BTW I can't get the xtrans demo to work at all. Any hints what type of debugging I need to turn on ? Basically the window just popus up and freezes and nothing shows, how do I know if it's a driver problem?

D:\jogl\jogl-demos\src>java -Dsun.java2d.opengl=true demos.xtrans.Main
WGLGraphicsConfig_initWGL
OGLFuncs_OpenLibrary
OGLFuncs_InitPlatformFuncs
OGLFuncs_InitBaseFuncs
WGLGraphicsConfig_getWGLConfigInfo
OGLFuncs_InitExtFuncs
WGLGC_GetPixelFormatForDC
[V]   candidate pixel formats:
[V]     pixfmt=7 db=1 alpha=0 depth=24 stencil=0 valid=true
[V]     pixfmt=8 db=1 alpha=8 depth=24 stencil=0 valid=false (large depth)
[V]     pixfmt=9 db=1 alpha=0 depth=24 stencil=8 valid=false (large depth)
[V]     pixfmt=10 db=1 alpha=8 depth=24 stencil=8 valid=false (large depth)
[V]     pixfmt=13 db=1 alpha=0 depth=24 stencil=0 valid=false (large depth)
[V]     pixfmt=14 db=1 alpha=8 depth=24 stencil=0 valid=false (large depth)
[V]     pixfmt=15 db=1 alpha=0 depth=24 stencil=8 valid=false (large depth)
[V]     pixfmt=16 db=1 alpha=8 depth=24 stencil=8 valid=false (large depth)
[V]     pixfmt=19 db=1 alpha=0 depth=24 stencil=0 valid=false (large depth)
[V]     pixfmt=20 db=1 alpha=8 depth=24 stencil=0 valid=false (large depth)
[V]     pixfmt=21 db=1 alpha=0 depth=24 stencil=8 valid=false (large depth)
[V]     pixfmt=22 db=1 alpha=8 depth=24 stencil=8 valid=false (large depth)
[V]     pixfmt=25 db=1 alpha=0 depth=24 stencil=0 valid=false (large depth)
[V]     pixfmt=26 db=1 alpha=8 depth=24 stencil=0 valid=false (large depth)
[V]     pixfmt=27 db=1 alpha=0 depth=24 stencil=8 valid=false (large depth)
[V]     pixfmt=28 db=1 alpha=8 depth=24 stencil=8 valid=false (large depth)
[V]     pixfmt=31 db=1 alpha=0 depth=24 stencil=0 valid=false (large depth)
[V]     pixfmt=32 db=1 alpha=8 depth=24 stencil=0 valid=false (large depth)
[V]     pixfmt=33 db=1 alpha=0 depth=24 stencil=8 valid=false (large depth)
[V]     pixfmt=34 db=1 alpha=8 depth=24 stencil=8 valid=false (large depth)
[V]     pixfmt=37 db=1 alpha=0 depth=24 stencil=0 valid=false (large depth)
[V]     pixfmt=38 db=1 alpha=8 depth=24 stencil=0 valid=false (large depth)
[V]     pixfmt=39 db=1 alpha=0 depth=24 stencil=8 valid=false (large depth)
[V]     pixfmt=40 db=1 alpha=8 depth=24 stencil=8 valid=false (large depth)
[V]     pixfmt=43 db=1 alpha=0 depth=24 stencil=0 valid=false (large depth)
[V]     pixfmt=44 db=1 alpha=8 depth=24 stencil=0 valid=false (large depth)
[V]     pixfmt=45 db=1 alpha=0 depth=24 stencil=8 valid=false (large depth)
[V]     pixfmt=46 db=1 alpha=8 depth=24 stencil=8 valid=false (large depth)
[V]     pixfmt=49 db=1 alpha=0 depth=24 stencil=0 valid=false (large depth)
[V]     pixfmt=50 db=1 alpha=8 depth=24 stencil=0 valid=false (large depth)
[V]     pixfmt=51 db=1 alpha=0 depth=24 stencil=8 valid=false (large depth)
[V]     pixfmt=52 db=1 alpha=8 depth=24 stencil=8 valid=false (large depth)
[V]     pixfmt=1829812196 db=1 alpha=8 depth=24 stencil=8 valid=false (large dep
th)
[V]     pixfmt=369169695 db=1 alpha=8 depth=24 stencil=8 valid=false (large dept
h)
[V]     pixfmt=727811152 db=1 alpha=8 depth=24 stencil=8 valid=false (large dept
h)
[V]     pixfmt=45078528 db=1 alpha=8 depth=24 stencil=8 valid=false (large depth
)
[V]     pixfmt=717688600 db=1 alpha=8 depth=24 stencil=8 valid=false (large dept
h)
[V]     pixfmt=58915308 db=1 alpha=8 depth=24 stencil=8 valid=false (large depth
)
[V]     pixfmt=0 db=1 alpha=8 depth=24 stencil=8 valid=false (large depth)
[V]     pixfmt=0 db=1 alpha=8 depth=24 stencil=8 valid=false (large depth)
WGLGC_GetPixelFormatForDC: chose 7 as the best pixel format
OGLContext_IsExtensionAvailable: GL_ARB_fragment_shader=true
OGLContext_IsExtensionAvailable: GL_ARB_multitexture=true
OGLContext_IsExtensionAvailable: GL_ARB_texture_non_power_of_two=true
OGLContext_IsExtensionAvailable: GL_ARB_texture_rectangle=true
OGLContext_IsExtensionAvailable: GL_EXT_framebuffer_object=true
OGLContext_IsFBObjectExtensionAvailable: fbobject supported
OGLContext_IsLCDShaderSupportAvailable: LCD text shader supported
OGLContext_IsBIOpShaderSupportAvailable: BufferedImageOp shader supported
OGLContext_IsGradShaderSupportAvailable: Linear/RadialGradientPaint shader s
upported
OGLContext_IsExtensionAvailable: GL_NV_fragment_program=true
OGLContext_IsExtensionAvailable: GL_NV_fragment_program2=true
WGLGraphicsConfig_getWGLConfigInfo: OpenGL version=2.0.1
OGLContext_IsExtensionAvailable: WGL_ARB_pbuffer=true
OGLContext_IsExtensionAvailable: WGL_ARB_make_current_read=true
OGLContext_IsExtensionAvailable: WGL_ARB_pixel_format=true

If I resize the (now frozen window) I get this;

[E] WGLSD_MakeCurrentToScratch: could not make current
[E] OGLSD_InitTextureObject: actual (w=45078528 h=45078528) != requested
[E] OGLSurfaceData_initFBObject: could not init texture object
[E] WGLSD_MakeCurrentToScratch: could not make current
[E] WGLSD_MakeCurrentToScratch: could not make current
[E] WGLSD_MakeCurrentToScratch: could not make current
[E] WGLSD_MakeCurrentToScratch: could not make current
[E] WGLSD_MakeCurrentToScratch: could not make current
[E] WGLSD_MakeCurrentToScratch: could not make current
[E] WGLSD_MakeCurrentToScratch: could not make current
[E] WGLSD_MakeCurrentToScratch: could not make current
[E] WGLSD_MakeCurrentToScratch: could not make current
[E] WGLSD_MakeCurrentToScratch: could not make current
[E] WGLSD_MakeCurrentToScratch: could not make current
[E] WGLSD_MakeCurrentToScratch: could not make current
[E] OGLSD_InitTextureObject: actual (w=45078528 h=45078528) != requested
[E] OGLSurfaceData_initFBObject: could not init texture object
[E] WGLSD_MakeCurrentToScratch: could not make current
[E] OGLSD_InitTextureObject: actual (w=45078528 h=45078528) != requested
[E] OGLSurfaceData_initFBObject: could not init texture object
[E] OGLSD_MakeOGLContextCurrent: could not make current
[E] OGLContext_SetSurfaces: could not make context current
[E] WGLSD_MakeCurrentToScratch: could not make current
[E] WGLSD_MakeCurrentToScratch: could not make current
[E] OGLSD_MakeOGLContextCurrent: could not make current
[E] OGLContext_SetSurfaces: could not make context current
[E] WGLSD_MakeCurrentToScratch: could not make current
[E] WGLSD_MakeCurrentToScratch: could not make current
[E] WGLSD_MakeCurrentToScratch: could not make current
[E] OGLSD_MakeOGLContextCurrent: could not make current
[E] OGLContext_SetSurfaces: could not make context current

Any ideas?

> Don't you want to render the map in 3D to get the proper isometric perspective?

That would be nice, but the information we have is very flat, is has no z information, so it's practically impossible. That would be very neat, but it's really 2D drawings.

The reason I want to do this is just to experiment to see how 3D visualizations can help you analyse this type of information. When you add the values (what I want to project from the map) to the coordinates, then you get a quick view of problem areas.

Thanks for the suggestions, I have a lot of stuff to learn, I just wanted to make sure I'm using the right tool. This is not for a game, but it seems like a perfect fit.

... is jogl the right hammer?

Basically, I have a 2D renderer written in Java2D for all kinds of schematics and maps (not quite GIS) that we use a lot. One of the features we'd like to play with is the following;

Say we have a small map rendered in 2D of a geographical area. Scattered across this maps we have "values" we track that are defined at different levels across the map.

What I'd like to do is rotate the map a bit, (or let users rotate the map) say like an isometric version of it. Then have the values that are contained in the map be represented by 3d lines (maybe normalized) that graphically show what values are higher than the others. At one point, I might even want to create a mesh with these values, but for now imagine they are just cylinders that project from the 2d map.

So if I understand jogl well enough, the apporach should be to somehow grab the rendered image from my JComponent that draws maps (this is easy) and then load that image as a texture on a square surface.

When I redraw the image, I update the texture.

Does this make sense or am I making my life more complicated? I seem to remember some library out there, maybe for Java3D that would let you project the drawing of a JComponent onto a 3D surface. I may have imagined this :-)

Is jogl the right technology for this, or should I look at something more high level. For this functionality, which seems fairly simple, it seems jogl is a good fit.

Any ideas, opions? Thanks!

I tought it was a hoax too, I'm still not convinced it's a real thing to be quite honest.

To be fair, they did show a box (ugly btw), and I think it had a keyboard. What  caught my attention was that they didn't show anything running on it, so as far as I know, it could be filled with sewage water instead of circuits.

I heard on the floor, they demod something on E3? Can anybody confirm this?

I'm surprised nobody seems to have mentioned this on the site, the big gaming announcement today at JavaOne was that they showed the Phantom console and it will support Java games.

I met Chris yesterday, and he hinted there was going to be some exciting development when I asked him about consoles. Congrats to Chris and the team for finally getting Java on a console.

Having said that, I won't lie and say I'd have hoped the console was PS3, or PSP or even XBox. For a second there I tought it was going to be the XBox. The Phantom console, I have mixed feelings here. Until not to long ago, I tought this console was total vaporware, and there's been a lot of articles about it.

They showed the console, but nothing was running on it, so I'm kinda worried here. Anyways, I don't want to be pessimistic, I hope this works. I hope to hear more details about this soon ...

And now, Chris, what's up with Sony? There's no dialog between you guys and them? At the very least we should get Java Games on the PSP!

Yes on mouse sensitivity.

I tried Alpha 2 and seems to work on my desktop.

With the latest one, I'm getting this:

Java Web Start 1.2 Console, started Fri Mar 21 17:37:41 EST 2003

Java 2 Runtime Environment: Version 1.4.1_02 by Sun Microsystems Inc.

Logging to file: C:\Documents and Settings\Augusto\Desktop\webstartlog.txt

Failed to reserve AGP ram.

org.lwjgl.openal.OpenALException: Unable to load function pointers to openal.

     at org.lwjgl.openal.BaseAL.nCreate(Native Method)

     at org.lwjgl.openal.BaseAL.create(BaseAL.java:77)

     at com.shavenpuppy.jglib.openal.AL.<init>(AL.java:122)

     at xap.Game.init(Game.java:386)

     at xap.Game.main(Game.java:229)

     at sun.reflect.NativeMethodAccessorImpl.invoke0(Native Method)

     at sun.reflect.NativeMethodAccessorImpl.invoke(NativeMethodAccessorImpl.java:39)

     at sun.reflect.DelegatingMethodAccessorImpl.invoke(DelegatingMethodAccessorImpl.java:25)

     at java.lang.reflect.Method.invoke(Method.java:324)

     at com.sun.javaws.Launcher.executeApplication(Unknown Source)

     at com.sun.javaws.Launcher.executeMainClass(Unknown Source)

     at com.sun.javaws.Launcher.continueLaunch(Unknown Source)

     at com.sun.javaws.Launcher.handleApplicationDesc(Unknown Source)

     at com.sun.javaws.Launcher.handleLaunchFile(Unknown Source)

     at com.sun.javaws.Launcher.run(Unknown Source)

     at java.lang.Thread.run(Thread.java:536)


I have a PII 400 Win2K (serv pck 3) 256M with an NVIDIA GeForce4 MX 420. AGP 2x 64MB, Direct X 8.1

What? No support for cheap ATI Mobility M6 laptop video cards?

I didn't read your requirements, so I rant it anyways and got this;


Resetting feature: jelly_incursion
java.lang.NullPointerException
Fatal Error: JNI methodID = 0 (maybe incomplete .usg file)
Runtime error #9301(trap) in JET
Please, contact Excelsior Support Dept. at support@excelsior-usa.com


Well, the card is not supported. So I guess it's not a bug.

What is the purpose of that forum? It doesn't seem to be clearly stated.

Where's the artwork?

The biggest discussion is something about it "being a Snow day".

Since I live in Florida, maybe this new forum is not aimed at people like me. :-)

http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.4/docs/tooldocs/windows/jar.html

How are you creating the jar file?

Anyways, sounds like you need to use the -C option, make it go to the top directory (above your com hirarchy) and then the path should be relative from there.

http://rnvs.informatik.tu-chemnitz.de/~jan/MPEG/MPEG_Play.html

http://www-3.ibm.com/software/awdtools/hotmedia/


You don't want JMF, but IBM has a pure Java MPEG encoder. But it requires JMF;

http://www.alphaworks.ibm.com/tech/mpeg-4

There are a lot more out there, google is your friend.

What does it do for me? I have no idea, that's the whole point. I've never seen even a white paper for it.

Once again, is this JSR alive?

Well, 1.4 already has a logger API. And if you don't like that one, there's always log4j.

http://jakarta.apache.org/log4j/docs/

I did a similar log class like yours, of course, it's not obsolete. :-)

This is the most mysterious JSR and API spec release in the history of computing, still nothing!

It's either cancelled, or it will cure world hunger when released.

Hello?!?! Anybody out there?

What makes PS2 (there you go Conzar ) better than XBox?

Name brand.

Good marketing.

LOTS of games.

Backwards compatibility.

That's why the PS2 is immensely more popular than XBOX. When it all comes down, most of the reasons are not even that technical. Users couldn't care what runs inside their console, wheter it's a "massively parallel" grpahics engine or just a regular PC architecture inside their box.

Why is it more popular than PC gaming? Well controllers, easy to use, no compatibility and upgrade nightmares, sitting in front of the TV, etc.

What's really "developer p0rn" is the kind of flame wars that I used to read about who could push more polygons.

The closest thing to Java on PS2 that I've heard about is some guys who have compiled Kaffe on the PS2 Linux kit.

http://playstation2-linux.com/forum/message.php?msg_id=13682

Some PS2 games support USB keyboard and mice. That's why the put the USB ports in there.

As for the "crap" controller, that's one of the reasons I rather play on my console. I like games that depend on a simple controller. You can do more with a mouse and keyboard, but it's a horrible interface for gaming. Not to mention, that there are already products that combine the PS2 gamepad and keyboard. However, I think using the keyboard for anything else than typing is the wrong direction.

Either way, I don't see this as a big impediment to Java gaming on PS2. That is, unless you mean that Java doesn't have a way to read the PS2 (or any console's) gamepad.



I have a really nice Sony WEGA TV, that while it has MUCH more less resolution, I rather use it for watching DVDs and playing games. Also I'm more confortable playing in my sofa, than on my computer desk, which I spend most of the day working.

This is more like a dig against consoles, not a reason for Java to not work on a console.

I'm guessing you don't like consoles?



Now these are valid points. I wonder what you mean by 32Mb of RAM that isn't going to grown any time soon, it's NEVER going to grow more than likely. That's the point of the console.

The question here is does a Java game VM could fit on a console. The answer is yes, since smaller and less capable VMs can run on a phone. The question is, what types of games you could make with it. Probably Tetris and Tic Tac Toe, but not Jax & Dexter.

Have any of you people who HAVE the Playstation 2 connected it to broadband yet?  

If so you should be able to browse the net.  Please msg me and I will set up a Java 3D Applet to see if your Playstation console will be able to render the code at the URL.  (it will be a fun experiment!)


I have the PS2 network adapter, no it does not come with a browser. You'll have better luck talking with somebody that has the Linux kit. However, I doubt Java3D works on PS2 Linux.

Isn't this functionality provided by the Java Plugin HTML converter?

Anyways, one thing to watch out for is that if you compile your DetectPlugin class with the 1.4 javac, it might not run on older 1.1 VM browsers. I encountered this problem before, I think the javac -target option fixes it.

If you're using older style AWT type graphics, then override update to avoid flickering.

If you are using Swing classes, then don't touch update ( I think it's not even called anymore) and override either paint() or paintComponent().

paintComponent() is good to override because then component borders will be painted properly.

Just to make it very clear, at least my position, I never said Jeff & Chris are just twiddling their thumbs all day and doing nothing. I merely suggested that maybe some of these demos , which you admittedly need a lot of work and are outdated, could be handed off to the public here and we could help Sun in this effort, instead of having Jeff spend time on it when we all know he has a lot on his plate.



I'm not even going to get into this. Full Sail can do whatever it wants with it's own software, I'm not an Open Source zealot. BTW, I didn't even say it should be released as open source just suggested that maybe we could help.



I have to say that the "whining" accusation is extremely rude. I merely suggested an idea that I tought was benefitial for everybody here, basically that there are competent people here willing to help for free. Forget the licensing issues for a second, there are people wanting to help for free!!! Is that suggestion so annoying that you have to call it whining? If it is, my God, I want more annoyance in my business. I want people to annoy me wanting to code my stuff for free!!!



I think this grand prix demo was presented as a general Java gaming demo. I believe what you say, but also read up on how it was presented, I see a disconnect here.

http://www.gamespy.com/gdc2002/jgp/

Why present screenshots of the grand prix tech-something and the Jamid stuff if they're not supposed to be demos of what Java Gaming can do. Can you agree that anybody reading such an article goes away with the impression that this is a demo of java gaming

I appreciate you posting the details on this piece of technology, and trying to clarify the issues. But I would be lying if I didn't say I'm very offended at your general accustations of whining, and overall tone like we're a bunch of ungrateful little children that don't even consider that companies must make money and don't give things away (even abandonware).

How about releasing some of this code into the public, and letting people iron out the details?

Seems that enough work went into the tech demo that it can be enhanced and made into an updated and usable tech demo. Jeff you seem to be busy enough doing important stuff like the JSR and the actual gaming API, why not take advantage of some of us and let us do the boring stuff like finishing an installer and ironing out code?

I'm sure the Sun lawyers wouldn't be happy about this, but the Sun higher ups should be glad people are willing to promote their stuff for FREE!

This site just badly needs demos and we have a lot of intelligent people around here willing to volunteer. Seems mutually beneficial to me.

Wow the formatting ^buttons are [size=2]really[/size] cool.



Nice!

<a href="http://flash? wonder what this does ..." target="_blank">http://flash? wonder what this does ...</a>

Thanks for getting rid of the frames. It's looking fantastic.

When do you guys think you're going to have the articles and other non-forum releated stuff back up?

Also, is there a list of "codes" for this forum. Like what should i use for posting code?

I also "missed" the J2ME part when I read about this before, guess I wasn't paying much attention.

J2ME is also mentioned prominetly in the JavaOne slides for this topic;

http://servlet.java.sun.com/javaone/resources/content/sf2002/conf/sessions/pdfs/1243.pdf

(requires registration)




Well hopefully Jeff can explain that, but from what I can undestand, this stuff should work on a J2SE VM, as J2SE is a superset of J2ME.

http://wireless.java.sun.com/midp/articles/api/

You might want to take a quick peek at the JSR;

http://www.jcp.org/jsr/detail/134.jsp

The proposed specification is of a J2ME Profile that covers nine areas of game development:

1. 3D Modeling and Rendering for Games
2. 3D Physics Modeling for Games
3. 3D Character Animation for Games
4. 2D Rendering and Video Buffer Flipping for Games
5. Game Marshalling and Networked Communication
6. Streaming Media for Games
7. Sound for Games
8. Game Controllers
9. Hardware Access for Games

I see that the JSR has been voted and approved (I think), but when will we see more details?

I think after you guys went to that game conference you were going to post more details or maybe even some early idea of an API.

Any new info? What's going on?

I read the SourceForge TOS and it seemed to say the license has to be OSI approved one, but then it has what I think is an exception;

http://sourceforge.net/tos/tos.php

Use, reproduction, modification, and other intellectual property rights to data stored in CVS or as a file release and posted by any user on SourceForge.net ("Source Code") shall be subject to the OSI-approved license applicable to such Source Code, or to such other licensing arrangements that may be approved by SourceForge.net as applicable to such Source Code.

-----------------------

And this from some FAQ;

http://gro.clinux.org/docs/site/faq.php#whohost-com

Can I host commercial software on SourceForge?

Maybe.

If your commercially developed software is Open Source, then yes.

If your commercially developed software is not yet Open Source, but will be later, then probably yes.

If your commercially developed software is not Open Source, but may help to advance other Open Source software, then maybe.

If you just like our tools so much that you want to use them, then go ahead. We've released them as Open Source software. If this prospect overwhelms you, then contact VA Linux Professional Services, they'll be glad to help you. (Shameless plug for our sponsors.)

Sorry to nag about this Chris, we all know what a big effort it is to set this stuff up.

Hey, but like I said, it looks a lot nicer. Can't wait to see what it'll look like with the articles.

After playing with the site a bit more, I still don't like the message board insdie of the browser with a scrollbar. I have to manage 2 scrollbars to view and edit messages!

Also, on Mozilla 1.2a (Windows) when the message board frame changes content, the rectangle bounds of it flash a bit.

The new message board looks very nice and it's a great improvement, but why not let the browser scrollbar do it's thing and make this a bit more standard?