stretch to say that all "free" downloads that require a specific OS that is sold are therefore also sold.  A silly statement really.

Offline William Denniss

JGO Coder


Projects: 2


Fire at will


« Reply #15 - Posted 2005-09-13 13:39:14 »

I use ant to create a .app bundle and create a .dmg disk image for Gallery Mage.  Works a treat -- BUT you must run ant on a mac to create the .dmg.

As said, JWS is also a good option.

My app is open source, so you can look at my build.xml yourself.  You can get the "jarbundler" task from: http://www.loomcom.com/jarbundler/

Check out the bottom of the readme file for links to the proggies I used to create the icons.

Will.

Offline jamdr

Senior Newbie




Java games rock!


« Reply #16 - Posted 2005-10-04 01:03:44 »

Right now, today, on apple's site, it says Java 5 is part of OS X 10.4, and gives you a link to go buy Tiger, I quote: "Java 2 Standard Edition, version 5.0 is now available for download for Tiger users". Either some people have been downloading this on the sly (people who dont even use java) or it's also at one point autodownloaded as part of the updates system, because some of our machines have java 5 on I didnt put it there, and none of the users would have even known what it was let alone tried installing it.

I know this is rather old at this point but let me make this clear: Java 5 is not included on the OS X 10.4 install discs and it is NOT automatically downloaded by Software Update on any version of OS X. Thus, the ONLY way any OS X users are going to have Java 5 on their machines is if they go to the developer section of Apple's website and download and install Java 5 themselves. The latest release that is automatically installed by Software Update is 1.4.2. I think the reason for this is because Java 5 for OS X is still considered "under development".
Offline oNyx

JGO Coder


Medals: 2


pixels! :x


« Reply #17 - Posted 2005-10-04 02:58:32 »

I'll also go the zip/app-bundle path. You can even create the icns file under windows. See this thread for details:

http://forums.indiegamer.com/showthread.php?t=2774

The result looks n feels pretty native (so I've heard).

弾幕 ☆ @mahonnaiseblog
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