whos the person that creates new forums anyways?

if the person had checked this post than they probably would of created it by now.

anyone know who to contact?

whats the point about talking bout it, if its not gonna happen?

enough already.

it would be a good game to port to the cellphone platform, probably better on the cell phone than in a browser window. Cellphone programmers probably wouldn't make as much fun of it either

i think you need to the read the posts before mine to understand what i was talking about. It was an example of an extreme that isn't done because its impractical.



This is not true, many commercial developers optimize their code in assembly to make it run faster. When I said that a would be faster if written entrirely in assembly I meant that if the entire program was optimized as much as possible, which is silly because it could take forever.

your the first to say that it isn't fun

i'm starting to feel that my game is being mocked

art doesn't need to be shared, some of the games (i don't paint) i've made i've never shown them to anyone. But when art is shared those who experience IMHO can only benefit from it. Some art is only for certain people just as certain games arn't for me, but in experiencing them i can only become a better developer both by its pros and cons even i don't make those types of games. It isn't from the artists point of view but from a societal point of view that it should be shared

i didn't mean that they should restrict themself to become popular. The art shouldn't change unless the artist feels it should. I meant that it should be shared so that everyone can experience whether that experience was made for them or not or whether its good or not

if you wanna make a 20x30 gif look like angela basset be my guest, i be very impressed if she was reconizable
i don't think i add her to my game though, i could give u the code if u really wanna try, its very simple to understand

I'm not saying art has to reach as many people as possible and i'm not saying that art is better if it reachs more people. I'm saying that it should be the goal of the artist (from a societal point of view) to share their art with as many people as possible

i was saying that their arn't many forums talking writing big games in assembly because nobody makes them (that i know of) People read/write to forums mainly to learn. Why would u learn about something your never going to use, its just not very practical.

sorry if i can't make it any clearer

that is a good idea

they could also make games nowadays that run twice as fast or are twice as smart, or pretty, etc. all they would have to do is write it all in assembly which would be too much effort, so they don't do it and who would want too.

Are there any forums on writing commercial-like games entirely in assembly, its a guess but I’d have to go with no. Why would people discuss something in order to learn and not actually use it, I know I wouldn't.

I think writing a game in an applet is very important because it brings in an entirely new audience. I like to program for myself because it brings me pleasure, but i also like to share what I’ve done and learned with others. If a painter painted a picture that nobody could see, its probably not as good as one that everyone could experience

I don't think I’m underestimating the benefits to what u said, but IMHO too many people underestimate the benefits of writing for applets as well as applications

maybe this is too philosophical for a web forum but I believe that making games is an art form more than a science and that its important to reach as large an audience as possible. Whether the art is good or bad, I personally believe I would benefit from experiencing it

speed does make a difference, for example i like to play UT and i find it tons of fun, but if it ran under 10fps (which it has on my laptop) i don't find it very fun.

i didn't say that if a game was hard it was more fun. It was my opion that my game became more fun when it was harder because i think that everyone can agree with that a game thats incredibly easy just isn't very fun (or have good replay).

in terms of the art, i created when i was satisfied with the gameplay and i thought the art would make the game more immersive by adding a theme.

When designing a game you have to be aware that you can't please everyone. Not everyone likes certain types of games. I think deer hunter is a horrible boring game, but i know plenty of people who like it.  I haven't had any complaints until now about the gifs.

i guess the discussion get led in the wrong direction. its almost inevitable that when you talk about gameplay and making good games that technology is going to become associated with it. thats kinda what i wanted to avoid

sounds the same
2 teams of 4
10 hours to build

when i gave an example of why i thought the game was good it was my opinion on what i thought one of its strengths were. Its hardly praise because its only like that because of fluke, i never inteded it too end up that way.

the reason i didn't package it as an app (besides laziness) is because i wanted everyone to be able to play it and i wanted it to be a quick game to play like on other websites. I intended to be one of those games that you play when you have a spare  5 minutes or something.

In retrospect i should of done it as both but i guess i had to go watch junkyard wars on tv or something

actually it does depend on the launguage used. I'm not going to make an applet (platform independant) an unreal2 game because java applets just can't do those graphics and that game is designed around those graphics

developing games in java doesn't just mean applications it means making games as applets aswell, too bad LWJGL doesn't work with applets.

It was a bad example for me to use, you can tell me anything done in c++ can be done in java, true, but not always in an applet and definetly not always platform independant

hardware pixel shaders are only supported on d3d from what i know, and i'm pretty sure ms didn't make a version of d3d for java

my game was not hindered by using the graphics, theres hardly any difference between rectangles and gifs. In terms of speed it makes little difference either as from what I've seen it would only run slow on a 486 or such.

The graphics do make the game better, but its not important because it doesn't change the gameplay or accessibility of the game. My previous arguments were that gameplay is hindered by graphics, the game here is so simple that it doesn't affect it at all.

I apologize for the problem of the pop-up windows I've never had this problem, but then again I hardly ever use java2. I guess another reason why I don't like java2 very much. If i had known that the popup makes the game less accessable then i would not of included it. I thought that I could make the game more immersive (by bringing it out the browser) at no cost, I was wrong.

you probably didn't like it all that much because you only played the first 12 levels, try it on hard mode (puts you up to level 12 or something), it doesn't become any different, but IMHO the increased challenge (gets damn near impossible around level 20 or so) makes it a lot more fun.

The game is good because it focuses on quick thinking (at the higher levels). I said quick thinking not quick reacting because you can't just react, the enimies move at different speeds. Most of the time you die not because you can't move fast enough but because you can't think fast enough.

apologizes for the pop-up problem

I agree those sites are very good places to discuss such topics, but how a game is designed depends on the platform that it is being designed for. How a java game is designed is much different than how a c++ game is designed because of both its strengths and weaknesses.

This site would not be a good place to discuss how to make high-end commercial c++ games in java as you can't really make most of those games in java. Other sites discuss things not exactly like this but similar. If we had our own forum we could avoid these things that do not apply to java. Why would we need to talk about how hardware pixel shaders affect the immerissiveness of a game on a platform that doesn't support it?

thanks

I do like games that look good, but sometimes I wish we went back to the good old days of the c64. I too would much rather play a good game with good graphics than a good game with bad graphics (most of the time, some games are just good cause they have no or little graphics.)

Your right when you say bad games with good graphics are considered bad. But games that are decent and have great graphics have been given too much praise. Just look at myst, if you consider it at least a somewhat decent game. but then again i guess it only deserves praise because it was made in the right place at the right time. It was also made on HyperCard for the mac which is quite interesting if you know the launguage. What I'm trying to say is it wasn't that good of a game, but more people own it than any other game (I think thats still true) because it looks good and plays okay.

Maybe i'm blaming technology too much, maybe it deserves as much, but as technology has improved a lot gameplay has barely improved at all in comparision.

Its difficult to compare the two because they're intirely different but still come together as a whole in a game. I'm going to have to think about this one more.

Any thoughts anyone?

I'm pretty new to java-gaming.org, but over the past couple of days I started a couple of topics that went into great detail about the relationship between gameplay and technology.

IMO the forums are primarily focused on technology and there’s little room for other things. I think a forum called gameplay (or something similar) should be created. This should be a place were we can discuss design strategies and other things that can make a game a good game other than technology and programming. Games aren’t just about programming (and I'm a programmer) but about ideas and beliefs. It sounds a bit melodramatic, but I think we should be able to discuss our personal philosophies about how games should be created.

Thanks, Derek

That's not true at all. I don't get paid to make games and I'm sure theres thousands of others like me. They do it because they like to do it not because they're paid. Even developers that get paid, make free games on the side because they love to do it.

I haven't played Bridge Commander, but you're right about wing commander the technology was very good for the time and gave a certain feel to the game.

But could it be done without sythisized voices and 3d graphics? Defenitely not the same. But could it be just as fun to play aswell as immersive?

A good game should be very immersive, but technology does affect it if you have a good story and good gameplay. I think we can all agree on this, I don't how many years of my life have been sucked up by those old textbased games on the c64.

Now how about fun, theres this one game I played all the time back in the day on my c64 that I don't think anything has compared to it in terms of how fun it was, Lazy Jones. You go around from room to room and play mini-games just trying to finish them all with the highest score. It was definetely not fancy and none of the games were very special, but it was incredibly fun because of how the game was designed.

Wing Commander was fun and it wouldn't be as fun without the technology it had, but thats because it was designed around that technology. If it wasn't designed for the technology, but was just as good as an idea and design (albeit a different one) it could of been just as fun and immersive.

Games arn't created by just the industry, they're developed by the community which includes non-paid developers aswell as the industry. Money doesn't drive the community, people do. But, unfortuneately for everyone, money drives a lot of these people.

Castle Siege

http://www.geocities.com/javaisfun/games/anglais/index.html

Just the other day I started a topic in the Java 3D section about software renderers. It turned into a discussion about gameplay being overlooked by graphics and developers views of what requires the most attention in a game.

This game is a good example of games today have become so complex that some of the gameplay is lost and the games just arn't as fun as they could be. This game is simple but is probably more fun than some games you would shell out $20 or more for.

The game above is Castle Siege, I wanted to see what I could create in short period of time, it was done in less than eight hours. It doesn't have complex graphics or any sound at all. The gameplay is very simple yet addictive.

i didn't realize till now that i can load files with an applet via URLs. I don't know why i never noticed it before. i added keybindings,resolution settings and i'm gonna add simple scripting for maps, models and game objects

i also added some new levels with team fights (15 vs 15) that actually play out quite nicely

unfortunately geocities is being a pain in the arse and i can't upload them right now.

i got 20-45 fps on AMD1800 256 and g4ti4200

thats one of the nicest software rendered pieces of java i've ever seen (that runs over 5fps)

they even made the sinks reflective!

i haven't decided how my io system is going to be setup because i'm too early in the design and development to commit to files (even my models and levels are hard-coded)

even if i did set a keyboard config file i'd have to make an io system which would only be temporary and end up being replaced by a completely different system

i played alien flux and its a very good gaming, but i want the relationship between keyboard aiming and mouse aiming to be more intertwined, essentially i want the player to always be using two different weapons aimed differently but intuitively.

ex Blaster fires in ship direction aimed with keyboard but a laser can fire in any direction

maybe its too complex, i dunno

i am planning to use the mouse in the game, it will be used for aiming special weapons or for lasers

if i can integrate i want to add some rts elements to it by allowing the player to click on friendly units and command them with the mouse. It will be tricky to do and i don't know if it has been done before but it will defineatly interesting to try

wasd controls are pretty common and they're becoming more common in fps games. its not that big of a problem because it well get done when i get to it, i don't have a gui yet and applets don't like to load editable files so how am i suppose to have modifiable keys?

you sound pretty offended by my keyboard layout

i use the awt for all my draws in this game anyways

that might be the cause for jvm slow speed or perhaps the threads i choose to use, either way jvm is messed with this game msvm is the only way to go