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1  Discussions / General Discussions / Re: Books about AI on: 2004-06-23 18:09:28
THE book to read on AI is "Theory of Games and Economic Behavior". by John von Neumann and Oskar Morgenstern

It is listed as one of the 12 most important scientific monograms (dissertations) along with the art of computer programming, einstien's theory of relativity, and the collected papers of einstein.

There is a few caveats  to this:
1) It is not a basic book. Lots of math.
2) It is not a cheap book ($33.00 new, paperback).
3) It was written in over 60 years ago.
4) Theory of Games it doesn't refer to how to build games. It is how to create economic models using math based "ai games". It does however deal with AI. And the theories/methods intorduced in the book are applicable to any AI project.

Ok, that was my 'ha penny's worth.

2  Discussions / Miscellaneous Topics / Re: What's orange, and sounds like a parrot? on: 2004-06-21 15:30:16
Two men walked into a bar.

The third ducked.

One astronaut came back from the longest space mission ever. he was so weak from zero gravity that he couldn't even walk. When he got home to his wife, she asked "Was it really worth it, all that time in space."
The astronaut replied "Yes, certainly!"
"And what did you get out of it?" asked his wife.
He replied, "For being the person longest in space I got atrophy!"

3  Discussions / General Discussions / Re: Java games can only be indie games on: 2004-06-21 15:00:19
I think that the 90% statistic is incorrect. Somebody "tweaked" the poll/sales figures on that one.

4  Games Center / Archived Projects / Re: Scaled back game.... on: 2004-05-13 12:59:40
I could make millions!
5  Discussions / Miscellaneous Topics / Re: building my own computer on: 2004-05-11 18:42:23

Here is my criteria for buying computers. I have purchased two new ones in the past two years. Before that, it had been over 4 years since any major PC purchases.

Here are the rules I now abide by:
1) DVD doesn't belong on computers...yet. Unless you are burning them, and you know you will be using dvds a lot on your pc, skip it. Eventually, games will sell predominantly on DVD, but that is still a ways off.

2) CDRW for your media drive.

3) Unless you are playing games, or creating computer animation, use the onboard video.

4) Unless you are an audiophile, use the onboard sound. The fact is, if you don't have a $500 speaker set, that 150 dollar sound card is 150 dollars of junk. I use headphones and onboard just fine.

5) Get the best video card you can afford.

6) Get the fastest processor (usually this means AMD) you can afford.

7) Get as much memory as you can afford.

Cool Skip the floppy. Save 20 bucks.

9) One hard drive is enough. 100 gig is enough.

10) Optical mouse is nice.

11) Anything else, install it later. See how you like the system as it is.

That's it. I do have a dvd player in mine, but that was a mistake. I watch dvds on TV with a dedicated dvd player.

Ignore all of the above if you really want cutting edge. But if you want a computer that will play well most games for the next three years, the above will do.

The second PC i bought wasa "wife wants to surf" and I got her a $300 out of the box celeron. She plays super collapse and Risk II on it. I tried installing Call of Duty, and it crashed. Go figure.

But my pc is an amd 1.5, 512 ram, Nvidia 4200 128mb agp and I can cruise the highest detail settings on CoD without a hitch. I bought it 1.5 years ago, and it still runs the fastest settings on the latest games.

Installed netbeans tho, and it turned into a piece 'o junk.....

I need another 512mb memory obviously.

6  Discussions / Miscellaneous Topics / Re: Rant: Why parallel processing will never take on: 2004-05-11 18:17:59
Orangy, you are completely wrong.

My wife does parallel processing each day, because she talks on the phone, yells at me, and changes diapers all at the same time.

You are just looking for it in the wrong place.
7  Games Center / Archived Projects / Re: Scaled back game.... on: 2004-05-10 17:42:06
My brain hurts.

8  Games Center / Archived Projects / Re: Scaled back game.... on: 2004-05-07 15:29:31
Wow. From 3d mmorpg, to jumpjoe, to quantum physics.

I got chills up and down my spine when I realized i started it all.

(BTW, the game got scaled back to a NWN module. Yeah, I suck.)

(But maybe I will actually finish something)

(Nah....I still have to finish the kiddie, fence I mean. I need to finish the fence.)

Hey, also, there is no such thing as "pure space". Even vaccum is merely the absence of atmosphere, not the absence of everything.

And, e=mc^2 means matter is energy, and viceversa. So if at any given point you can see starlight, then energy(light is a form of energy) is passing through that point, and thus that single point in space is filled with matter.

You can read all of this in my book "Dr. J Lectures on Quantum Physics". Really. And if you believe that, send me $50 and i will send you "Jared's Keen Gamemaker", it is a voice activated 3D MMMORPG creator that will run up to 5 million concurrent users in an infinitely expandable game world with movie-like graphics. All you have to do is install it and then tell it what you want it to do for you.

I will ship the software to you as soon as I have 50,000 orders. I promise. No personal checks, just money orders accepted. Please wait 6-8 years for shipping once the order has been received.
9  Games Center / Archived Projects / Re: Scaled back game.... on: 2004-05-05 14:24:21
I was thinking more like "Jump Joe", but Joe wouldn't be able to jump, and there would only be one storey buildings.

Anyone here ever play Jumpjoe on a 386 with turbo turned on?


OSHA will never catch me now!
10  Games Center / Archived Projects / Scaled back game.... on: 2004-04-30 17:34:19
After much deliberation, and a sound dose of "stoopid-b-gon" I have decided to scale back my 3D MMorpg to a 2D rts game with (Thanks for the idea Cas) one whole unit type. And one terrain type. non-networked. My brother is a CGA major at the local Art University. He is going to do some blazingly awesome grass tile squares for the terrain.

It's gonna be the next big thing.

Here is my dev schedule: think about it(3 weeks time allocated), plan it(7 weeks time scheduled), start coding it(2 hours), Scale it back again to a 2d side view non-scrolling game. Like commander keen, but suckier. (3 hours scheduled)

Now my real quandary is when I realize that the side-scroll game is too complex for my awesome programming capabilities, what can I do to scale it back?

11  Game Development / Networking & Multiplayer / Re: UDP Vs TCP/IP on: 2004-04-16 13:45:51
I need to start reading the entire thread before diving in.

My deep (but not deepest) apologies. (The deepest ones are reserved for my wife, whom seems to be offended whenever she wants something.)(She usually gets what she wants.)

I have had no intention of writing my own IP protocol (I ain't no Jon Postel), I was going to use the existing* stuff and wait until it didn't work anymore. Then I was going to give up on game programming and return to playing halo.
12  Discussions / General Discussions / I got safari for free! on: 2004-04-15 18:00:06
Oh yeah!

The U that I take classes ( am an eternal student. I am a junior, have 3 years to my bachelors, and have been attending for 10 years) gives a free subscription to Safari when enrolled.

Now, how cool is that?
13  Game Development / Networking & Multiplayer / Re: UDP Vs TCP/IP on: 2004-04-15 17:16:46
Ok....I am at home working out the usage of my networking class (I am wrapping the sockets soz I can plug them into different components of my game, and soz they run as separate threads).

Here is what I have read so far.

Easiest way to use existing thechnology and get fps cook the grenade accuracy is use UDP.

Easiest way to get reliability is use TCP.

Now.......and please let me know exactly how much I don't know. I bow before the combined wisdom of the gurus within this forum......

what if I want the reliability of TCP and the arcade quality speed of UDP?

Here is my proposed solution, laugh if oyu will......

Game server sends UDP to client with "current gamestate". brute force.
Client sends TCP to server. Reliable never lost packets.

Whaddya think?
14  Game Development / Networking & Multiplayer / Re: UDP vs. TCP......round 2134 on: 2004-04-15 15:57:05
Thanks all, y'all just made my life a heckuva lot easier!

15  Game Development / Networking & Multiplayer / Re: UDP vs. TCP......round 2134 on: 2004-04-15 09:37:05
I don't actually want to re-write networking code. I would use the existing sockets classes to build my communications between game components (I have a 3 tier plan).

So, what you are sayting, is that if I want stuff to be reliably delivered in order, I want to use TCP, and it won't be significantly slower than UDP?


16  Game Development / Networking & Multiplayer / UDP vs. TCP......round 2134 on: 2004-04-14 20:44:56

If I want fast AND reliable, do I use UDP and write my own error/datagram tracking into my app?
17  Discussions / General Discussions / Re: Sim Server Press is great... ┬ábut wrong. on: 2004-04-01 10:33:43

I'm not fan of database backend (I prefer to keep 4GB of data in mem) it will be possible ? need more than 4GB of storage for an online persistent world. Way more.

18  Discussions / General Discussions / Re: Microsoft XNA on: 2004-03-31 17:37:49

This is incredibly difficult to do. No, really..

Mmmm...I have to disagree with this statement.

Would you like to see my design layout for this? It would take me a few days to put it together, as it is still mostly on notepaper currently. But I would be happy to share my grandoise and megalomaniacal ideas....

19  Discussions / General Discussions / Re: Microsoft XNA on: 2004-03-31 15:12:10
Seems to me the most unsurmountable problem isn't technical at all, but rather the ability to provide dynamic, engaging content.

But merging the dynamic and engaging content is what makes MMO games so difficult. This is not a technical issue.

And I think that is not the real problem.

A better way to state the problem is this: Keeping players interested in the plot that you are feeding them.

But that isn't an exact definition of the problem either. It is getting closer to the real problem though.

The real problem, and it has parallels in the real world, is a control issue.

There is not a single game out there, to my knowledge, that disassociates player freedom with game rules.

Let me step back to paper and pen RPGs for a moment.
I loved playing starwars. Even a beginning character could hose a stormtrooper, no problem. The reason? Player characters are SPECIAL.

Now, your real issue is making each and every one of your 50,000 online players feel unique and special.

There are several routes to this, Most of them don't work for very long.

1) Have plot missions that characters can fill. The effectiveness of this is limited in a chat environment, where players will ask "How do you complete missions x?" Everyone does the same cookie cutter mission. Such fun.  Kinda like a puzzle filled FPS...with lag!

2) Put lots of detail and things in your game. Hundreds of skills, skill levels, points, attributes, objects, manufacturing thingies, etc. make them pluggable so that you can just keep adding more and more and more and more. "My Super Wanda Sword beats your Vorpal Sword iX!" "No, I no longer use the IX, I have a Super Wanda 2!" My virtual sword is bigger than yours! This gets tiring, but not as quickly as reason 1 stated above.

3) Obfuscate the plot. Obfuscate the high end gadgets that the players can get. This is supposed to work towards adding a level of suspense. Yeah, right. THis is dreadfully annoying for anyone that isn't a noob player.

4) Add real, INDIVIDUAL, dynamic content.
This is not truly a technical issue. THis is a "we don't give a @#$% about the players" issue. This is a "My game, my plot, MY CREATION" issue. To my knowledge, even though it is possible, no one has built a persistent online world that each player has the capability to rise to power, overthrow the head honcho NPC characters, and get knifed in the back by his/her buddy who wants to run things now.

If you build a system where the players drive the plot, instead of act like ancilliary extras on a large movie set, you will have a game that blows the competition away.

This is not a technically challenging thing. Yet no one does this. The only people that can truly provide your game with 100% dynamic content is your players. Set up the game play, initialize a basic plot, and let the players take control of your world. The basic plot dies, but is replaced with your players struggling to create their own world-spanning empire. When one faction gets too powerful, send in your alien/goblin invasion, bash everyone mercilessly, reward the best ten players with a new desktop computer system, and take control of their characters, turn them int oNPCs for the next wave of players to overcome, etc.

Yeah...I'm a genius.

20  Discussions / General Discussions / Re: Microsoft XNA on: 2004-03-31 09:18:07
a few problems such as duping, failover, and efficient processing power usage are the be-all and end-all of what makes MMOG development hard. I certainly don't swear by Gordon's 10 reasons (GDC03), but they're quite good as a starting point. How many of them does your solution solve?

I have a question about this. What is the problem with duping? Seems a relatively easy way to get around this is to use objects ( this is Java, right?) and build in a serial number to every object. When you pick something up, it checks the serial. When you log on to a system, it does a serial check against all your items. It doesn't have to be a really big number or character string. And you use that to build your comparable interface at the same time.

I can see where this might cause the system to slow down, what with doing serial checks every time a player picks up an object. But you will have to do something along these lines anyways. As far as system resources go, start a comparable thread, let it run. If a player tries to dupe something, he/she might get away with it until the thread returns. Then add more processors.

Ok, now shoot me for talking about something I understand only superficially.
21  Discussions / General Discussions / Re: Game market crashes after 2005? on: 2004-03-25 19:49:28

"All" huh? Well not me or any of my friends. No one.

I apologize if I was being unclear. My fault.

I meant to say that I have seen the gaming market, at a glance, inthe asia/pacific area, and there are plenty of non-western teenage males that will buy the english version of whatever is hot this month and play it until they find the next game.

Basically, I was trying to say that a broad "Cultural barriers will prevent games from spreading to new markets" is a load of bunk. Cultural barriers will affect the spread of games to new markets some. But they will not prevent the spread....

Also, please let me retract the H2 comment.  I was being a bit zealous. What I should have said was
that halflife 2 (not an id product) has a very impressive demo and there will be lots of FPS fans out there buying it up, throughout 2005.

Ok. Detractions and clarifications stated.

Apologies for the sore toes.
22  Discussions / General Discussions / Re: profession or hobby? on: 2004-03-25 19:22:45

Besides; it seems we are fast reaching the point were games will use licensed engines so even the end-user gamedev house's engine programmers will merely be code maintainers as well.

Good point!
23  Discussions / General Discussions / Re: Microsoft XNA on: 2004-03-25 15:57:51
Good for them I say!

Now We have a cross platform product that hits Windows, windows hand held, and windows console.


Q: Uh, yeah, aren't all those windows platforms?

A: Of course!

Q: But, uh, where does the cross-platform functionality come in?

A: Ah, yes, our cross platform hist windows CE, Windows Xbox, and Windows Windows!

Q: Uh.....what about MAC?

A: What?

Q: Apple, Macintosh, you know, the IPOD, the IMAC, the G4, etc...?

A: What?

Q: What about Linux?

A: What?

Personally, I think windows is a great thing. So crucify me. I play most of my games on windows. I develop on windows. Windows, windows windows. runs on windows.

Hey, what about the last cross platform programming tool MS announced? Wasn't that C#? Why didn't they use that? Could it be because it isn't truly cross platform? Bingo! Is this new tech any more cross platform? Nope!

Geez folks, you are getting paranoid.

Java is so massively pervasive in the broader-than-gaming business market that it will always be here.
The big gaming companies will eventually move to Java because it is easy to use, and programmers are more expensive than hardware. Cut your staff in half, use ten percent more machine, and it means you have c/c++/assembly speed, at 3/4 the price. In addition, you are truly cross-platform, with linux, mac, etc. Tap 3-4 markets with one product.

The calls to "defend our java dreams" get repetitive here. They aren't necessary. Java is not small.

Java is HUGE. it is pervasive. It is adaptable. It has the best !@#$ API doco on the web.  It has several free IDE's available.

It is the ONLY true programming language that is non-scripting( like php, perl) that is a www language.

it is the ONLY true cross platfrom language, bar none. Even PERL has system specifics that you need to be careful about when programming diff platforms.

Why are you worried?

24  Discussions / General Discussions / Re: Game market crashes after 2005? on: 2004-03-25 15:21:30

Culture and ofcorse language might be an unavoidable obstacle and most likely it's out of range for your marketing anyways.

Not true,

I have hung out in all japanes and all-chinese game shops overseas, and they were ALL playing WCIII. In english. ALL of them. Every last one. This month it will be something different.

Teenage boys around the world, in all cultures want the same thing: Action/adventure/strategy games.

Also, every year, for the number of people that leave the game market, more people join it.

In addition, the article seemed to focus on console games. Whoopty-doo. He forgot a significant portion of the market: desktop workstations.

Blockbuster games will continue to be developed and will continue to make big bucks. Console or desktop.

If you are looking for new innovation, it is already there. Look for better AI, more realistic behavior, etc. The faster an average machine gets the more "real" the experience. Anyone on this forum NOT going to buy H2 when it comes out? Then you aren't a gamer. Just a wannabe with a poor attitude.

And graphics hitting a plateau? Bull$#!t

Have you seen the recent starwars and LOTR movies? When your average desktop machine can crank the battle scene quality CG images realtime that you saw in the movies then you can try to tell me you hit a graphics plateau. And no, no game has movie image quality yet...even half life 2 is SIGNIFICANTLY less real looking than the current CG in the movies industry.

And no, the speed of the processors speed increase  will never slow down. Twenty years from now someone will come out with a gigabyte sized bus, a terabyte of video memory, and all your game shops will be developing for it. New materials are discovered regularly, and the only reason that no one has built a gig sized bus is because we don't have the programming capability...not because it is technologically impossible to physically make a gig sized bus.

Oh, by the way, "new innovation will cease, and we will have to shut down the US patent office in the late 1800's"

Don't recognize the reference? Go get an education.

What the guy who wrote the article doesn't realize is that he is growing up. When one person gets tired of a hobby, it doesn't mean that the hobby is lost. It means that that one person is lost to the hobby.

He needs to g oout and take up paintball, or build a sailboat, or perhaps get a degree, a job, and contribute to society.

He was funny though. I will give him that.
25  Discussions / General Discussions / Re: profession or hobby? on: 2004-03-25 14:48:49
There may be a couple of thoughts I could add to this:

The vast majority (I have seen stats ranging from 80-90%) of programmers out there get paid to maintain code.

The other 20% that write new code usually do it in-house.(Like banks writing a new jdbc app so cutomers can access their data online)  Only a fraction of those that write new code are writing it for a product that will be marketed.

Now enter the game larket, where for every 5 million dollar production that is successful, there are several (if not more) 5 million dollar productions that bomb. Investors lose their money. Programmer gets laid off.

But who really loses? Not the programmer. Until that programmer got laid off, he/she got paid every other week. If paychecks were sporadic, the programmer had better jump ship.

So who puts up the money for the blockbuster game?
The investor.
Who is placing more on the line for the game?
The investor.
Who gets the big bucks if it pays off?
The investor.
Who is going to pay less and demand more in order to mitigate the risks?
The investor.

Unless the investor (be it a company owner, stock holder, or venture capitalist) can gurantee a 100% chance of making their investment back, the employees, including programmers, are going to get the short end of the stick.

The pay and conditions of the game market will never equal the stability and average pay range of those that work in the "established" markets because you can never gurantee your backers that your game will make them money.

26  Discussions / Miscellaneous Topics / Three new IDE's on: 2004-03-17 16:50:06
I am considering writing three different IDEs, one for each of the following:

A graphics programming IDE for JOGL.
A networking IDE for client/server games.
A JDBC IDE, to synch up with MySql specifically.

I would release them in March '05.

Yes, it would be the March of IDES!

Damn.....I am so hilarious.

Please post threats and promises of bodily harm below.
27  Game Development / Game Play & Game Design / Re: I am doing an online java RPG on: 2004-03-15 08:14:46
Here is a thought Phibred,

It is something I thought about doing with NWN when I was tinkering with making a module.

Take this with a grain of advice, because this very idea is what kept me from finishing the module.

Just like all (most) other mmorpg games, you need to set up factions.

Make each faction useable/joinable. No pure npc factions, with one exception (explained below). No player guilds. (Ok, radical idea, read on...if you must have player run guilds, they must be affiliated with a faction that is game-set)

Players are forced to join a faction .That faction becomes their guild.

Give each faction a number of attributes. Things like economic, military, political power. Give the factions a cashflow, production, etc.

Make it so that every single mission that your players take on affects 1 or more factions. Make sure that the player can see that the faction has increased/decreased in power for every action taken.

As the player builds reputation/standing/whatever with the faction (and against otherfactions) then several thuings have to happen:
1) The player gets promotions/demotions
2) The player gets targeted for agression by opposing factions. Not just pvp or fighting aggression, but economic and political as well. (No, you can't dock here, no you can't sell there, your pet politician was just assasinated, etc.
3) The gameplay of all players combined affect the ultimate outcome of each faction. Publish a goal within each faction, "Destroy faction X" or "Take over the squirbie market" or "Own 51% of all politicians in the game".

You have to have npc politicians, and political positions (or something equivalent) and each politician leans a % towards each faction.  They also have a %  standing with each player. So players can request favors, missions, etc from politicians.

As a player gains rank, make that player capable of making faction decisions. In other words, let them hold official positions within the faction. Like treasurer. Yes, give a player the capacity to STEAL from his own faction. It happens in real life, why not a game? Let another player be the political officer, the media officer, etc.

But they have to EARN those positions. And other newer players will in some instances be accountable to older more experienced players.

Basically, what i am proposing, is that you create the ability for players to modify the storyline. If a player wants to kill the npc president of xyz faction, make the npc  available to kill. SO what?

Every time a faction dies, create a new one to fill the void. It will be less powerful, more vulnerable, etc. But that is how it works.

Now, you also have to have one or more pure npc factions, that form the basis of your "invaders". The badguys. Be they aliens, pirates, mongols, or an army of walking piraahnas, they are EVIL, and they attack on sight. This is the group that you pass rumors around via the in-game news media. FOr players that are positioned in the right factrions and are inthe right positions, you email them tidbits of info, some true, some not quite true, some inbetween. The EVIL faction lurks on the edges of the game, available for those that want to eek them out and get hosed. The EVIL faction will attack as soon as a pre-set condition is met, such as faction X is destroyed, or time y has passed, etc.

You are, from what I can tell, trying to build an RPG where all playters are equal. Try that, and you have a flat playing field. How many people would play a multiplayer fps that only had flat playing areas? people get bored with that.  All players are not equal.

make it dynamic.

And if a faction or player does something that derails your storyline, change your storyline.

Soryline: XabuXabu trhe leader of the earth republic was assasinated!!  Breaking news, it was a clone that was assasinated, xabu is fine and well and seeking vengeance against the assailant. In the background, suddenly the player is listed as a target for agression from 95% of all other players, factions, etc.

See what I mean? Let the players screw up your story. This isn't your story, its theirs. At least, that is the way THEY see it.

28  Discussions / General Discussions / Re: Performance Tweaking with Dynamic thread prior on: 2004-03-12 17:55:21
Yeah, kinda like load balancing.

I probably should move this discussion to the other forum listing.

Anyways, the reason I asked was I wanted to know, is it really necessary? If not, heck, I will flag it.

29  Discussions / General Discussions / Performance Tweaking with Dynamic thread priority on: 2004-03-12 16:52:39

I am (hopefully) going to get into the habit of tossing ideas out here on the forum and seeing what kind of response they generate.

The reason is that I am interested in Java Game development, and am inexperienced.  I was going to back end the game I am modeling with java, and CORBA a connection to a C++ game client. But Java seems to have some 3d functionality now. if I get to the point where my skills surpass what java 3d apis can do for me, then I will turn back to C++.

Until then, threads:

What pros/cons are there to dynamically changing (via a command console, or an AI method) thread priorities during MMO server operations? I can think of several ways to do this, but is it worth it?

Currently I am working on developing the back end to a MMO game. It will start out a a generic engine allowing objects (be they players, NPCs, structures, or other game objects) to interact and move in a 3D environment. The environment will not be rendered at server side (of course), but the locations of all interactive objects will be. A thread will run each volume (location) and that thread will communicate with the game controller (main) via a container object.

(Interjection: !@#$ windows....cant use my vi nav keys..)

Here are my (ignorant ways) thoughts on how to do this:
1) A config file, read in before the threads start, setting the thread start priorities for the game.
2) A config file for each group of threads, that I can change, and every 1000 cycles or so (10,000, 100,000, etc) they check the file, and set their own priority according to what is in there.
3) I send requests via the abovementioned container object to the thread to lift or lower priorities.
4) I combine #2 and #3 above, by uing a file, and then sending a generic "check the priority file" message to the threads that I want prioritized.
5) I set threshold limits to what is in the container objects, and if one gets backed up too much, the program automatically adjusts the priorities. I think this is the most dangerous method of all, but verry slick sounding.

SO, what d oyou think?

If all of this is stuff that  I shouldn't worry about, tell me. Be abusive if you want.

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