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 21 
 on: 2015-06-30 14:49:13 
Started by CommanderKeith - Last post by princec
Exactly - it's a massive clusterf**k.

Except for the small problem that it's a substantially massive API that took millions of dollars to develop, and if they were your millions of dollars, what would you do? Especially if whoever had copied them (they didn't just appear out of nowhere, remember!) has gone on to make billions on top of it?

Cas Smiley

 22 
 on: 2015-06-30 14:37:49 
Started by Ivan Vinski - Last post by Springrbua
I can't look at the game you linked to right now, but is it a usual Bomberman-game? Isn't bombermans movement tilebased to? I mean in Bomberman you can't stop movement between 2 tiles or am i wrong here?

 23 
 on: 2015-06-30 14:37:30 
Started by CommanderKeith - Last post by noctarius
If Oracle wins this, that means that Joe Programmer can no longer implement a class called ArrayList that uses the same method names as the existing ArrayList class, without infringing on Oracle's copyright. Whether or not Oracle will enforce this is debatable, but larger-scale open-source projects that reimplement part of the API might be pretty worried about this. And that's the part that trickles down to us measly programmers.

Right, Hazelcast for instance, that reimplements the Java Collections and Concurrency APIs in a distributed fashion would probably not be able to do so anymore without going to pay royalties to Oracle. As already said whether Oracle will enforce this or not - well that would only show the future.

 24 
 on: 2015-06-30 14:36:18 
Started by basil_ - Last post by nsigma
The good news is that the JVM uses TLS caching too;

But not AFAIK automatic thread detachment using TLS destructors, or a least it didn't, which is a shame!

DetachCurrentThread is never called; the expectation is that native threads will be few and as long-lived as the application.

That's a bit of an arbitrary viewpoint, although it might be true for the majority of use cases with LWJGL.  Using a native media library for video inter-titles is one obvious case where it might not be though, as it's likely to start a new media callback thread each time.

 25 
 on: 2015-06-30 14:34:34 
Started by CommanderKeith - Last post by noctarius
Yes, because the FSF never went after anyone for GPL violations!  Tongue

Actually there is no GPL violation. The CPE keeps the APIs (which will be linked into your program) out of the GPL necessity to redistribute your own code as GPL. It is kind of like a LGPL for the Java Standard API. The internal implementation inside the Dalvik-/Android-Runtime is no OpenJDK code but partly taken from the old Apache Harmony project (which obviously is ASL2 licensed) and partly self written by Google. So no violation at all, and the FSF hunts GPL violations down, see router vendors in the past.

 26 
 on: 2015-06-30 14:34:06 
Started by CommanderKeith - Last post by KevinWorkman
Well, now let's imagine that you spent 50 years developing a rich and complex library of code, say, in C++, and you make your living after all your hard work by licensing people to use your binaries, and in a gesture of goodwill you release the source to those binaries to allow people to see how it all works and some smartass just goes "yoink" and copies all 208 header files and starts redistributing them without so much as a by-your-leave and then goes on to make billions of dollars from it. Would you be happy about that?

It's not that simple though.

A lot of people seem to think that Android "stole" some open-source Java code. But that's not what the debate is.

The debate is whether or not an API (in other words, the JavaDoc) can be copyrighted.

Android took the Java API (the list of its classes and methods, which any developer can access) and reimplemented those classes and methods in "Android Java".

Oracle claims that the API itself is copyrighted. They aren't claiming that Android developers stole Java's implementation of those APIs- in other words, nobody is claiming that Android stole code. They're claiming that coming up with your own implementation of an API is copyright infringement.

If Oracle wins this, that means that Joe Programmer can no longer implement a class called ArrayList that uses the same method names as the existing ArrayList class, without infringing on Oracle's copyright. Whether or not Oracle will enforce this is debatable, but larger-scale open-source projects that reimplement part of the API might be pretty worried about this. And that's the part that trickles down to us measly programmers.

 27 
 on: 2015-06-30 14:33:34 
Started by CommanderKeith - Last post by J0
Question: what would concretely happen if any of the two parts won? persecutioncomplex

 28 
 on: 2015-06-30 14:21:48 
Started by CommanderKeith - Last post by nsigma
They are suing Google for copying an open source project. Seems pretty obvious to me that google is right and oracle is wrong.

Edit: Assuming that google kept to the terms of the open source license agreement, which I think they did.

Yes, because the FSF never went after anyone for GPL violations!  Tongue

If Google had actually forked off OpenJDK under the GPL w/CPE then there wouldn't be the hint of a case.  This is partly because Google wanted to control the ecosystem.  It may also be due to the lack of a time machine.

 29 
 on: 2015-06-30 14:20:14 
Started by CommanderKeith - Last post by noctarius
I can't understand how oracle can be seen as being'right'.
They are suing Google for copying an open source project. Seems pretty obvious to me that google is right and oracle is wrong.

Edit: Assuming that google kept to the terms of the open source license agreement, which I think they did.

I think the big issue here is the "GPL with Classpath Exception" which actually applies to OpenJDK. I guess with enough wish you can interpret it in a way that the API is not GPL at all. Anyways I dislike the license choice but this is more like my personal animosity to the GPL Smiley

 30 
 on: 2015-06-30 14:10:29 
Started by CommanderKeith - Last post by princec
Well, now let's imagine that you spent 50 years developing a rich and complex library of code, say, in C++, and you make your living after all your hard work by licensing people to use your binaries, and in a gesture of goodwill you release the source to those binaries to allow people to see how it all works and some smartass just goes "yoink" and copies all 208 header files and starts redistributing them without so much as a by-your-leave and then goes on to make billions of dollars from it. Would you be happy about that?

Cas Smiley

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