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1  Java Game APIs & Engines / JavaFX / Re: JOGL in JavaFX on: 2013-07-11 03:45:44
Excuse my resurrection of this topic.  I haven't been around these parts in ages, but I have been following JavaFX development very closely....

See this thread

and this

Basically, there is strong interest from Oracle to expose something like a raw OpenGL surface in JavaFX.  But it is still a ways off.
2  Discussions / General Discussions / Re: JGO domain-name changed ?! on: 2011-08-28 03:33:58
I blame SOCIETY! (and Riven)
3  Discussions / General Discussions / Re: Unlimited Detail Update on: 2011-08-08 05:30:46
But more than 4 GB RAM ? when would you ever need that ?
Maybe if you're playing a new game, while doing 3d stuff in maya, while having photoshop open, while watching a HD vid, in a 4 screen setup...on windows vista

Um nearly always...
I'm running OS X 10.7 (Lion) on a laptop with 8 GB RAM... I have my email open (, a Terminal window or two, Finder, iChat, lots of other little system things (Dashboard etc.) and Activity Monitor...  current memory usage is: 5.40 GB.
... no swapping though... - much nicer than an SSD and way cheaper Wink
4  Discussions / General Discussions / Re: Java 7 on: 2011-08-07 03:09:14
I think OS X 10.6 requires a 64-bit capable Mac, not 100% sure.  It must be Intel though.  Apple only supports the last two OS releases.  PPC Macs are long dead. (Which is sad because I have an old Powerbook that is PPC.)

I think the Java stuff that is currently in the App store is using a fragment of OpenJDK 6.

Here's a section of the relevant thread from the Apple java-dev email list:
It's inside the .app bundle, and yes, it is definitely an OpenJDK derivative.

You should contact the author for more info. If he would like to share how he bundled it, we've got a stub page at <> which we can revise once we get a proper .jre bundle in the build.

Mike Swingler
Java Engineering
Apple Inc.

On Jun 14, 2011, at 7:28 PM, John Yeary wrote:

I was looking for a clue about it using OpenJDK, and I did not find
anything. Do you know it uses it for sure?

On Tue, Jun 14, 2011 at 9:37 PM, Mike Swingler <> wrote:

There is already an app that does this by embedding OpenJDK: <>.

MACOSX_PORT-105 would make part of the process easier, but you'd also have
to strip out the X11-dependent libraries so you wouldn't be using any other
optionally installed components.

Mike Swingler
Java Engineering
Apple Inc.

5  Discussions / General Discussions / Re: Java 7 on: 2011-08-06 23:13:16
Also another thing to keep in mind about Java 7 is that its not going be released on Mac OS X at all. Instead Apple are moving all their code to OpenJDK with a view to be done by the Java 8 release at which point Apple will abandon their Java support and pass over control/responsibility for Java on Mac to Oracle/OpenJDK.

That is not quite true.  Apple is currently actively developing the Apple port of Java 7 via OpenJDK - i.e. it's available now if you want to try the unfinished product.

Also, Apple is fully supporting embedding a JRE (or whatever bits you need in a stripped down JRE) in apps and allowing Java apps in the App store when bundled that way (since they no longer rely on "optional" tech that way).  There are already Java apps in the store that work that way.

 (Hey Cas - you should put all the PuppyGames stuff in the App Store!)
6  Discussions / General Discussions / Re: Is java still the way to go? on: 2011-04-15 19:55:09
All that theory and research is nice but then you go and open NetBeans, JEdit, or one of the other many Java built applications and you find quite a different reality.
It does not prove anything. These programs are sometimes not responsive enough, maybe they have too big a memory footprint, it does not mean that Java itself is slow. When I use Jake 2, I find what I expect from a Java application. I have used Java since 2002 and I have worked on some professionnal polished applications, this is the subset of the reality that I see. You can write bad programs with any language.
When you look at the non-Java versions of those applications (such as Visual Studio instead of NetBeans and Eclipse, and Notepad++ instead of JEdit) then you find them more responsive and use less memory. The same is also for plenty of other Java apps I've used over the years.

Actually NetBeans and Eclipse launch faster when you include the opening of projects. They both run faster and are way more powerful than Visual Studio.  Even for C/C++ development.  They do use more memory.. partly because in a garbage collecting environment there is overhead, and partly because they have way more features.

C/C++ has it's place, but in general terms Java is usually a better language for dealing with applications.  System level stuff (like drivers), or areas that do need hand tuning in critical loops (with MMX/SSE, etc.) benefit from C/C++ and how easily it transitions between machine code and C+C++ compiled code.

I'm currently working on a project that uses a lot of mixed C++ and Java (I develop in C/C++ and Java) and the C++ parts are the most tedious.  Simple things like dealing with text are a chore in C++ and I don't have to give it a thought in Java... why - because C++ doesn't do strings well.. it can't even decide what a string is , having char*, wchar_t *, std:string, std:wstring, LPCSTR, not to mention needing to deal with encodings of 8-bit strings... u-g-l-y.      Our product processes video which is obviously sensitive to performance and yet we do as much as we can in Java because of the productivity gains and the cross-platform features it provides.  We use C++ mainly to interface with native libraries from 3rd parties, and occasionally in a few places where it is just more suited to the task because of the low-level nature of the bit-twiddling that needs to be done.

The benefits of using Java come from a few places, language features (e.g. Strings), VM features (e.g. hotspot, portability), libraries (Java runtime has a lot more going for it out of the box), and perhaps just as important Tools (Netbeans, Eclipse, visualvm, Ant, etc. vs.  VisualStudio).
7  Discussions / General Discussions / Re: Go on, ask me anything. on: 2011-04-06 03:39:13

Sorry.. I can see how that wasn't clear... I was empathizing with you :-)
8  Discussions / General Discussions / Re: Go on, ask me anything. on: 2011-04-06 01:42:51
sigh...  Undecided
9  Discussions / General Discussions / Re: Is java still the way to go? on: 2011-04-06 01:32:07
Java is very easy to learn but there is allways that performance handicap.

What performance Handicap?

Okay, there is an issue for cases when optimized MMX/SSE/SSE2 etc. is the right thing to do.  Like with many signal processing algorithms.  But for general code there is usually no performance issue.  At my company we are moving more and more towards Java code for as much as we can - and we are in the (video) signal processing business  ;-)
We just use native code where it matters.  For games the core performance areas are usually handled by hardware via OpenGL, so native code isn't needed *at all*, or such native code is already in a library like LWJGL.  Coding the bulk of your stuff in Java will just be easier for other reasons (much better support in tools, better standard libraries, etc.)

The Java language may not always be the way to go...  Scala or something may be better depending on the application, but running on the JVM, using the Java Platform is still a reasonable choice.
10  Discussions / General Discussions / Re: Go on, ask me anything. on: 2011-04-06 01:17:11
Hi Cas, the stupid answers you got to that bug request about struts are really sad.
Did you ever get any new info about that? other than what is in the bug report?
Did you ever try the javolution structs? are they useful or just too much overhead?
Nope, it just got filed in a dusty cupboard somewhere at Sun and forgotten. Considering how crucial it is to compete with C on performance for critical I/O tasks it's pretty odd that it hasn't been championed a little more.

What we need to do is extend ByteBuffer with getObject(x), putObject(x) methods.  They would be defined to fill in the public fields of Object x from the buffer, in the order they are declared (is that order info preserved?).  Only primitive fields would be allowed or there would be a runtime exception or undefined behaviour.  We can do that all with pure Java. Then once everyone clues in to how useful this is, convince someone to make it an intrinsic operation for HotSpot.  Grin
11  Discussions / General Discussions / Re: Go on, ask me anything. on: 2011-04-05 15:14:45
Yeah, I've thought about a Java-centric OS as well.  It would be cool... but definitely would need real-time extensions to Java... responding to interrupts and then doing a stop-the-world GC in the middle of one would be, shall we say, "interesting"?

I had heard that one of the original proposals for PCI devices was that they contain rudimentary drivers in a on-board ROM as Forth code that would provide BIOS-like access to the device so it would be usable on it's own.. high performance drivers tailored for the OS would be loaded later as needed.  Not sure if that was for real or not.. but it is an interesting concept.
12  Discussions / General Discussions / Re: Go on, ask me anything. on: 2011-04-05 03:16:03
If you hate all the operating systems, why don't you write your own?

Since I can find something to hate about most OS's I'll answer too :-) .. and I've always wanted to write my own... but...

Time & Money

Think of the device drivers required just to get a basic system going...
Somebody should make a very high-level language for device drivers and then a compiler that did the right thing for each OS...  there's a project for ya!
13  Discussions / General Discussions / Re: Go on, ask me anything. on: 2011-04-05 03:07:57
OS X started using the Mach Kernel from the NeXTSTEP project, which basically a dumbed down OpenBSD.

NextSTEP and the kernel are independent things.  NextSTEP was the set of Objective-C based APIs - which are cool, despite how much I can't get used to Objective-C syntax.

The Mach Kernel influenced a lot of other OS kernels.. including Windows NT and it's successors

NextSTEP is old tech, but sadly still the most advanced stuff around as far as OS APIs go.  Everyone else is stuck on lame C interfaces and no good object oriented APIs to the OS at all.  Linux is stuck in the 70's insisting that nothing comes after C.  Coding kernel level stuff in C++ is next to impossible on Linux as far as I know, yet it is basically the norm on Window  -even though MS is brain dead and still doesn't officially support it.. Heck they still don't support kernel development with their own primary development environment, Visual Studio.
14  Discussions / General Discussions / Re: Go on, ask me anything. on: 2011-04-05 02:56:29
Oh, and a throwaway comment: pixel perfect collision sucks! It only exists because of an anachronism in the way sprites were handled on the C64 for example. In modern times, it's unforgiving, computationally expensive, and a waste of time. I could probably say a similar thing for pixel-perfect raycasting into 3D models for FPS guns. Most people will be happier and enjoy themselves more scoring a hit when things are more or less on target, not perfectly on target.

Cas Smiley

It may depend on context.  Pixel-perfect 2D collisions were handled in hardware in the past, that's true.  I suppose it would be possible to do them in hardware with todays graphics chips as well.

But I have to say I suspect I would prefer it.  I basically stopped playing first-person shooters because the network lag and rendering meant that what should have been a near miss according to the local rendering was often counted as a hit by the server and so I felt the game was ripping me off.  E.g. locally: duck out from behind a wall and take a shot and duck back in. Server's version: shoot a rocket into a wall directly in front of you and kill yourself. I.e. Not Fun.
So I'm not a fan of a near miss counting - when my player is the thing that should have been missed :-)
15  Discussions / General Discussions / Re: Go on, ask me anything. on: 2011-04-05 02:49:23

You will find that I am most probably the biggest Mac hater of all.
i lost a bunch of data by plugging a flash drive into a mac. it didn't recognize the filesystem and decided to format for mac.

2. vista's look isn't too bad, but that doesn't make up for the fact that other than that, its a piece of crap, and win7 just looks wierd. windows are not supposed to be semitransparent.

I doubt that's how it actually happened, since OS X doesn't arbitrarily decide to format unrecognized media.

Of course I like Macs. OS X is the most usable OS I've ever tried... In it's day Amiga OS was clearly a least a decade ahead of the competition, OS X is the closest thing I can find these days.
16  Discussions / Miscellaneous Topics / Re: Wasting my life programming ? on: 2009-12-24 04:29:11
Programming exercises your mind and helps develop problem solving skills and perhaps even critical thinking.  I don't think anyone can say a negative thing about that, and I have to say better problem solving skills apply to nearly EVERYTHING you do.  It doesn't just make you a better programmer.

Your brain is just like a muscle, if you don't exercise it, it will not be as strong.  Programming isn't the only way to exercise your brain, but I think it is one of the better ways.
17  Discussions / General Discussions / Re: Java 7 to get Closures! on: 2009-12-24 04:16:16
Aye, see, I've already got a mechanism to distinguish the workings from the interface, and they're called... interfaces Smiley
Turns out AWT is also not so hard to ditch Wink

Cas Smiley

How about everything is protected by default and ONLY the methods that implement an interface are public.  No other methods are allowed to be public.  So if you want to add a public method you have to extend or add an interface that your class implements.

I personally thing protected access is strange the way Java did it.  Allowing any class in the same package to access protected fields seems lame.  There is no way to have fields accessible only to the class and other classes that subclass it *without* allowing access to all classes in the same package.
18  Discussions / Miscellaneous Topics / Re: Worst OS ever? on: 2009-09-28 15:30:16
Check this out: Microsoft's grinning robots or the Brotherhood of the Mac. Which is worse?

My favourite line:
Windows is like the faint smell of piss in a subway: it's there, and there's nothing you can do about it.
19  Java Game APIs & Engines / Tools Discussion / Re: Need IDE with native font rendering on: 2009-09-28 05:44:00
pixel order should be configurable in a good os Wink

There is no good OS, haven't you seen the "Worst OS ever" thread?  Wink
20  Discussions / General Discussions / Re: From Reddit: **** you Sun! Bundling trialware with the latest Java update is on: 2009-09-28 02:30:48
And I notice whatever idiot makes the installer *still* can't manage to get logos at their correct size and instead resort to some really crappy looking scaling. Unprofessional touches like that are a red flag to users that make them think they're installing some kind of dodgy malware.

Not likely their fault.  MSI is broken in this regards.  You can't predict 100% what the size of the bitmap needs to be, and the UI will scale it (very poorly).  I think it all depends on font sizes, DPI and such that are currently set in the system prefs.

I tried to do this with my own MSI installer and learned the hard way.  Their bitmap scaling is so broken it will introduce coloured streaks where there were solid colours in some cases
21  Discussions / Miscellaneous Topics / Re: Anyone read the x10 specification yet? on: 2009-09-27 04:06:01
Wow!  That "Line" thing is a perfect example of over-complicating things when you are trying to do the opposite.
22  Discussions / Miscellaneous Topics / Re: Worst OS ever? on: 2009-09-27 03:59:02
Agree re: Amiga & BeOS

Hey, I actually have an original PowerPC dual processor BeBox - complete with Geek port... That was the hardware made be Be Inc. before they decided to go software only.   Somebody gave it to me.  I never was able to get it to boot up properly, but the hardware appears to function correctly.

Those were the days.  Loved the Amiga of course - it was way ahead of it's time.  The OS was easily ten years ahead of anything Microsoft did.  If you compared platforms in the Amiga days you would wonder how it was that PCs survived at all (IBM's sales force, that's how).

BeOS was cool because (like OS X) they took the good bits from Unix and scrapped the crap (X windows).  They had a very decent file system too as I recall.  Specially compared with the crap of MS Windows which persists to this day - showing how far behind MS is... (short file names?  drive letters? - still going for DOS compatibilty are they?)

Microsoft needs to stop dragging their feet and actually do that innovation that they pretend they are good at.  Ditch drive letters. Provide a way to assign a drive letter to any folder as a work around for near-term backward compatibility.  Ditch short file names - they were a tremendously stupid idea.  Ditch COM - it was supposed to solve DLL hell, but it made it worse and then they went with all these "assemblies" and side-by-side hacks and application manifest torture. Dropping all that BS and going back to plain DLLs in the application's folder would make things so much better.  They just have to not allow applications to downgrade system DLLs.   

I agree that Apple got it right with Application Bundles - so simple and it works for 99.9% of applications out there.  Anything else uses a standard package installer. 

MS screwed up royally with their installer technology (MSI) - they had a cool concept that just has so many side effects and obscure rules that it just plain doesn't work well at all and produces the slowest install/uninstall experience I could ever imagine.

Hey, let's turn this thread around and make it a little more positive.. what would you need for an OS to NOT  suck?

MY perfect OS would:

-have a decent command line, though it would never be required by any non-developer.

- run ZFS as the filesystem.  It may not be the fastest, but it is so much better than anything else I have ever seen in terms of properly dealing with backups, compression, resiliency, adding storage, mounting, formating, snapshoting, etc.

- have a decent windowing system (not X) that knew how to use a modern graphics card for more than cute effects. Windows 7 is close.  Somewhere between OS X and Windows 7 is probably the sweet spot.

- Have decent APIs and frameworks and not drop them and start something completely different every 2 years like Microsoft.  Again Apple is clearly ahead here.  All of the "Core" APIs come to mind. 

- Support for Open Standards like: OpenGL, OpenCL, Java.  Unlike MS which seems to purposely not follow open standards (e.g. DirectX, Direct3D) because they can use their monoply tolock people in that way - or they wait till everyone already has settled on something and them come up with something different and call it open (e.g. MAPI)

- On my ideal OS, networking wouldn't suck amd VPNs would be trivial to setup and get working.

- simple and decent security that doesn't try to solve every concievably problem within the realm of possible security issues.  Sometimes special needs (military) will need some of their own implementations on top of what the OS provides - making everything rediculously complex for the general population for a few niche markets has screwed all sorts of security things.  (Look at how rediculously complex it it is to get a secure web service with Metro/WSIT.)

-All software would need to be signed.  The OS vendor could be a signing authority and give out keys for next to nothing - maybe jsut enough to cover the cost of verifying the identities of the devs that ask for keys, but not the ridiculous prices that current signing authorities are charging.
Therefore viruses and mal-ware would be more difficult to create without being caught, and keys could be blacklisted to stop malware/viruses in their tracks.

-A requirement of above would mean that the existing hardware mechanism would be used to prevent the execution of data - you can only RUN stuff from RAM that was loaded with data from a verified source of instruction codes; an application or a library.  A mechanism for JIT compilation would be there, the JIT compiler would of course need to be signed, but hopeful something could be done to prevent buffer overruns leading to code execution and complete take overs of the machine - the #1 thing that MS security updates patch on a weekly basis.

-All applications would be scriptable and able to trade data easily via a mechanism like AREXX of the Amiga days, or Apple Script (but less sucky)

-keyboard focus would never be stolen by a pop-up while I was typing (Windows sucks for this.  Again Mac got it right.)

-I would be able to change ALL user-configurable settings via a GUI. (Linux = fail.  An obscure text file in an obscure folder is not a UI.)

-I would be able to discover and run ALL applications from the main UI of the OS without resorting to a command line. (Linux you fail bigtime here)

-The OS would include support of basic technolgies out of the box (browser, email - it was stupid to go after MS because they bundled IE, they don't so many things wrong it was a shame that bundling a browser was a focus when that was obviously what EVERY OS vendor should do)

-Simple access restrictions would be built in.  The kind that real people use - like OS X does for filtering iChat, email, web pages, ability to isntall programs, etc - for your kids accounts.

-A single Software Update mechanism would cover ALL installed software.  No need for everyone to re-invent the wheel with update checks built in to every program or tons of updating check processes  (e.g. Java, apple, MS, etc) launching on startup only to sit and do nothing.

-Rebooting would only be required to reset hardware.

-When a file was in use the OS would tell you what app was using it, not jsut that you can't rename or delete it.  I think Snow Leopard has this. MS could do it, but doesn't. When MS tries to do it like they do when installing/uninstalling via MSI, they fail and tell you things that aren't true.

There are some problems that need to be solved outside of the OS that make the user experience with some OS's suck.. like not being able to find drivers.  For devices like printers for example there should only be about three or four printer drivers IN THE WORLD - because lets face it, printers all work the same - use some damn firmware people and support a few common standards for the type of printing device you are making (plotter, vector vs. raster based) - of course the OS can suppy the vector to raster translation layer if the printer device is not vector based.
23  Discussions / Miscellaneous Topics / Re: Worst OS ever? on: 2009-09-26 14:31:36
If MS didn't have thier monopoly forcing people to run their crappy OS so they can run their crappy MS Office and Exchange server they would have virtually no users (like Linux has now).

Vista sucks.  All MS OS versions prior to Windows NT were a total joke and crashed so much they were unusable.

Linux is too chaotic - has no direction, there is no consistency among apps, nothing works well together, and the UI blows.

Basically ALL Os is suck - it's a matter of what sucks less.  Anyone every use a NeXT box? I heard they were good.
24  Java Game APIs & Engines / Tools Discussion / Re: Need IDE with native font rendering on: 2009-09-08 02:48:37
ClearType is garbage IMO. Turn it off, then on and note that it completely ruins many of the glyphs and sometimes the kerning too. That is with my monitor in landscape, I usually use my 24" widescreen LCD in portrait so I get ~2 pages of code. With the LCD rotated, I don't think the subpixel stuff works right, even going through the setup for it.

I would bet that ClearType can't handle a rotated LCD.  I prefer ClearType to be on.. some people claim it makes things "blurry", I think it makes things easier to read than with the jaggies... but as mentioned font selection can make a big difference too.
25  Java Game APIs & Engines / Tools Discussion / Re: which compiler (/IDE)? on: 2009-09-08 02:44:50
I prefer (and use) NetBeans, but acknowledge that Eclipse is noticeably faster.
I find NetBeans is easier to use though.  If you aren't using an IDE then you are most certainly wasting a lot of your time in your editor.  In addition to the access to javadocs mentioned above, IDEs type most of your code for you and check your syntax and other errors on-the-fly.  They tell you what order the parameters are in for the method you are calling etc.  If you aren't using an IDE you must try them out until you find one that works well for you.  It will be worth the time invested.
26  Games Center / Featured Games / Re: Final Kapster on: 2009-09-08 02:37:32
Despite kicking Cas' butt on the highscore list, I too think it is too hard. :-)

That laggy ship control takes some getting used to... if the player's ship movement was a little more responsive it might help.  Everything is also quite big on the screen... like enemy shots and your ship...  I like the look, but the first time the aliens sent a curtain of shots I assumed I was dead because it didn't look like it was even possible to fit between them.  The hit box does appear to be a little smaller than the actual sprites though... I don't think I like that - even though it saved by butt a few times.

Overall I really like the look and the game play was generally good.
27  Games Center / Featured Games / Re: Incredibuilder on: 2009-09-07 20:49:35
trying on OpenSolaris...  1.6.0_15

Failed a level (9 or 10?) hit retry.. hit one of WASD while it was restarting the level and got this:
org.newdawn.slick.SlickException: Game.update() failure - check the game code.
   at org.newdawn.slick.GameContainer.updateAndRender(
   at org.newdawn.slick.AppletGameContainer$Container.runloop(
   at org.newdawn.slick.AppletGameContainer$ContainerPanel.start(
   at org.newdawn.slick.AppletGameContainer$
28  Games Center / Featured Games / Re: Incredibuilder on: 2009-09-07 20:29:23
When you say outside the pattern, is it outside the background blocks (light grey blocks) as well? Also, have you played the applet version?

EDIT: I'm not able to repro it.  Undecided Which level does it happen?

The rotated piece is always entirely within the game board.. it gets "stuck" as soon as you rotate it, presumably because after rotating, part of the piece overlaps already placed blocks in the target shape.

I can no longer launch the game... visiting that page locks up Firefox until I use task manager to kill the "java" or the java plugin2 process.  It puts up a security dialog that doesn't respond to button presses (or rollover for that matter) and then the java plugin is hung.  I may need to reboot.. Using Java 1.6.0_16 on Windows 7-RC (64-bit, but using 32-bit JRE)
29  Games Center / Featured Games / Re: Incredibuilder on: 2009-09-06 23:51:56
It happened on more than one level,so I don't think that mattered - though it might matter which tool is used to get rid of the overlaping blocks, I suppose.  I recall using the hammer.

To reproduce:
-rotate a piece when rotating it will cause it to overlap with blocks already placed in the pattern
-this gives blocks in the pattern a red X, and some red Xs outside of the pattern
-hammer out the red Xs, when you hammer out a red X is will leave behind either a blank space (for the Xs that were outside the pattern) or a filled in block (where the X resulted from 'overlap')
-at this point everything looks normal.. the level may be unfinished still, but all "errors" apepar to be accounted for
- finish the level as expected, but it won't be recognised as completed

I'll try again to see how easy it is to reproduce - I did it twice when I tried the other day.
30  Games Center / WIP games, tools & toy projects / Re: LWJGL water shader demo. on: 2009-09-05 04:13:10
Old version was:
2400 fps.  nVidia GTS 250, Core i7, Windows 7 64 bit

The new version runs just a hair shy of 3800fps.  Nice improvement!
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