Java to be on new DVD players

[zparticle]

http://news.com.com/Java+to+appear+in+next-gen+DVD+players/2100-1046_3-5766409.html

[Mark Thornton]

Unfortunately only on the Blu-ray variant and not (so far) on the HD DVD alternative.

[Bombadil]

Amazing. Good news.

Andy details on what kind of JVM? J2SE, J2ME, ... ? 1.4, 1.5, 1.x ?

Well, of course we need a JOGL enabled Java for those players... ;-)  Just kidding.

Games published by our own members! Check 'em out!

[Falken]

From what I can gather it will use the Personal Basis Profile, but I'm not sure which version.  (PBP-1.0 is lightly based on Java 1.3, whilst PBP-1.1 has some Java 1.4.1 additions).

It will also be interesting if they allow the JVM to be updated via the network. There are several upcoming JSRs based on OSGi which would enable them to do this, so it's certainly possible.  If Sony wants to make the PS3 futureproof, and ensure Blu-ray wins, then enabling Blu-ray players to update their JVM would make perfect sense?  (does anybody know if all Blu-ray players must be network enabled?)

[Falken]

I'm trying to get my head around this whole Blu-ray business. Here's my understanding of it. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

There will be 3 varieties of Blu-ray disc: BD-ROM (read only), BD-R (recordable) and BD-RE (rewritable).

Only BD-ROM will play Java content (known as BD-J applications). Unfortunately only licensed manufacturers can burn these discs, so no chance of us making indie PS3 titles in Java. 

The good news is that companies like Disney will commission Java programmers to make games, and other interactive features, to be embedded in their movie DVD's.  Quite how advanced these games will be is anyone's guess. And that is the big question - just how advanced can they be?

The discs will run on a variety of home entertainment platforms, inc. computers, digital set-top boxes and PS3.  On some systems the games will be controlled via an infra-red remote control, whilst others will use a devoted game controller.  Will these games be able to take advantage of extra capabilities in the higher-end systems, or will they all be designed for the minimum spec?

Anybody have any thoughts?  I'm curious as to how advanced these games could become?  Will they be simple puzzle games? Or adventure games with 50Gb of pre-rendered movies? Or is their scope here for something far more advanced?

My wishlist would be:
- They include the Java OpenGL-ES bindings (JSR-239)
- That the JVM can be remotely updated. (JSR-232)

[izzy]

Eight months later there is a bit more known about BD-J and Blu-ray.
Not a whole lot but what I've heard (from people on the inside of BD-J) is that:

* all Blu-ray devices will have BD-J
* the initial specs dont require network connection and reduce memory/speed requirements
  that is mostly to help keep initial costs down.  A year or two out, all machines will have net connection (might NOT be connected by consumer) and faster processors, etc.

The primary purpose for BD-J is to make better DVD menus and subtitles
That is pretty myopic, IMHO.

15+ years ago I was building CDTV titles. That was the Amiga wrapped up as a consumer device to compete with Phillips CD-i.  Big downfall of those systems was:
  - NTSC (resolution, esp of text was terrible, color choices were a royal pain)
  - very poor video playback (it was 1990 after all, quicktime and avi players were barely out of the lab)
  - poor titles.  too much 'shovel-ware': we got it elsewhere and shoveled it onto a cd for you.
Still there were some very interesting titles built... encyclopedias, cookbooks, history explorers

There isnt a BD-J developers kit yet. The standard is still a bit in flux (as i understand it)
But when has that stopped hard core Java people?

So what will the Java community do with a (limited) java engine that also provides:
 - 25-50 Gb resources (libs, data)
 - internet connection (may not be active)
 - api for sync'd audio, video and 2 channels of overlay graphics
 - at HD resolution (at least for video.  overlays may be reduced res)

not all boxes will have PS3 graphics, and BD-J wont necessarily recognize that engine & enhanced capabilities.


jerry

[kylix999]

do they plan for example to support such api like m3g for basic 3d functions for that future next gen dvd-players?

and is there some example of next gen player that we could read about in internet, some specifications etc?

since next gen dvd players probably will become very popular , becouse they will be some kind of home entertaiment center and will be cheapier than similiar products of microsoft etc, and will not require so much knowledge of computer use, it will be a product for ALL people not only for gamers and young also for seniors etc. so it is a huge oportunity for sun and all java deveopers. Such products will probably become very popular in developing countries like China etc, where today many peolpe use special tv-box to connect to internet and watch websites on tv... So there is a place for jvm  and maybe in some time it will be bulit in for that dvd-players.
I hope that they also will have opengl-es support so we could make not only simple 2d games.

I think it is one of the most intresting java news (june 2005 why i have not heard about it earlier)

if you will have more info about this topic please post it to this forum

thanks zparticle, izzy and falken

[swpalmer]

The real benefit which is listed above as "better DVD menus" is the interactive games and toys that are often found on the "extras" of many DVDs.. E.g. a potion mixing game on Harry Potter. 
If you know anything about the VM on a normal DVD player you will realize the sort of hell that you have to go through if you are programming at that level) even to have a DVD return to the last menu you were on when it finishes playing a clip.  Essentially that seems to be the basic logic used to implement most DVD games... simply navigating a bunch of menu screens with a little fancy logic and a random number generator to fiddle with the route through the "menus".
Just having ANY form of Java will hopefully improve that situation considerably.  Though I can almost guarantee that they will screw it up