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 21 
 on: 2015-04-01 15:33:38 
Started by SHC - Last post by BlueChaos
Great work on this! Can't wait to see more updates.  Wink

 22 
 on: 2015-04-01 15:33:13 
Started by Ivan Vinski - Last post by Ashedragon
White text on a yellow background is unreadable. White text with a black border is readable on anything!

 23 
 on: 2015-04-01 15:24:25 
Started by Neoptolemus - Last post by gouessej
they only need to parse the JUMI format (which will be thoroughly documented) because JUMI itself will worry about the specifics of FBX, OBJ, MD2 etc.
Ok but an interchange format (like U3D, OpenGEX, xbuf, Collada) doesn't have the same constraint than a runtime asset format (GLTF). Then, you'll have to make a decision.
I talked about using your library as a source of inspiration for engines because I thought that in this case, using the abstractions of an engine reduces the overhead. Actually, you will write lots of classes that we typically find in a 3D framework or engine. In my humble opinion, as a programmer responsible for engine support in the JogAmp community, I would be reluctant to put a third party library into an engine knowing that there is a lot of duplication.

Obviously that's a big undertaking, so for now I'm just working on one format at a time. What I would like help with is understanding what the data should look like for animation. I understand the basic concepts of skeletal animation, but I could really use some help designing a data model that people will instantly recognise and is intuitive.
There is an example of model using skeletal animation here.

Then I'd just convert whatever animation system the source format uses to that bespoke design. For older formats that don't use skeletal animation (like MDL, MD2 etc.), JUMI would probably represent the keyframes as morph targets.
Take care of basing your design on something flexible enough to support several formats. Designing a "better" format to use as an intermediary is very difficult too. Collada has become very complicated, especially since its version 1.4.

PS: I also want to handle exports too. By using that single data structure, it should then be easy to reverse the process and write back into any of the supported formats.
You're right, this is what I did in JogAmp's Ardor3D Continuation to export the meshes in WaveFront OBJ. I'm just a bit worried because some projects like MeshLab and Assimp are very time consuming, lots of people work on them. JMonkeyEngine 2 supports lots of formats but some importers weren't correctly maintained. Why would you succeed in doing something that numerous motivated developers failed? I don't try to discourage you but I see some pitfalls in your plan.

To sum up, if you don't succeed in convincing the developers to use your "super" format (similar to the approach of OpenCTM), you'll have to convince them to embed your library as is (similar to the approach of Assimp). If you fail, it will still be a good candidate to implement a viewing application similar to MeshLab but you can't compete with 3D engines and frameworks developed by numerous developers except if you're a genius. In my humble opinion, sticking to something less ambitious is more viable, for example by avoiding to design a "better" format than the Khronos Group, Adobe and the others, and by keeping your library extremely lightweight so that you have at least a vanishingly small chance to convince engine maintainers to use it (a very few Java developers use their own engines in 3D applications on the long term).

Another solution consists in contributing to those middle and high level APIs instead of working on a separate library. The developers of Unlicense-lib would be very glad to get some help to support much more formats. JogAmp's Ardor3D Continuation is still compatible with ardor3d-openctm...

 24 
 on: 2015-04-01 14:45:08 
Started by Neoptolemus - Last post by Neoptolemus
Hi gouessej,

Thanks for the feedback. I didn't actually realise there were so many model libraries written in Java, I guess my Google-fu isn't as strong as I thought! My ultimate vision, so to speak, is a standalone library with no dependencies (that is very important to me as well), that will load any kind of format you can think of and present it as a single, unified and consistent structure. The idea being that for anyone writing an engine, they only need to parse the JUMI format (which will be thoroughly documented) because JUMI itself will worry about the specifics of FBX, OBJ, MD2 etc.

Obviously that's a big undertaking, so for now I'm just working on one format at a time. What I would like help with is understanding what the data should look like for animation. I understand the basic concepts of skeletal animation, but I could really use some help designing a data model that people will instantly recognise and is intuitive. Then I'd just convert whatever animation system the source format uses to that bespoke design. For older formats that don't use skeletal animation (like MDL, MD2 etc.), JUMI would probably represent the keyframes as morph targets.

PS: I also want to handle exports too. By using that single data structure, it should then be easy to reverse the process and write back into any of the supported formats.

 25 
 on: 2015-04-01 13:12:23 
Started by Neoptolemus - Last post by gouessej
Hi

A standalone JAR is enough for me especially if JUMI has no dependency, otherwise I advise you to use Maven, it would ease the use of your library.

Numerous engines support the WaveFront OBJ format and LibGDX fbx-conv supports FBX as its name implies. In my humble opinion, writing a parser for Collada is difficult and you should support a lot of formats if you want to drive your library really appealing. Assimp and OpenCTM can be good sources of inspiration. You can find some importers written in Java (MD2, MD3, MD5, LWO, ASE, 3DS, STL, PLY, Collada, Blender, Maya, BHV, MS3D, OFF, Ogre, X, ...) in Unlicense-lib, JMonkeyEngine 2 & 3, LibGDX, JogAmp's Ardor3D Continuation, Java3D, JOGL-Utils and Xith3D.

Someone else works on jassimp, maybe you could work together.

Your library can become a good source of inspiration to write importers for engines too (if you succeed Wink ). Do you plan to implement the export too (for example to convert a single frame of a MD2 into an OBJ file)?

FBX is very famous and widely used but it has no public specification, it isn't well defined, it is changing. Is it a good idea to focus on it?

Please consider supporting OpenGEX!
http://github.com/Simsilica/jogex
http://github.com/Benjamin-Dobell/libopenddl

Maybe xbuf might be useful too.

 26 
 on: 2015-04-01 12:43:23 
Started by Ask_Reply - Last post by KevinWorkman
Why are you pausing an installation and then installing something in that location while it's paused? That sounds like a recipe for disaster.

90% of problems like these can be solved by simply uninstalling and reinstalling everything. Maybe try that?

 27 
 on: 2015-04-01 12:21:06 
Started by Spasi - Last post by gouessej
looks like an implementation of Microsoft's Orleans in Java.
You're right:
Quote
is heavily inspired by the Orleans project
http://orbit.bioware.com/orbit-actor-overview.html

 28 
 on: 2015-04-01 12:14:04 
Started by gouessej - Last post by gouessej
Hi

I will upload the updated self-contained native application bundles of my game before the end of the week, it contains a very few changes:
  • The correct version of JOGL is loaded even though an older version (< 2.3.1) is installed, it's very useful under Mac
  • A subtitle is displayed during the introduction
  • The automated native library loading no longer fails in some particular cases under Windows

I have spent a lot of time in cleaning a part of the source code dealing with the factories. When it's done, I will improve the system of collision detection in order to manage much more complicated levels. I'd like to improve JFPSM too in order to extract and put each key frame into a separate file. I still hesitate in using OpenGEX instead of Collada.

 29 
 on: 2015-04-01 11:53:24 
Started by Neoptolemus - Last post by Neoptolemus
I intend to add support for skeletal animation, it's still a work in progress at the moment. My main issue is that I'm new to the technical implementation of skeletal animation, so I'm unsure how to structure the data. Any advice anyone can offer would be really appreciated, and it should help me interpret the data in the FBX file as well.

In the meantime, the bone structure is imported, so you can at least query the skeletal structure. There's a bug which is preventing the weights being imported properly so I'll fix that when I have time.

With regards to additional formats, I intend to support as many as possible. The only limitations are that if they are binary formats, I'll need a specification of some sort to help parse it, as I don't have the time right now to figure it out the hard way Sad Formats like 3DSMax and Maya are closed source, so trying to crack it will take a lot of trial and error. I'll take a look at OpenGEX though Smiley

 30 
 on: 2015-04-01 11:42:08 
Started by Neoptolemus - Last post by theagentd
Please consider supporting OpenGEX! A unified solution that supports everything I need would be amazing.

Do you support skeleton animation?

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