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1  Discussions / Miscellaneous Topics / Re: anyone else read the ABC article about Sun? on: 2004-05-03 07:32:05
I'm quite happy. Hopefulle this will (not)  turn their head towards open source. Either they fail to utilize or they blame it.

IBM is my company if I had to pick one. Now I only want to see  C# die and then we can replace these shitty C++ variants with real functional languages.
2  Discussions / Miscellaneous Topics / Re: 40 posts and I'm still a newbie? on: 2004-04-09 05:57:41
Why not make him newbie for his future existence?
3  Discussions / Miscellaneous Topics / Re: OSI president asks Sun to opensource Java on: 2004-04-02 08:22:04
Open Source is charity.

Sun is attempting to boost the java gaming community by letting the users to develop the applications, because SGI is not going to give up to their(Sun's) selfish demands.

The problem is that Sun is not allowed to make 'official' OpenGL port, because Sun/SGI licences conflict. SGI does not let Sun to do what Sun wants to do. Sun wants direct control over the API. SGI does not want this to happen. Sun gets direct control over the Open Source community. Problem solved.

It is easy to explain Star Office like this, too. Sun can't take advatange of toolkits like GTK. Users can. Sun does not want to develop own toolkits. Licence and copyright remains still at Sun. Problem Solved.

"Sun Open Source" is not charity. It is about boosting the competibility of Java without the tariffs to SGI. It is simply business.
4  Discussions / Miscellaneous Topics / Re: OSI president asks Sun to opensource Java on: 2004-04-01 09:00:06
Quote



How do you explain OpenOffice.org then?


Easile

The source-code licenses are the GNU General Public License and the Sun Industry Standards Source License. The document license is the Public Document License.

AND OPEN OFFICE DOES NOT NEED JRE TO BE INSTALLED TO RUN.

kthx, problem solved.
5  Discussions / Miscellaneous Topics / Re: Sun Makes Linux 3D on: 2004-03-31 05:17:37
It is not completely in Java. More like 99% not Java.

I did try the looking glass project and I have to say, there is yet to be usefulness discovered in 3d window managing. It is kind of like running windows in four monitor setup. You really don't need the four monitors, because windows can't make good use of them, but it is pretty cool nontheless and it will impress your friends.

I think I'm one of the few people who doesn't enjoy stuff spin around for few seconds and look "cool". But, whatever floats your boat.
6  Discussions / Miscellaneous Topics / Re: OSI president asks Sun to opensource Java on: 2004-03-30 06:20:56
Quote
The really big problem is the Open Source advocates demand to be able change anything they like. In my opinion this demand is excessive and unreasonable. Especially as in the case of Java you can add whatever you like to packages in your own namespace (i.e. not java or javax). I and many others like the fact that to change the language or the core packages you have to get your proposal through the JCP process.


I don't think it is too unreasonable for Sun to stop calling technology that has been written 99% in C++ as "Java technology"

Why did Sun introduce JCP instead of FSF or GNU? It is, because Sun's intention is no where near close to Open Source. They want more control and control is the reason why true Open Source can't happen. JCP is Sun driven and eventually Sun has the biggest word in it. If they want that some project gets canned, they get it canned.

This is where JCP goes wrong
Quote

Q: Does it cost anything to be a JCP member? Why?
A: The JSPA carries a nominal fee to cover administrative costs:

   * $5000/year annual fee for commercial entities
   * $2000/year annual fee for educational, governmental or non-profit organizations
   * $0/year (no fee) for individual Members or Java licensees


In my opinion there is no need for corporate open source. The same way as Public Domain is Public Doman, Open Source is Open Source. If I want to os something, nothing stops me from GNUing it.

So, why not GNU? It is not like sun is trying to sell java or anything....  Roll Eyes  Roll Eyes
7  Discussions / Miscellaneous Topics / Re: OSI president asks Sun to opensource Java on: 2004-03-29 10:30:07
Quote


The last statements of Sun were, that anyone is allowed to do an Open Source implementation. However if Sun changes their opinion, there could be legal problems. As a prerequisite the developers must not agree to the SCSL (classpath hacker's guide). If there were no legal problems at all, we'd already have more complete Open Source implementations (kaffe&co already exist for a long time). However in the past months classpath made quite some progress, so I'm not to pessimistic.



And that is the exact reason why Java needs to go standard body before anything serious can happen.
8  Discussions / Miscellaneous Topics / Re: OSI president asks Sun to opensource Java on: 2004-03-18 17:24:33
Quote
What is "the better solution"?


Well, it is impossible to know because there are so few and Sun imposes all kinds of not "true java" bitch policies on the ones that we have.

I definitely would change to open source implementation, if given the chance.
9  Discussions / Miscellaneous Topics / Re: OSI president asks Sun to opensource Java on: 2004-03-18 05:30:09
It would suck for Sun if Java did get "forked".

Then people might choose the better solution  Huh Huh
10  Discussions / Miscellaneous Topics / Re: UML Modeling on: 2004-03-04 16:47:28
UML Modeling  is a side product of flawed oop and absolute non-sense.

My last employer asked their new "fresh out of college" designer to draw trendy uml models before the code. Four days later, the person turned in 14 pages of shitty diagrams and a heap of insane spagethi code.

My results have been similiar. Of course I had to spend few hours to turn the code in to properly oriented funtional/procedual segments that actually fit the rest of the codebase.

UML Modelling is more like Astrology.
11  Discussions / Miscellaneous Topics / Re: the pro-linux args on: 2004-03-02 07:47:23
At least it is somewhat open. Compared to for example Sun Java and Microsoft Windows or any Microsoft compiler (Although, not everyone can contribute to the kernel).

It reduces vast amount of stupidity, because the lazy ones will not be able to use the good distros (debian, gentoo) and it also reduces ignorance of the operating system user. Some distros such as Mandrake and Fedora (bloated pieces of crap, imo) are more newbie friendly, but still viable solutions.

There is plenty of software availalbe. That is, software which is often better than Windows software. Considering the software is open, anyone can continue development. Linux is also perfect environment for Gnu Emacs, which in fact is the best Emacs ever also simultaniously being many other best things, ever.

Of course linux can have pitfalls. For example morons who install KDE without knowing that it is developed by 12 year-old morons. With the programming ability of an ape. However, good sollutions, such as Gnome can yield to awesome performance and hardware acceleration.

Open standards have other good sides, for example kOffice (KDE, omg!) lets you edit and create PDFs, currently not present in other bundle software.

The networking abilities of Linux are unquestionable. Whether it is better or worse than FreeBSD, is irrelevant as it is far more elegant and better solution compared to any Windows platform.

Linux in laptops is becoming a lot better. With the multitude of filesystems, a friend of mine prolonged his battery life about three hours by moving from Windows (lol) ntfs to another Linux specific filesystem, which is almost as fast, but requires less rpms.

The best thing of Linux, currently is that, it is pretty much retard free. People who want to install linux, want to understand how linux works and not just ask "HHEY WHERE DA MORRRPG CREATING TOOLS AT!?? YO PPPUaa!"

Also, its gnu. Cool

Oh yeah and it works with good C compilers. I don't know about Java. I haven't really thought about installing Java on my linux machines, because Java would probably break them. (As being Windows platform dependent: Sun wants to target masses, masses = windows, Sun wants to be like Microsoft, can't be -> bitterness.)
12  Game Development / Performance Tuning / Re: So for the first time in a few years I tried A on: 2004-02-23 12:26:50
Hahahahah... AWT. This really cool windowing toolkit by sun that uses other windowing toolkits on other platforms. Morelike windowing windowing windowing tool kit of a windowing toolkit.
13  Discussions / Miscellaneous Topics / Re: the anti-linux args (from AWT thread) on: 2004-02-18 12:48:39
Emacs is more like life, universe and everything. Where do you need "windows" and other useless graphical features when you can access IRC from Emacs and code in multiple languages?  :-/

"windows are for nubs" and console for life.  Grin

Also Emacs is far from bloated. Look what happened to Opera and Mozilla Firebird. Both of them came from good minimalist sollution to bloated pieces of crap.
14  Discussions / Miscellaneous Topics / Re: Little rant on: 2004-02-18 11:24:36
Nooo!!!! Operator overloading is so far from elegance I think everyone should move to my model:


MathFactory.3DMathMonostate.VecMath.Vectors.TranslationSingleton.translateVector4f(planeNormal.getNormal(), planenormal.getD)

A lot easier than using:
Vector4f transf_position = triangle.position * view_transformation;

I don't really care for PrinceC's model, however operators are nice. Besides it wouldn't be that hard to abuse them and only complete idiots would use * as dot or crossproduct. Besides overloading new and delete would be obsolete in java and thus this would remove 90% of the abuses.
15  Discussions / Miscellaneous Topics / Re: the anti-linux args (from AWT thread) on: 2004-02-18 09:38:03
Huh Huh why would you go back to visual studio after using Emacs Huh Huh
16  Discussions / Miscellaneous Topics / Re: OSI president asks Sun to opensource Java on: 2004-02-18 09:26:20
I don't see Java "open-source" untill the syntax of the language is standardized. Microsoft bullying Sun on standardization board meetings is nonsense. Why would they do that? Sun could bring up a lot of stuff in all the C# meetings.

Real opensourcing of Java would be:
-Standardized language so that anyone can order the spec. As far as I know ordering the spec is now almost impossible,
-Sun open sourcing the libraries that are not included to the language itself so that anyone can make their personalized versions of the libraries. As far as I know, if Java were a real language would work with the JRE.
-Sun open sourcing the JRE.

Thus:
If the libraries and the language spec were open people could create own versions of the JRE that were compatible with the Sun JRE.

I can't see any downsides of opensourcing the JRE. Code that i create in vs.net works usually without changes in GCC.  Why shouldn't the same be possible with Java?

Also, if Java really was a open standard, I would see no problem in Microsoft creating a JRE that works better on the windows platform.

Also whoever said that vs.net doesn't follow the standard...

Roll Eyes Roll Eyes

...where on the contrast there is no public standard for Java.... So technically all Java I create is out of standard.
17  Discussions / Miscellaneous Topics / Re: Converting java source to c/c++ source on: 2003-11-29 07:02:39
Quote
A lesser known function of JNI is that it wil let you actually launch a VM and make method calls into it from C.

But im not sure you want all that overhead for a  plug-in, which is why I didn't mention it sooner.

JK

P.S.  I did 15 years of C and 10 years of C++ guys.  Yes, when you NEED "the world's highest level assembler" C is useful.  

The rest of the time its a royal fricking pain in the ass. i get working code written about 8 times faster in Java then I do in C Sad



Have you actually tried that?

I sure have. Yet it is incomplete and unstable and i'd rather claw my eyes out than use it.
18  Discussions / Miscellaneous Topics / Re: Converting java source to c/c++ source on: 2003-11-29 07:00:31
Quote



Yeah!  Listen to the guy who only does C/C++ as oppsoed to those of us with lots of experience in both.  That makes sense.

Why are you even here CG?  I can't imagine these forums are of ANY use to you.

Fact of the matter is that those who have really learned Java after being very skilled C and C++ professionals have time after time reported 2 to 10 times productivity increases.  there are plenty of enterprise studies out there to supprot this if you wan't to actually do some google research.

FACT: Java promotes error that are late-errors in C and C++ (hiding til release) to compile time or first-run time errors.  This alone drastically reduces the error count released into the field and the Q&A time necessary to get to those releases.

FACT:  C++ suffers from the "fragile abse class" problem due to pre-compilation.  Java late binding solves this.

FACT: C++ requires you to do your own memory management and is generally horendously slow at allcoation and deallocation compared to Java. The result is pressure to write less object oriented and thus in the end less maintainable code.

There are other reasons but these are three of the big ones.

Take it from someone who was considered a C++ guru, who now does Java exclusively.




Please read my other posts. I do quite a bit of lisp and ocaml. Even more than C++ now that I got my renderer finished and got to move into more interesting things.

Also please restraing from sprouting those "facts" as truims. They are not much better than someone saying Java is dumbed down C++.

20% increase in productivity? What is it just me or am I watching the infomercials channel here? Wait am I lazy? No. Your failure to provide "enterprise" studies is supported by the fact that I could not find any either.

http://www.zdnet.com.au/builder/program/development/story/0,2000035066,20277550,00.htm
is something.

Also, please if you find something let the source be something else than sun affiliated site. Java.sun.com affiliates promise to increase my productivity, get me a new boiler tank while I enhance my bust and penis size at the same time!!

Java is great. I admit it. I like the fact that you can write it once and run it anywhere. However I don't like the closed design of Java, which makes it almost impossible to incorporate it with my other projects written in other languages. Going using C from java is possible, but using Java from C is impossible. However I can use ocaml and lisp that way.Shocked

These forums are plenty of use for me. I don't like to be a closed minded C++er as you seem to make it out.

Roll Eyes x1000
19  Discussions / Miscellaneous Topics / Re: Converting java source to c/c++ source on: 2003-11-28 14:26:53
Quote
Every language has its ups and downs. A tool, is a tool, is a tool.

And captain-goaste, you're a tool. Smiley

Kev



Dude,

You are making fun of me and I do not know how =(
Perhaps C++ dumbed me down  Roll Eyes
20  Discussions / Miscellaneous Topics / Re: Converting java source to c/c++ source on: 2003-11-28 14:25:36
Quote

 Shocked

The intricacies of multiple inheritance FAR outweight its beauty!
Pointers on the other hand, *can* be used for some nice stuff, though there usage is riddled with problems.


First one down. How come you were the only one to catch this?

How about a concrete example? You don't have to use it. I happen to like it. C++ is multi paradigm language. Java is not.

Anyway my point is that don't get too patriotic of anything. Don't restrict yourself to Java. Look, the world is full of functional languages like ocaml, lisp and haskell. lol pun lol.

I do my AI in lisp abd this is only because of sun's relatively open* stance I've found it impossible to intergrate anything else but javadoc into my project. Sad isn't it?


*closed
21  Discussions / Miscellaneous Topics / Re: Converting java source to c/c++ source on: 2003-11-28 11:35:44
HAHAHAHAHAHHA

Way to go Java mongers!!

Java is dumbed down C++. The syntax is almost the same, but C++ has some more advanced features.

It should not take long. Prototyping is nice and easy. Once you understand how the program works everything is pretty much the same. And almost as portable.

Right now, I'll only use few features of Java in my project. Mainly JavaDoc, because it was the first good documentation method I ever met.  Other than that I don't really fiddle with Java, because there are good platform toolkits for C++ and I don't like the complexity java adds when dealing with opengl extensions.

So my point was that don't listen to these fanatics. Start download gcc, fire it up and do it. If you start now you'll be finished by sunday. Also it will make you appreciate the beauty of multiple inheritance and pointers.

And my point holds. Java is a lot like C++, except for college kids who think "Oh my, Why can't pointers be like butterflies made out of candy! WHy can't they fly around and why can't you snatch one when you are hungry! Oh noes what is this closed standard language! Yay it is Java!!"

Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin
22  Discussions / Miscellaneous Topics / Nokia N-Gage, flop? on: 2003-10-12 09:52:36
Interesting issue because this unique handheld provides java support. Now anyone can program games for commercial systems.

However it seems to be that nokia N-Gage is the worst handheld ever. ON launch day, they sold SIX units in new York alone! Can you imagine that. Gameboy SP sold 6000 systems on launch day. Pretty neat.

It is hilarious, because Nokia didn't listen to the indies at all.
When I first heard about the magical game swapping thing(which sucks) and said it does not work and it is a major design flaw I got banned from nokia developer.com.

Now that I have used the system couple of times, I can only say that the person who buys this thing is either stupid or confused throughly.

23  Discussions / Miscellaneous Topics / Re: Sun begins new round of layoffs... on: 2003-09-29 08:59:17
Quote
Yep but don't discount the impact that StarOffice and OpenOffice will have on the bottom line. There are many businesses who are looking at StarOffice and saying 'this is good enough and a crap load cheaper'. Sun through Star/Open Office finally have a nail that they can drive into the heart of Microsoft - something they've been trying to achieve for years. If they, through the Java Desktop thingy, get this version of office to the masses - they would deal Microsoft a serious blow on the balance sheets.



I'd refuse to work in place that does not let me have my MS Word.
24  Discussions / Miscellaneous Topics / Re: Sun begins new round of layoffs... on: 2003-09-27 05:37:17
My personal opinion is that Sun should stop selling 180k servers that are based on five year old technology. Instead they should be selling 250k servers that are based on modern technology.
25  Discussions / Miscellaneous Topics / Re: Sun begins new round of layoffs... on: 2003-09-24 11:29:03
Quote


Please explain how laying off people can be a positive sign. If you can't or won't, please keep your negativity to yourself Sad


It is a sign of cutting out the 'idealistic' crap, such as Java3d API and concetrating hard facts that really do need concentration. Java needs fast, reliable and beliaveble platform intependet 3d API. Java3d just didn't cut it.

The great part of Java is the easy and straightforwarc 'standard' library, however there is no way Sun could provide developers with up to date, fast, modern hw or sw graphics API along the same lines.

So, yes, Sun is merely taking out the unproductive units. The non-sound apples. I'm sorry if this sounds like a personal insult, which it may if you ever put your hopes on Java3d, but it is all for the best of Java as a language.
26  Discussions / Miscellaneous Topics / Re: Sun begins new round of layoffs... on: 2003-09-23 14:41:40
This is definately a positive sign.
27  Java Game APIs & Engines / Java 3D / Re: Mark Hood on: 2003-09-23 14:38:55
Perhaps this the first sign of sun becoming aware?
28  Game Development / Performance Tuning / Re: Java vs. c#, c++ and D benchmark on: 2003-09-23 14:28:44
Quote
I think you're missing the point of that article. It merely puts benchmarks in general somewhat in perspective. It doesn't say anything about speed of a language at all and it certainly doesn't proof anything about 'bad coding encouragement of java'.

Erik



Then it is not a benchmark, but rather 'witty' practical joke.

From what I undestrood I was directed to 'benchmark' when I clicked that link and thus I expected one. The multitude of expression is fooling me. Sarcastic ways of non-analytic language. I will go back to analytic language now.
29  Game Development / Performance Tuning / Re: Java vs. c#, c++ and D benchmark on: 2003-09-23 14:16:14
That is rather trivial benchmark to show 'good' sides of Java. What about doing a squareroot or sin something in the loop and see what happens.

I have never seen a programmer who iterates through two loops to do nothing, especially rendertime.

Actually, I'm wrong, that is not a trivial benchmark, but a proof that Java encourages bad coding styles. Since when has it been ok to make stupid mistakes like unfold incredibly long meaningless loops?
30  Game Development / Performance Tuning / Re: Java vs. c#, c++ and D benchmark on: 2003-09-23 10:38:08
It is shame people bind themselves. If this benchmark had had "JAVA is FAST" all over it, some of the more eager members of this board would have been proclaiming the second coming of jesus himself. Past five years Java programmers have been hit in the face by Java is slow. Before it didn't matter, since Sun didn't claim it to be a serious media library. Perhaps it is true after all?

Currently only advatange of java is "platform intependance", which is arguable anyway. For example SDL adds the all Java has to offer to C++ and code difference is very small.

Future only shows whether sun will pull its head out of its arsehole when pondering whether java should be a serious media library or not.

Also, Sun is teh evil company now. Microsoft is going for ansi/iso standard for C#. Where is the standard for Java?
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