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  Looking for people, that are interested in wrapping Direct3D for Java  (Read 5269 times)
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Offline cYaONE

Senior Newbie





« Posted 2005-07-26 11:45:17 »

Hi,

i'm currently working on a Direct3D-Wrapper (not the whole DirectX, that would be senseless, because DX is platformspecific and i just want to provide a renderer alternative).
I've already implemented the basic stuff (like vectors, matrices, quaternions, planes ...) and now i'm looking for people, that are interested in helping me to write this wrapper.

As I already said: I don't want to make a platform independent library like JOGL, but just a alternative for windows user.

I'm looking forward to read your answers Wink

PS: I want to use Managed DirectX as the template
Offline Orangy Tang

JGO Kernel


Medals: 56
Projects: 11


Monkey for a head


« Reply #1 - Posted 2005-07-26 11:49:38 »


I'm looking forward to read your answers Wink

Use C#?

[ TriangularPixels.com - Play Growth Spurt, Rescue Squad and Snowman Village ] [ Rebirth - game resource library ]
Offline cYaONE

Senior Newbie





« Reply #2 - Posted 2005-07-26 11:58:21 »


Even if .NET is called platform independent, there are certain parts in the class library, that are designed platform dependent - for example the System.PlatformID enumeration: Win32NT, Win32S, Win32Windows and WinCE are the only possibilities - and all of them are Microsoft OSs. Of course there are workarounds for this kind of problems. But i like the fact, to write a program and run it anywhere without problems (which you have with mono currently).

But: Back 2 topic now Smiley
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Offline Orangy Tang

JGO Kernel


Medals: 56
Projects: 11


Monkey for a head


« Reply #3 - Posted 2005-07-26 12:21:19 »

But if you're using D3D, you're already locked to windows, so why not use a language which actually has proper support for DX?

[ TriangularPixels.com - Play Growth Spurt, Rescue Squad and Snowman Village ] [ Rebirth - game resource library ]
Offline princec

JGO Kernel


Medals: 369
Projects: 3
Exp: 16 years


Eh? Who? What? ... Me?


« Reply #4 - Posted 2005-07-26 12:35:18 »

...because it's perfectly reasonable to want to use Java, which is a nice platform on Windows alone let alone all the others. Ha, ok, OSX and Linux.

This would be a great thing to do really if it gets more Win32 only developers interested in using Java to develop games. So good luck in your hunt for assistance!


Cas Smiley

Offline cYaONE

Senior Newbie





« Reply #5 - Posted 2005-07-26 12:41:06 »

But if you're using D3D, you're already locked to windows, so why not use a language which actually has proper support for DX?

... I don't want to make a platform independent library like JOGL, but just a alternative for windows user. ...
Offline darkprophet

Senior Member




Go Go Gadget Arms


« Reply #6 - Posted 2005-07-26 13:18:36 »

so you want the users of your engine to code two rendering paths, DX for windows, OpenGL for linux and mac? Even then, for any good engine, your going to have to deal with shaders anytime soon. With OpenGL you got GLSL, and you have to code the same effect in HLSL?...

I think thats asking alot from any viable engine...

DP

Friends don't let friends make MMORPGs.

Blog | Volatile-Engine
Offline cYaONE

Senior Newbie





« Reply #7 - Posted 2005-07-26 13:40:55 »

so you want the users of your engine to code two rendering paths, DX for windows, OpenGL for linux and mac? Even then, for any good engine, your going to have to deal with shaders anytime soon. With OpenGL you got GLSL, and you have to code the same effect in HLSL?...

I think thats asking alot from any viable engine...

DP

For API-independent shaders there is NVidia's CG.
For my engine i will use JOGL, LWJGL's OpenGL and JDirect3D as selectable plugins and my shaders will be written in CG.
For Direct3D of course, you will be able to write specific HLSL shaders.
Offline darkprophet

Senior Member




Go Go Gadget Arms


« Reply #8 - Posted 2005-07-26 18:15:36 »

so for your engine your going to learn OpenGL and DirectX simultaneously and write efficient and optimisied initalisers and renderers for both right? While also finding the time to make a Cg plugin for LWJGL to use and learning Cg and coding shaders in it....

Wow, your a very ambitious guy...good luck Smiley

DP

Friends don't let friends make MMORPGs.

Blog | Volatile-Engine
Offline princec

JGO Kernel


Medals: 369
Projects: 3
Exp: 16 years


Eh? Who? What? ... Me?


« Reply #9 - Posted 2005-07-26 18:23:51 »

I hope he just sticks to wrapping up DX properly and leaves it at that. There are plenty of other people who have already written "engines" and scenegraphs who could make use of it instead.

This is how the LWJGL started off after all.

Cas Smiley

Games published by our own members! Check 'em out!
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Offline zparticle

Senior Member




Thick As A Brick


« Reply #10 - Posted 2005-07-26 18:45:16 »

Once again we see folks arguing against something that will have zero impact on them.  cYaONE is looking for people to help out not asking if it should be done.

Offline princec

JGO Kernel


Medals: 369
Projects: 3
Exp: 16 years


Eh? Who? What? ... Me?


« Reply #11 - Posted 2005-07-26 20:15:55 »

Zakly. And if I had the time I'd help out too as I'd like to have a DX based SPGL I could use for Win32 machines without OpenGL. And I'd like to see some Xbox action.

Cas Smiley

Offline Raghar

Junior Member




Ue ni taete 'ru hitomi ni kono mi wa dou utsuru


« Reply #12 - Posted 2005-07-26 20:52:18 »

Hi,

i'm currently working on a Direct3D-Wrapper (not the whole DirectX, that would be senseless, because DX is platformspecific and i just want to provide a renderer alternative).
I've already implemented the basic stuff (like vectors, matrices, quaternions, planes ...) and now i'm looking for people, that are interested in helping me to write this wrapper.

As I already said: I don't want to make a platform independent library like JOGL, but just a alternative for windows user.


Work for one person for 1/4 year. You might like to create some sort of converter like JOGL use.  Also it would be reasonable to add support for 9 up.
BTW DirectX 10 is shit. It looks to me like it want to take away representation of hardware and produce something like mickerosoft abstraction of it.

And yes you'd probably see why I'm saying that COM is a shit.
Offline Tomas

Junior Member




Agency9


« Reply #13 - Posted 2005-07-27 00:07:24 »

I don't have any time to help but I’d definitely try it out when it is released.

Good luck with the project .
// Tomas Smiley

CTO Agency9
Offline nonnus29

Senior Member




Giving Java a second chance after ludumdare fiasco


« Reply #14 - Posted 2005-07-27 01:11:38 »

There was a directx wrapper back in the j++ days (try googling for 'directj').  I've never actually found it for download on hte intarweb though.

Offline William Denniss

JGO Coder


Projects: 2


Fire at will


« Reply #15 - Posted 2005-07-27 04:51:49 »

I agree, best to concentrate on one thing at a time. 

A direct3D wrapper would be useful IMHO, though not 100% nessesary.

If you wrote one, I would love to see a Xith3D renderer that can render to it (we can already do two flavours of OpenGL).

Will.

Offline princec

JGO Kernel


Medals: 369
Projects: 3
Exp: 16 years


Eh? Who? What? ... Me?


« Reply #16 - Posted 2005-07-27 10:11:48 »

If that happened I'd jump on Xith like a shot and try my hand at a true 3D game.

Cas Smiley

Offline cYaONE

Senior Newbie





« Reply #17 - Posted 2005-07-27 16:22:34 »

One question: Do you want the JDirectX-API to be in Java Code Style or should i keep it for compatibility? Java Style would be setTexture() instead of SetTexture() for example.
Offline erikd

JGO Ninja


Medals: 16
Projects: 4
Exp: 14 years


Maximumisness


« Reply #18 - Posted 2005-07-27 16:31:04 »

Java Style please or I'll think SetTexture is a class :-)

Offline whome

Junior Member




Carte Noir Java


« Reply #19 - Posted 2005-07-30 09:26:30 »

FYI,
I was looking for javaExeWrapper a week ago and internet path took me to this site.
JWindow + 6DX (now discontinued) projects:
http://www.rolemaker.dk/JWindows/index.htm
http://www.rolemaker.dk/JWindows/6DX/index.htm
Offline Tomas

Junior Member




Agency9


« Reply #20 - Posted 2005-08-01 11:38:15 »

definitely java style Smiley

CTO Agency9
Offline William Denniss

JGO Coder


Projects: 2


Fire at will


« Reply #21 - Posted 2005-08-02 05:08:50 »

definitally java style - it's a Java API you are writing.

We're smart enough to translate any DirectX method names to their Java equivilent Smiley

Are you going to make this a java.net project?  Have you chosen a license?

Cheers,

Will.

Offline cYaONE

Senior Newbie





« Reply #22 - Posted 2005-08-02 10:53:30 »

Are you going to make this a java.net project?  Have you chosen a license?

Yes, i definitly want it to be a java.net project.
It will be open source, but I haven't chosen a license yet, maybe GPL or LGPL ...
Offline princec

JGO Kernel


Medals: 369
Projects: 3
Exp: 16 years


Eh? Who? What? ... Me?


« Reply #23 - Posted 2005-08-02 13:57:42 »

BSD please Smiley

Cas Smiley

Offline Tomas

Junior Member




Agency9


« Reply #24 - Posted 2005-08-02 14:22:51 »

Go for BSD please Smiley ... or else we can't use it.

// Tomas

CTO Agency9
Offline Jaeden

Senior Newbie




There is no knowledge that is not power.


« Reply #25 - Posted 2005-08-02 14:39:53 »

What about going the other way, and writing a "port" of DirectX? It would be a lot more work, but a lot more useful to people familiar with DX. By that, I mean generate the same class names as DX, with the same function calls, and have the work inside done by something lower-level like J3D (or perhaps even JOGL)?

In this way users of Dx could bring their knowledge to bear in Java projects to similar, but xplatform, results.
Offline Tomas

Junior Member




Agency9


« Reply #26 - Posted 2005-08-02 14:43:46 »

The biggest point of having Direct3D instead of  OpenGL is that a lot of windows users don't have OpenGL drivers installed.

CTO Agency9
Offline Jaeden

Senior Newbie




There is no knowledge that is not power.


« Reply #27 - Posted 2005-08-02 15:32:42 »


I'm not sure I agree with that.. Don't have the LATEST OpenGL, perhaps...

That notwithstanding, the Dx-emulating wrapper could be done over something other than JOGL, as I stated...
Offline cYaONE

Senior Newbie





« Reply #28 - Posted 2005-08-02 15:51:43 »

OK, i will go for BSD Smiley
Offline arne

Senior Member




money is the worst drug- we should not let it rule


« Reply #29 - Posted 2005-08-02 22:42:52 »

hasn't got Java3D direct3D support? I believe I there were different versions for OpenGL and Direct3D at download. I'm not using Java3D anymore and that was maybe a year back, so it may well be possible for my information to be deprecated now. Maybe the source for that is public now after Sun made it a project at java.net (But I can well imagine Sun to have kept back exactly these parts of the code), so it might be a good idea to check that out.

:: JOODE :: Xith3d :: OdeJava ::
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