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1  Discussions / General Discussions / Re: Mo Powah! on: 2003-01-06 20:59:13
Me too!  Shocked
2  Java Game APIs & Engines / Java 2D / Re: basic java games question on: 2003-01-05 18:29:00
U have to make your own event handling crap to use lwgjl or whatever???

Hmmm... a bad choice of words on my behalf. Why don't you go see yourself. It'll take you five minutes to figure out how to handle mouse input with LWJGL and you'll see the difference. With LWJGL you have to create and position the mouse yourself. Then you have to listen to it's movement.

You don't have the EventListener implementations from AWT to help you (i.e. mouseEntered, mouseExited...).

That makes no sense?

Ah, to be so young...  Grin  You should've been around when games were written in assembly for Vic-20!
3  Java Game APIs & Engines / Java 2D / Re: basic java games question on: 2003-01-05 11:54:36

hey, where's the shared code section??
i can't get to there
always stuck in this discussion forums section

It is one of the forums, see the forum index carefully, one of them is titled "Shared Code".

need many fullscreen exclusive tutorials, i need it bad  Wink

You have been to this page?

and what bout Applet and Application? which one is the best for developing RPG game??

That depends on you alone. Do you want the game to be played from web browser? Or do you want it to be a completely separate application. If you make it an applet, you may have to be more carefull about what version you use as not all browsers have the plugin installed. If you make it an application, you are more free to do what you will. If you make it an applet, it is simple for people to start playing. If it is an application, you must include instructions on how to install it, including mentioning that they must have JRE installed before. Have you read about Java Web Start? It is a way to install applications from web so it is easy to the customer. Go read about it at

by the way, what's VolatileImage? what's the difference from common Image?

VolatileImage is in the java.awt.image package. It was added to Java 1.4 so you can take advantage of hardware acceleration. It uses the fastest way on the current platform (on Win this means the graphics are stored directly in videoram, on Unix the graphics get direct access to X Server).
4  Java Game APIs & Engines / Java 2D / Re: basic java games question on: 2003-01-04 11:48:00
thanx the editor is very nice! i like it!  Grin
but.. it's not free....!?

Yeah, if you are honest, you'll pay the fee. But you can take your time testing the product as you are not missing anything as long as you don't pay, it's not some 30 day trial that expires. The only thing you see is once in a while, when you save a file, it will remind you that you haven't registered yet. That's all. A small annoyance. Pay for it, when you publish your fist game or something.  Grin

what's LWJGL??

LighWeight Java Gaming Library. It is a work in progress, version 0.4 if I remember correct. Contains low level libraries for graphics, audio and input devices. See

But if you are a total newbie, it may get a bit hairy at some times as it is yet a work in progress and that affects the level of documentation. If you are just beginning game stuff, you can use AWT for your first projects just fine (or even Swing if you don't mind it needs a lot of memory to work okay) and then try out LWJGL when you get to the point that you really need more control or speed than AWT gives you. AWT is fine for the games one can make when learning.

i use AWT now instead of SWING like u said

I use AWT for all my actual game projects at the moment (I'm not that experienced at making games) but I keep my eye on the progress of LWJGL just in case I want to try it out later.
5  Java Game APIs & Engines / Java 2D / Your favorite 2D and sprite tools? on: 2003-01-03 23:31:43
How do you create your 2D graphics?
How and with what tools do you create scenery?
How and with what tools do you create sprites?

I would love to give my own answers, but I haven't done any graphics before, I've just ripped stuff from other people's files when I needed to use something for a character in my animation...  Roll Eyes
6  Java Game APIs & Engines / Java 3D / Re: Quake II/III can be done in Java on: 2003-01-03 21:13:42
One thing that has been poking at me since the start of this thread: why hasn't anyone done this using gl4java?

A wild guess: those competent enough either

a) are not interested


b) do it in c++

7  Discussions / Business and Project Discussions / Re: Creating versions of classic arcade games on: 2003-01-03 21:11:09
Sigh... I'm a programmer, not a creative game designer:)  On the other hand, I love the classics.

I love them too.  Cool

Think of changing the names and places of the game, use your own graphics, imitate the gameplay. Then think "how would I make the classic even better?" and add/modify the game to enhance it. Then you'll catch two flies for one: 1) you created a retro-classic and 2) you made it better than the one you drew inspiration from.
8  Discussions / Business and Project Discussions / Re: Creating versions of classic arcade games on: 2003-01-03 19:54:12
Depends. I don't remember or even know exactly (I'm no lawyer) but the copyright laws have a time limit of some years, maybe 15, 20 or whatever. If the owner of the copyright renews his rights to the product, he can keep them. But if he doesn't do that (forgets, has no interest, he doesn't exist anymore...) then it becomes public domain. This is one of the reasons why everybody watches black'n'white movies in movies. If someone in a new movie was watching the new Spiderman movie and even a couple of seconds was seen in a tv-set on the background or something, they'd have to pay huge amounts of copyright payments. But they hunt some ages old black'n'white films which have expired copyrights and show the main characters watching them for free.

The surefire way is to get a written permission from the original copyright owner.

Another way is just to plagiarize, i.e. make a similar game, a clone, but don't make an exact replica. Call it Blocketyblock instead of Tetris and have some of the gameplay altered and you'll be fine.
9  Java Game APIs & Engines / Java 3D / Re: Quake II/III can be done in Java on: 2003-01-03 15:24:34
Yes, I believe that Asteroids can be done in Java as well.

I believe Q2 engine would go just fine in a non-fps game. If you had a slow paced adventure or RPG with that engine, the textures could be of a lot higher quality as the movement would be slower altogether, game concentrating on other issues than straight action.

Ever noticed that not all AAA-games are fpshooters?

I think there's too much talk about getting 100% equal or even faster than C++. If you get to 70% speed of C++ you can make market-accepted hit-games as long as you stay away from the fast-action-genre and stick to RPG, RTS, Adventure, etc.

Why then would you do a hit RPG or whatever with 70% the speed of C++? Because Java allows you to complete it half the time (incl. ports to several platforms if needed).
10  Game Development / Networking & Multiplayer / Re: DataInput vs. ByteArrayInput, and more... on: 2003-01-03 15:15:58
should the client only send data to server when it makes a move ore on a continual basis thru a thread loop.?

It really depends on the kind of game. If fast action is required, a loop may be better, because sometimes the network isn't working optimally, then if a package sent to one client is lost on the way, the client might not know something is happening, but the loop will send update info soon so the client will catch up even after a network clitch.

If you use a protocol that assures everyone gets every package of information before the action continues, you can do it without the loop.

Maybe you should implement both and try them out, which one actually works faster when YOU have done them? Such different modules mean a bit more work, but not much compared to all the other work you're going to do on the game, so it might be a worthwile learning experience for you to try them both.
11  Discussions / General Discussions / Re: Java people, don't waste your time! on: 2003-01-03 07:59:04
As nice as it looks, it technically dated.

Don't look at things so narrowly. Yes, for a Quake clone it would be an outdated engine. For an online RPG client it would be great.
12  Java Game APIs & Engines / J2ME / Re: Java games to be worth over US$3 billion on: 2003-01-03 05:54:06
Summer Games 2004, Freefall, Penguin Brothers, Highway Racer, Truck Racer and Pinball Castle.

I don't know about the availability of these games abroad, but when I test googled for some of them using search strings like

"summer games 2004" java

there were some links found to them, so go see some webpages if you're interested.
13  Java Game APIs & Engines / J2ME / Re: Java games to be worth over US$3 billion on: 2003-01-02 15:27:41
One day's total...

I bought an issue of a video gaming magazine on my way home. At home I found it had, among all the game reviews, six mobile Java games reviewed! And the reviews said the games were rather good. They were all tested on Nokia 3410 with black'n'white screen. The games also support color screens. This was a big suprise to me to find so many mobile Java games reviewed as normal video games.

Now, I just saw the evening news on tv. This christmas more cell phones were sold in Finland than any christmas before. And the sold-outs were all color screened Java phones!

Things seem just fine as far as I can see for Java mobile game programmers.  Cheesy

And here's a link to Taito Corp. in Japan, click on the english guidance link:
14  Java Game APIs & Engines / Java 2D / Re: basic java games question on: 2003-01-02 00:32:26
If you want speed, use LWJGL but you need to write everything yourself (like handling all mouse and keyboard input, drawing images etc.). If you want some stuff made ready for you (like ready-to-run mouse and keyboard listeners, drawing methods, etc.) use AWT, but that's slower. If you want a lot done for you, use Swing but that requires a fast pc with LOTS of RAM (Swing is built on top of AWT and adds to its features). You might want to check out Java3D too.

About fullscreen.. If you don't want to use it, you just put 'false' to those method calls where you set the screen attributes like width and height. If the method provides fullscreen mode, you can set it on with true and leave it off with false.

Try to edit with Textpad ( ) for starters. It is easy to start with but has LOTs of features for the advanced user. You definitely need syntax highlighting which Notepad wont give you. If you want to try an IDE, use Eclipse. But I recommend beginners use a text editor like Textpad or similar.
15  Game Development / Performance Tuning / Re: Going as low as possible without JNI on: 2002-12-30 17:20:40
This is pretty distressing. And, of course, pretty vague.

Quite so. Apparently it is best to experiment for best performance.
16  Java Game APIs & Engines / J2ME / Re: Java games to be worth over US$3 billion on: 2002-12-30 14:12:44
3d hardware acceleration for phones is on the way.

i've heard that some DOCOMO phones already have 3d devices.
Man, can't wait to play a FPS in 128*128 on a 2*2 'screen'.  Grin

Yeah... That is something I'm not that optimistic about. I believe the best cell phone games will be platform games (like Super Mario or Rayman on GBA), birdview adventures (like Zelda on GBA), birdview driving (GTA, Super Sprint, Death Rally (ok that was birdview 3d), 2d scrolling Shoot'em ups (Gauntlet, Into The Eagle's Nest, R-Type, Asteroids), small scale strategy/action games (Marble Madness, Trailblazer) just to name a few). As seen, to make it short, cell phones are a good platform for similar games that sell on GBA!

I mean, let's face it: people pay 100-150 bucks for GBA console. It's not a fad, the thing has lasted on the market for years! Publishers publish all the top games on GBA because it is a profitable market. They sell Tony Hawk, Harry Potter, LOTR, Spyro and all those like hotcakes - for 50 bucks each no less! Think about if people have the ability to play the same games on cell phones, with identical graphics and sound? Imagine if you can download the game with a single SMS message? Imagine it only costs a fraction of GBA games?
17  Java Game APIs & Engines / J2ME / Re: Java games to be worth over US$3 billion on: 2002-12-30 13:28:44
Hm, taking Moore's law into account I think we might be looking at nearly a decade or so before we see affordable mass-market Java phones with 2" screens with 4096 colours running at 50fps.

Nokia 7210 has 4096 colors with 128x128 pixels, price is about 500-600 euros/USD, space for six Java games.

Nokia 6610 gives same for about 400-500 bucks.

Nokia 3410 gives b/w Java games for 150 bucks.

Siemens M50 gives b/w Java games for 150 bucks.

I don't think price is the issue anymore. We have b/w Java games for less than 200, 4096 color Java for less than 500. Also the game keys are getting more common which makes playing even more enjoyable.

Even playing may seem tedious to some, fact is that the current cell phone games already are quite a hit. I see kids play them all the time, my girlfriend and her friends play them all the time. My girlfriend and her friends do not play PC games (except Win-solitaire once in a while).

So I do disagree strongly about it taking 10 years for having 4096 color Java games with affordable price and animation frame rate. We already have that.
18  Java Game APIs & Engines / J2ME / Re: Java games to be worth over US$3 billion on: 2002-12-30 09:05:07
I think my argument is against mobiles in general -
If you want to make a phone call, then you use a landline (its much cheaper, but a tiny bit less convenient)

That depends on where you live. I have heard that in the US mobile phone use is billed insanely (I've heard that sometimes the receiver of a call pays, is that true?). The reason I bought a cell phone in the first place, was that opening a landline account would have costed about ten times as much as opening a cell account and buying a cell phone.  I was a poor student with no such money, so I opted for the cheaper solution. Granted, now the calls cost so much I won't be making any one hour calls but hey if I need to talk to someone for an hour I'll go see them personally. BTW. At the moment I am using a cell phone account which grants me free SMS messages to five selected numbers. As most of my personal calls/messages are to about five numbers, I get to handle these free. My bill only grows when I make a call or when I send messages to someone not on the list of five numbers.

About going home and play with PC... You can't do that if the purpose is to spend the three hours I spend a day commuting to and from work online or playing games. I don't want to carry my PC along just to play some games on the bus.

About playing with 2x2 screen in general... Have you missed the GBA business scene altogether? Even my girlfriend has one! I had Atari Lynx when I was a kid too.

It won't be long till we have 2x2 screen with 4096 colours and 50 fps. With a multitap or online multiplayer gaming that will be plenty. It is with Gameboy, it was with Lynx and it will be for cell phones. And BTW. a standard GBA game costs between 30-60 bucks and people still buy them!

There's one thing I believe is different between mobile gaming audience and PC players. There are still lots of people who think playing PC games is nerdy. Especially lots of girls/women wouldn't think of playing PC games, or even dating a guy who spends hours playing such things. What I have noticed in my acquaintances is interesting: cell phone games are not considered nerdy. The gals who wouldn't touch Spyro The Dragon or Jack Jazzrabbit with a ten foot pole, are very happy to compete with each other who gets the highest score on Nokias Snake II  Cheesy I believe we have an untapped market segment there just waiting for the games that have been made for GBA for years!
19  Java Game APIs & Engines / J2ME / POLL: Do you have a Java phone? on: 2002-12-28 22:28:52
What kind of cell phone do you have/use? Does it have Java support for downloadable games?

I use Siemens with Java support.
20  Games Center / Archived Projects / Re: Made 2 games on: 2002-12-28 21:49:41
Great Tetris clone, way to go! Didn't try the other.
21  Game Development / Shared Code / Re: Any way to get near 100th nanosecond precision on: 2002-12-28 21:27:28
You probably won't get it though the standard API, as Java runs on so many platforms it can't promise such accuracy anyhow. Maybe JNI or something will help get through this (anyone?). The reason Thread.sleep() won't work is that you cannot make the thread start immediately after sleep. You can only say that it sleeps at least the given amount, but not that it continues immediately after that.
22  Discussions / Business and Project Discussions / Re: Why it'll take time for good Java games to app on: 2002-12-28 21:23:51
I think the impression of bureaucrazy comes from our committment to giving everyone a voice in the major decisions.

I never meant it as a negative. I'm a firm believer that JOSRTS will become something of value, if not a full blown game. But it is such a large project that it may be too much for total newbies, either really over their heads, or just too frightening (ya know, "I'm afraid I'll make a fool of myself" and so on). I was just stating that it would be nice to have a lot smaller and less frightening project open for those who have almost no experience about open-source team work and/or game development. Sort of "lets make a galaxian-clone as a team-work exercise - newbies welcome" kind of thing.

After that, those people could join JOSRTS with something valuable to contribute, and less fear.

23  Discussions / Business and Project Discussions / Re: Why it'll take time for good Java games to app on: 2002-12-28 18:06:55

A lot of ppl there also frequent JGO. It's still pretty early in the project but there is still plenty of chances to make suggestions on how you think the project should evolve.

Oh thanks! I wasn't aware of that project at all. I'll have to look into it!

But, that project seems quite serious, too much bureaucrazy and too much complicated high-tech. I was thinking more about something for the less experienced - kind of a practise project where people would get to know the basics of team work and simple game making tech.
24  Discussions / Business and Project Discussions / Re: Why it'll take time for good Java games to app on: 2002-12-28 17:24:34
Hmmm.... you think we only have this? Maybe we should think of this as a source of power. What could we do with this is what counts. Maybe we should start one open source project with the people of this board, as a common practice project for us all?
25  Java Game APIs & Engines / J2ME / Re: Java games to be worth over US$3 billion on: 2002-12-28 16:30:20
if thats true - then the world truely has gone mad.

I disagree. I thought the world was mad when people I knew spent huge amounts of money on ringtunes and logos! I never bought a single tune or logo.

But as many of my friends, I do play my cellphone's games now and then, but get bored of them quite quickly. Now all the phones have downloadable Java games and I like the idea of downloading new games when the old ones get boring. Thus far I haven't seen that many games available but definitely will buy when I see them.

What in particular do you think is so stupid about them? We buy PS games for 60 bucks, so why wouldn't you buy a new game for your phone for say three bucks?
26  Discussions / General Discussions / Re: I suggest SUN make Java capable of this on: 2002-12-28 16:23:34
They used Flash.
27  Discussions / Business and Project Discussions / Re: Why it'll take time for good Java games to app on: 2002-12-28 09:22:24
I do agree, however, that creating 3D games is a lot more work than your joe average 2D game.

Personally, I will stick to writing 2D games for some time now. The biggest problem I find is how to design a 2D game that is absolutely interesting and absorbing. It is easy to make "yet-another-scroller-2D" but how to make a 2D game that people might want to return to - even pay some money to play it... Now that's the tough part.
28  Discussions / Business and Project Discussions / Re: Why it'll take time for good Java games to app on: 2002-12-28 09:18:11
I think the genre that Java can really shine in will be the slower-paced games.  Strategy games like Age of Empires, Hearts of Iron, and that sort.  RPGs like Evercamp and Neverwinter Nights (Magicosm comes to mind).  Basically anything where "twitch" reflexes aren't a big part of gameplay will do well in Java.

At the moment yes. By the time I'll have the skills to produce a game like Quake, the standard player machina will be about 8000 Ghz Intel Umptium Pro with 2Gb of RAM. Then you can do your JQuake if you want. But it won't sell, because it will be lightyears from what people are already doing with C/C++ when theyre writing a sequel to the top seller Ultimate Reality Quake Online.  Grin
29  Game Development / Networking & Multiplayer / Re: Converting Slime Volleyball to online play? on: 2002-12-27 21:15:10
Hi, I am new to java programming, but I was wondering if there would be some (potentially easy) way to convert a game which is multiplayer on the same computer into a game which could be played between two computers? The game I have in mind is slime volleyball, which can be seen here:

How would I go about turning this into a network game? Thank you for any help or advice you can give me.

I don't know how the game handles it's player input, but here's how I'd go about it. I'd remove the player i/o into a separate component. Then I'd hide it behind an abstraction layer. Sort of a "black box" operating through an interface. Then after it works fine, I'd modify the component hiding behind the interface.  Only one player's input is read from local device. The other player's input is received from a network socket. Then the local player's input is sent to the socket. As long as you can stay "black boxed" behind the interface, you don't have to touch the game code. Hopefully!  Roll Eyes

Of course it's not as simple as that but you'll figure it out when you're doing it. First step is to completely remove the keyb/mouse/pad reading from the actual game and hide it behind an interface.
30  Discussions / Business and Project Discussions / Re: Return of the Independent Game Developer? on: 2002-12-27 18:26:51
After witnessing what logos, tunes and such did for SMS/GSM service business, I am a firm believer in the Java games that can be downloaded to mobile phones. The deployment of Java games for them is so simple anyone can do them.

See for some nice ideas about future of "indie" game development! (EDIT: Oh there was a link in the article you referred to... Wink )
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