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1  Game Development / Performance Tuning / Re: multithreading on "normal" CPUs on: 2006-08-06 21:59:48
I did propose a RFE based on a draft of the code of that project. It was reviewed (pretty rapidly, imho), but got rejected. (too rapidly, imho)
Of course, they were right to do so and the comments that were added to explain their decision were just as right.
I don't know anyway if the way i did it is the right way for the platform, but i think that even as i did it it would help people that use the millisecond timer basically.
[edit] the project takes all the remarks of rejection in account and tries to solve them. Nevertheless, nothing's perfect and even if the project is clean and problems are taken in account, it might not be fine for integration.
2  Game Development / Performance Tuning / Re: multithreading on "normal" CPUs on: 2006-08-03 09:24:23
Because nanosecond timer does not give you date (which can be important if that info is also used to tick other actions in game loop).
I agree of course that to just get elapsed time between two frames, nanotimer is fine.
That was mainly just to mention that there is a windows solution to currentTimeMillis(), sorry if it became a perturbance.

Oh, well.. Errr, anyway, i said it was a shameless plug.  Wink  Grin
3  Game Development / Performance Tuning / Re: multithreading on "normal" CPUs on: 2006-08-02 11:47:22
thank you commanderkeith,

how can i determine the time, that is "in between paints"? (i am using jogl, btw)
My pleasure.  System.nanoTime() (don't use System.currentTimeMillis(), it gives resolution of about 35 ms on windows).
here is the time for my shameless plug.  Grin
https://preciseinternaldate.dev.java.net/ is a project that aims to provide a quick replacement for System.currentTimeMillis(). It is millisecond precise even on windows. (no DLL involved, but 1.5 minimum)
4  Java Game APIs & Engines / Tools Discussion / Re: Installing eclipse on a flash drive? on: 2006-08-02 09:06:17
... but you can use a microdrive, which is about as slow as flash, but has the advantage of not being sensible to write problems flash memory has.
It's about the same price, nowadays. [edit] or even cheaper for big storage capacities
[edit] the failure of a flash memory is not an eventuality, it's part of it. Most chips have a write capacity of about 100000 per bit, that is, write 100000 times the same bit and bang, it's out.
5  Java Game APIs & Engines / Java 2D / Re: using already accelerated data on: 2006-07-27 09:04:50
Oh, i'ts worse than i expected, but i should have expected that. Smiley
Content of image buffer ought to change at 50 or 60 hz. I think that it should be quite manageable to transfer a buffer to volatile at that rate, even for HD res images..

Count me in for a request about NIO databuffer support. that would surely help a lot in my world of mixed-origin media handling.
6  Java Game APIs & Engines / Xith3D Forums / Re: Porting Quake III to Java3D on: 2006-07-26 13:55:36
and what about porting quake 3 in an applet Wink ?

http://dzzd.net/demo/QUAKE/

this will start in soft mode press "H" for about one second to switch to hardware (JOGL)

just for fun...


Awwww, the controls.. Almost became mad at cam direction control and i did quit within seconds... Too bad, fior that point, otherwise, it looked interesting...
7  Java Game APIs & Engines / Java 2D / Re: using already accelerated data on: 2006-07-26 12:19:26
Yes, i had fiddled with jawt some time ago..  i try to avoid doing things like that as much as possible..   Cool

Anyway, i have an other question on that topic.
What if i create a bufferedimage from a dataBuffer (created from native code) that uses a natively allocated buffer,  which buffer resides in AGP memory zone?
If i blit that bufferedimage onto an accelerated bufferedimage (let it be volatile or automatic, if that is important), is there something done on your side to test for various things and eventually avoid some steps, like transfers or whatever?

I'm afraid it is a dumb question, i'm not much aware of the mechanisms that you use. Huh Embarrassed
8  Java Game APIs & Engines / Java 2D / Re: using already accelerated data on: 2006-07-24 13:01:48
This is java related, somewhat.
I'm asked to make a lib that would take the display surface of a directshow graph, draw a bunch of things using java2d and then display the whole on an other surface.
What i'm looking for is a way to have java2d draw on that surface using an accelerated BufferedImage.
To be true, i believe that it is not possible and should not be possible (for architectural reasons), but.. i have to ask anyway.
9  Java Game APIs & Engines / Java 2D / using already accelerated data on: 2006-07-20 15:15:50
Hello.
I have a problematic request.
I have to make some activeX that should display its own things and... images given from the outside.
I'm asked to be able to blit on my surface some bitmaps that are already on the graphic adapter, without transfering them to memory.
(i make the assumption that the destination bitmap will also be in graphic adapter, of course, and that the operation is accelerated )
Is that possible, as far as you know?
10  Games Center / Archived Projects / Re: Cosmic Birdie Tech Demo Release on: 2006-07-18 11:08:44
i tried the demo, and i can't start the game.
I select free play, then i get the pilot selection page, and then.. well, clicking on a pilot shows a selection mark, but nothing happens. if i move the mouse out of the button, the mark disappears. I can select other pilots, but it acts the same.
did i miss something obvious?
i'm using sun's 1.5.0_06.
11  Discussions / General Discussions / Re: Do you think 2D platform games are dead? on: 2006-06-24 15:05:13
I'm wrong, sorry.  I never actually used rotate, I was just regurgitating what I read somewhere... but on trying it you're right.  And yes scaling is fine, I never said otherwise. 

Alpha bitmasking & blending is terrible though.  Even on state-of-the-art computers the I get <20FPS, on old computers the FPS is <5.  But then when using full screen mode with 16bit pixel depth alpha blending flies - must be because there's no need to convert 16bit to 32bit pixel depth - but how is someone new to java2D meant to know this?  I only found out about it recently from reading Chet & Chris C's blogs.  Its stuff like this which makes J2D hard & seemingly delicate.

I am just saying that 2D rendering with Java2D isn't super high performance.  When I run my super-basic 2D game on a state of the art computer  I should expect an FPS greater than 40 but so often that is not the case.  Nevertheless I love J2D and think that low-ish performance is the price I have to pay to get my game running on any machine without (driver) problems.
Okay for scaling. Nevertheless, blending and rotating isn't an issue, as far as i found. It depends on what you call a state-of-the-art computer, but i get generally 50 to 60fps drawing over 100 32 bits sprites, all scaled, some rotated, sometimes with global alpha applied, sometimes vector clipped, on a 1.8ghz P4 laptop. That is without any J2D flag applied.
To the opposite of your experience, going fullscreen actually slows down to 10fps. I didn't investigate the reasons for that. Maybe i should.


I plan on making a second gamechmark that would be a complete platform game, à la mario with constantly scaled/rotated sprites. We'll see what it gives.
12  Discussions / General Discussions / Re: Do you think 2D platform games are dead? on: 2006-06-23 12:05:07
I was really only saying that over-draw is still bad and you have to know what you're doing when using Java2D since its hardware acceleration is fragile (eg can't rotate images, can't manipulate pixels, must enable options on windows like ddforcevram).
I strongly disagree. you CAN rotate and scale your sprites, even with alpha and still have descent to pretty neat framerates.
13  Discussions / General Discussions / Re: Wurm Online has gone GOLD! on: 2006-06-09 15:49:01
Logged in again and i laughed my ass out when i entered the newtown bistro and saw the name of the chef....
... chef Kesselman... Smiley
Very good one..
About GL rendering of components, i've sent you a PM on your boards.
14  Java Game APIs & Engines / Tools Discussion / Re: Sun's big netbeans strategy and why it will fail on: 2006-06-09 10:17:12
The way Sun promotes Netbeans seems like they're desperate for users.  It's better now, but a little while ago you had to be on your toes when downloading the JDK or you'd accidentally end up getting Netbeans along with it.  I'd like to shoot whoever decided to bury the link to vanilla JDK downloads in favor of the JDK/IDE bundle.  I think I remember reading an article where Sun said Netbeans had more users than Eclipse simply because more people were downloading it (curiously, this was after the "dreaded bundle").  Every now and then I'm guilty of accidentally downloading Netbeans when It's bundled with something else.  Apparantly this makes me a Netbeans developer?!    Huh
That was more than two years ago. Netbeans now uses much more accurate ways to know how many people actually USE the IDE. Sure, the direction they choose to count can drastically reduce the count as some users will never be counted, but i think that's pretty honest from them.

Quote taken from a recent javalobby thread: http://www.javalobby.org/java/forums/m91997965.html#91997965
Quote
The NetBean stats are not tracking downloads or website hits - since it ties into the update center (*normally* connected to on start-up) and includes a unique ID, it allows for meaningful statistics to be gathered on the whole population. Of course, if someone can't connect to the update center (firewall or similar) or turns off the automatic aspect and doesn't connect manually then they are not counted. For the statistics given, it takes 2 hits from the same user (install-id) per month to give a single "hit" - in other words, approximately 200,000 users ran NetBeans twice in Feb 2006 and connected to the update center.
Roumen's blog is even more detailed and shows a simple graphic about user base growth: http://blogs.sun.com/roller/page/roumen?entry=netbeans_growth_questioned
If the numbers are real, i think that if sun/netbeans is desperate for users, at least they succeed. But i don't think they are desperate as they have users, and a good amount.
15  Java Game APIs & Engines / Tools Discussion / Re: Next versions of popular IDEs (Netbeans and Eclipse) on: 2006-06-09 09:11:45
When you double click on a method/behaviour on the UML diagram does it take you to the method so you can edit it, if it does can you use a shortcut to go back to the diagram you were just editing?
Double clicking the method/property on the diagram edits it. Good thing is that it refactors automatically your projects and all that depend on it if you change the name/types.
You can 'navigate to source' any element of the diagram, but it takes a right click and a small visit to a contextual menu. I found no way to associate a shortcut to that operation. I agree that it would be useful.
Navigating back is just a matter of clicking on the uml tab. Unfortunatly, the navigation shortcut don't work to jump back to the right diagram, they only work to jump from one source to an other.
I'll submit RFEs to the uml project.
16  Java Game APIs & Engines / Tools Discussion / Re: Next versions of popular IDEs (Netbeans and Eclipse) on: 2006-06-08 14:56:53
I consider Poseidon a useless tool.  You could waste hours fiddling with it when you could be accomplishing something.  If NetBeans is worse then I will never use it.
It is worse in the way that you have to go to the palette all the time to act on your graph, while Poseidon has a better GUI. That's all. Other than that, i find it better as it has much more powerful options.

If they have managed to find a way to keep all the trivial classes that you don't want ot know about out of the way and off the diagrams.. in some way that doesn't require hours of fiddling.. and if the UML & source are always in sync with out ever having to press even a single key to sync them...  and if it gets to the point that I could write almost my entire program by drawing the UML then fleshing out some methods in the source editor.... only then will UML be worth anything at all to me.  Otherwise it is a distraction that simply sucks away time I could be using to get work done.  On much larger projects with much larger teams working on the same code, things could work differently... but so far I have never seen a UML tool that wasn't a significantly negative factor in terms of doing any real development... pen and paper have been far more efficient thus far.  (And to think some companies think we should pay for that decreased productivity Smiley)
You put the classes you want in your diagrams. So if there are classes you don't want to see there, just remove them from the diagram (but not from the model)
Everything is always synched, which is why it sometimes lags a bit.
You can make much everything in the diagram, then fill the methods. I did it and it works fine.

I don't agree with your vision of the usefulness of ULM. when you are designing something with more people than you alone, 'fiddling' an uml graph is much faster and cleaner than using paper and eraser. Moreover, once everyone agrees, you can immediatly start coding as all classes are ready to be filled. Also, explaining a lib or the architecture of your code is much easier with an UML graph than with code or abstract explaination. But as always, YMMV...
17  Java Game APIs & Engines / Tools Discussion / Re: Next versions of popular IDEs (Netbeans and Eclipse) on: 2006-06-07 11:04:41
I'm actually using 5.5 and i have to admit that the UML features are fantastic. It's not as user friendly as Poseidon, but it's definitively not a problem.
However, when developing, i close the UML project as it slows down work process (you can feel pauses all the time when it's synchronizing data between model and code). I guess there is a customizable delay somewhere.. Changing it might help.

Refactoring from the UML is nice too, but lacks some uesability too. Sometimes, it come asking you answers to some questions, but does not give you complete description about implementation of methods from a source class, which can lead to some panic (no "do nothing button" )

Other than that, it works like a charm and is really powerful.
18  Java Game APIs & Engines / Tools Discussion / Re: Sun's big netbeans strategy and why it will fail on: 2006-06-06 08:13:35
Eclipse compiles the file you're working on as you type. You don't even have to save to see errors.

Cas Smiley
Is this related to the compile and hotfix point we were discussing ?

I don't think it compiles the file as much as it just does a syntax and reference check.   NetBeans tries to do the same thing, just 100 times slower and less reliable.
I generally set automatic parsing to 250ms delay, it has always detected everything the compiler ought to detect and never slowed me down. You might had a different experience,  but in my case it works pretty well, that is without problems. Maybe that slowness you feel is related to the delay that is set by default (1200ms, iirc). Even with long sources (1-2k lines), i get the errors right after i stop typing and i get all of them.
19  Java Game APIs & Engines / Tools Discussion / Re: Sun's big netbeans strategy and why it will fail on: 2006-06-05 17:29:59
Eclipse already detects when your changes will break things and tell you.

Cas Smiley
I doubt it will detect that an algorithm that you saved in one file will lead to crash/instable state in one of a class that you intended to edit and save right after that one.. Wink Wink
20  Java Game APIs & Engines / Tools Discussion / Re: Sun's big netbeans strategy and why it will fail on: 2006-06-05 15:28:01
Another thing I forgot to mention when comparing with Eclipse is the automatic compilation on every save...  it really speeds things up combined with not having to relaunch the app.  Half the time I'm coding the application is running in the Eclipse debugger at the same time.  It would be great if NetBeans did something similar.. even if it did take a second or two longer.   There have been several times when using NetBeans that I wonder why my code is behaving as if the fix I just made wasn't applied - because I forgot to actually do a compile of course Smiley... I just have gotten used to having the code ready to run all the time without thinking about it.
I'm not sure that this feature ought to be really fine. I use netbeans and also took as a habit to have my code always running in the debugger and submit hotfixes without restarting the program. When i save files they are not necessary intended to be submited as hotfix. Having the IDE doing it when not needed could/would break my running program more often than it would help me.
I prefer hitting the "apply code change" button myself when i estimate that it can be flwlessly submitted than letting the IDE do it for me all the time and break what's running.
21  Discussions / General Discussions / Re: Will we have Java on PS3 ? on: 2006-05-30 13:29:14
Apparantly it's some private slow-ass J2ME style VM for running stuff on the DVD menus. Nothing useful for us.

Cas Smiley
I don't even imagine what java has to do for that..

IMHO, they should not have talked about it.
"heh, we have java in the space shuttle"
" oh, great. In the cockpit? For the communications between earth and shuttle? To manipulate the robotic arm?"
" erm... errr.. nah, we display earth time in the locker's room..."
22  Discussions / General Discussions / Re: Will we have Java on PS3 ? on: 2006-05-29 15:09:12
Pardon me to resurrect an old thread, but after reading news of this year's javaone, i came to read this page
http://java.sun.com/javaone/sf/sessions/general/sun_friday.jsp
where this sentence caught my eyes..
"Many consumer products are Java technology-powered, including the upcoming Sony PlayStation 3, to be released in the fall."

Info? intox? did i miss something? I rushed here and found no bold-huge-sized-blinking announce about that, so i believe that i might not be the only one to have missed it.
Has anyone got something on that subject?
23  Java Game APIs & Engines / Java 3D / Re: Commercial Games on: 2006-05-26 16:44:41
i guess i'm going offtopic.. I don't want to discuss anyone's choice, but JCreator is not written in java, but in "a native Windows language" (heh, not saying C/C++, does it mean Delphi ? Wink )
Philosophically, how do you percieve that ?
24  Java Game APIs & Engines / Java 3D / Re: Commercial Games on: 2006-05-26 11:50:14
Hi,

Can i make commercial games with java(from sun)+jogl(opengl)+gel(IDE)?
I mean without pay for any license.

I know that this isn't the best place to asking about this, but i'll apreciate any help.

Thanks.
Just a question to satisfy my curiousity..
Why GEL? it's been stopped over one year ago and certainly lacks some language features you might need. (moreover, Delphi seems to go in the direction of a rapid death so i wonder for how long anyone will be able to maintain it.. )
25  Game Development / Performance Tuning / Re: GC Lag Question on: 2006-05-05 17:00:32
.../...
That said, we are running in 10 second pauses on 8 cpu machine with concurrent gc.... and we are allocating modest 2-3MB of memory per second, most of it never leaving the eden space (less than 1MB promoted to old generation every 10 seconds) with total heap size of 1-1.5GB. Fortunately it is not an interactive game...
Shocked
Do you mean that you are having 10 second long pauses due to collection of eden?
[edit] did you tune the eden, or things like that? what is the occurency of the pauses?
26  Game Development / Performance Tuning / Re: GC Lag Question on: 2006-05-05 09:28:34
And whats your/the conclusion?
Sorry if I am a bit harsh, but I wonder about the sence of this discussion Wink

lg Clemens
That's exactly what i thought... not being able to render 1000fps flawlessly is out of reality.
Being able to have a 60fps game that does not stutter is a goal that can be achieved easily now, and imho that's enough for most of us.
Moreover, with the generalization to come of multi-core processors, asynchronous GC will be more and more imperceptible.
Even i, who does applications that have very precise and short timings to comply to when displaying images is not bothered (that much) by GC.

Of course, having smaller/sliced full GCs would complete the set, as nothing would stop renders anymore, but i think we can already be pretty happy with what we have since 1.4.
27  Game Development / Performance Tuning / Re: GC Lag Question on: 2006-05-03 09:57:28
I'm with CAS on that one.
"Life fast, die young" should be the motto of your objects. The JVM is much more capable in pooling objects than you will ever be so don't waste time even thinking about it.
28  Java Game APIs & Engines / Java 2D / Re: Java2d too slow for 2d games ? on: 2006-05-03 07:08:37
If you have the time to provide a small demo that would be cool. Maybe we can turn this into a performance guide or a peformance tuning tutorial.
Yes, certainly. just click the jnlp link in my signature. feel free to report the informations that will be copied into your clipboard after the gamechmark ends.
If you want more informations on the project, go to my home page and read the pdf.
29  Java Game APIs & Engines / Java 2D / Re: Java2d too slow for 2d games ? on: 2006-05-02 21:56:10
Java2D is not slow, as far as i experienced. In the same vein, i didn't find GC to cause problems. Did you profile for the reasons of your pauses? Not that i exclude GC to be the cause, but i wonder what is the cause of the long GC. I would suggest that you use the GC log options to get rapid idea of the importance of GCs  and their type. (fullGC?)
You can show pretty bunches of alpha composited sprites realtime zoomed and rotated in a game that runs without hiccups, even under heavy (heavy heavy) GC conditions. I did that, and there's no magic, not even a single GC/VM option tweak.
30  Game Development / Shared Code / Re: millisecond & nanosecond precision replacement for system.currentTimeMillis( on: 2006-04-27 12:49:15
Just in case someone is interested, i did open a java.net project with a much better (documented, clean, enhanced) version of that code.
https://preciseinternaldate.dev.java.net/
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