I have met the same problems under Linux RedHat 9.0
Ant 1.6+ fails and Ant 1.5.3 is required.
ntlr 2.7.3+ fails and Antlr2.7.2 is required.

After that compilation fails again after having generated sucessfuly the jogl.jar, but before generating the libjogl.so with the following errors (translated from french) :
c.compile.jogl:
[apply] src/native/jogl/BufferUtils.c: In function « Java_net_java_games_jogl_util_BufferUtils_bufferOffset0 »:
[apply] src/native/jogl/BufferUtils.c:53: invalid argument type for « -> »

So now would that be the gcc version that's not good ?
I'm using the regular gcc 3.2.2 distributed with RedHat 9.

If anyone has a clue of what's going on...

GluLookAt() produces a camera twist at the topmost position of the camera, thus some people prefer to postmultiply the modelview matrix with their own matrix which can avoid the problem, but this is not an easy exercise : it requires a good linear algebra knowledge.

The CVS version of OpenMind is based on JoGL.

We haven't put it online as a binary download yet because we can't advance on it for the time being and are not satisfied with the current stability (there is a flaw in the camera class), but still development continues advancing thanks to open source conrtibutions especially from Jan Eickmann and Juri Ganitkevitch (thanks guys !)

So if you can figure how to use a CVS tool you can download the JOGL version of OpenMind.
Openmind official website :
http://www.mind2machine.com
Sourceforge developer website with CVS :
http://sourceforge.net/projects/open-mind

JoGL on MacOSX 10.2 : COOL !!!  

JoGL now implements shared display lists between GLContexts so you don't need to create 2 lists for the same object if you run 2 GLContexts.
This is a recent feature and you need to get the latest official binary release (september 5) for it.
However, I think you'll still have to set perspective and lighting independantly for each GLContext.

Is it any serious ?
Your link reports your session is expired and ADC requires an apple Developer ID to login, so it won't be useful to people on the forums.
While I've been registered for monthes to the ADC, I never saw any link to a MacOSX 10.3 developer preview CD.
So, if you're any serious, where in the ADC website does your link point ? Darwin codebase ?

Greg,

You forgot to put a link to the MacOSX 10.3 developer previex CD ISO that should come with JoGL  

The JoGL canvas is final : you can't extend it. But since the source is open, you can copy the source of the GLCanvas class and put it into your application's package, then modify the methods you need for use with netbeans, and use this class from your application. The class will still be compatible with JoGL. The only problem is that you have to stay in sync with the changes the JoGL developement team makes to their the JoGL GLCanvas class so your implementation doesn't get outdated.

I have done this succesfully with OmCanvas for OpenMind which used to extend GLAnimCanvas from gl4java.

Good luck

Alban

3D Graphics under GNU/Linux besieged by MS patents
http://swpat.ffii.org/patents/effects/opengl/index.en.html

Open source developers wary of MS graphics patent grab
http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/35/26156.html

The homepage is temporarily closed in protest against EU software patents plans.  As a sofware developer, we beleive software patents  will reduce innovation and will advantage international companies whom have the legal capacity and the financial ability to spend the tenth thousands of dollars required to fill one or many software patents in order to slow down or lock the innovation of their competitors.

 A software is a medium to automate ideas, scientific computation, or  day to day work. We beleive ideas, math and science shouldn't be  patentable because they are the essence of the mankind, they are the medium our specie has used to evolve and make the difference between us and the animals. We all get inspiration from our readings and sights in  order to create a new poetry, a new song, a new imaginary universe. Mathematicians have always been sharing math tools, and worked together on improving theories, models, and equations. What if one attempted to patent the addition, the equation ?

 This is what is happenning today with softwares. 30 000 patents are waiting to be validated  in the EU, for purposes such innovative as patenting the firewall, the 1-click buy,  the data compression or voice control which are automated tasks and pieces obviously part of  the worldwide software evolution. There is no need to be a genius to figure it would be nice  to be able to control your computer by voice and develop such a software for it. It only requires patience and work. Why would the first one to have done that process deserve a tax over the rest of the  human kind ? Why wouldn't people be allowed to code the same process for their own needs as long as  they don't copy the original code ?  

 We beleive the current author copyright is a fair and sufficient protection against evil  competition and we do not need software patents. Software patents will increase the cost  of software code by requiring the payment of royalties to people or companies which,  without working anymore, will lazily and quietly wait for the money to enter on their bank account.

 On the other hand, innovative developers coding new softwares will have to check, for every  line they code, if anyone has ever patented the "push that button" or "transmit that data"  feature.

Software patent is another attempt to reduce our rights and increase the economical gap between rich and poor individuals, companies and countries.

For more informations about the protest :
http://swpat.ffii.org/news/03/demo0819/index.en.html

European patents horror gallery :
http://swpat.ffii.org/patents/effects/index.en.html

Mind2Machine follows the protest :
http://www.mind2machine.com

Hi Joo,

I haven't had time to test Xith3D so far, so I can't talk about it, but I can very well talk about OpenMind since I develop it

OpenMind is developed with performance in mind and is focussed towards games. So far, it is much more faster than Java3D, but inferior in terms of features : for example, it doesn't *yet* feature morphing or animation interpolators. But it supports octrees for managing efficient culling of terrains or large FPS levels, and has a good 2D scenegraph which should allow you to build any kind of 2D graphical interface, mixing 2D images and 3D objects, with picking and transformation of every object.

I am currently rewritting the camera class which used to be flawed with Quaternions  to provide an efficient and clean orbit/pan camera movement. It should be easily possible to modify it later to create SLERP interpolated camera movements like in Tomb Raider (assuming one have some good understanding of quaternions).

I plan to make a new release featuring JOGL support and a lot of bug fixes these days, but as I just had a baby last week, I've been late on my schedule (my apologize to all OpenMind users expecting for it).

While OpenMind has a good Javadoc, it lacks tutorials for sure. But there are a lot of samples heavily commented that you can rely on for learning. Last but not least, OpenMind requires a good knowledge of matrix math if you want to take the most out of it, but can be used without also.

Like any free software project, OpenMind can not bring any warranties about constant active development or support. But I am commited to continue working on it on the long term, wether     there are active open source developers giving a hand or not.  

Regards,

Alban

OpenGL does also exist on Playstation2 (see http://www.dataplus.co.jp/OpenGL4ps2.html) and Sony has expressed interest on Java.

I remember a press release issued 2 years ago about Sony and Sun working together on Java for Playstation 2, but mainly for bringing web browser and other internet appliances abilities. (See http://java.sun.com/features/2001/06/sony.html)

Obviously, they've droped their good intentions so far. Sony is also a member of the JSR-134 which was due to be the base specification for the JOxL set of APIs.

I guess for Sony Java is being explored on a long term strategy, but there are no real plans for the moment...c++ remains the standard for consoles for the current generation.

That's the error I have too !  

Unfortunately, it is not as simple as that !  
JOGL just doesn't compile on my MacOSX 10.2. It requires some librairies I don't have and I beleive are present only on 10.3, unless I'm missing some point.

Anyone compiled it successfully on 10.2 ?
Anyone had it run successfully on 10.2 ?

The priority could be set on Panther development (one complete development is better than 2 buggy and partial developments), but I really do beleive at some point MacOSX 10.2 compatibility should be implemented.

The end users don't upgrade their systems at the rate developers do, and especially Mac users : many mac users I know still use system 9 and most of them just don't even know how to install an operating system, they'll take whatever OS comes with the next Mac they'll buy.

If we intend to design video games for Java and for the Apple computers, I think it is mandatory to ensure the largest user base as possible. Video games is a mass market !

I'm aware JoGL is at the step of implementing features rather then ensuring compatibility, but it is very important to keep in mind compatibility should not be forgotten.

Anyway, OpenMind does already uses pBuffers on Win32 and badly needs them on MacOSX. But moving from Gl4Java to JoGL, OpenMind lost MacOS compatibility for the moment. I can't even test it on my Mac (Jaguar). Could there be an opportunity to get a Panther developer preview ?

Alban

and you can figure if a specific OpenGL function is available using :
isFunctionAvailable(String glFunctionName)
Not to confuse with :
isExtensionAvailable(String glExtensionName)  !

Regards,

Alban

You shouldn't confuse the extension name with the name of the OpenGL commands the extension gives you access to.
If you look at http://oss.sgi.com/projects/ogl-sample/registry/ again, you'll notice that GL_ARB_multitexture is an extension, but GL_activetexture doesn't exist as an extension (it is the command name gl.activeTexture() that you intended to convert as an extension !)

In fact, when GL_ARB_multitexture extension is marked as available, it gives you access to all the OpenGL commands associated with it, gl.activeTexture()  being one of these.

Class demos.util.SystemTime in the JoGL demos package performs smoothing internally to avoid effects of poor granularity of currentTimeMillis on Windows platform in particular.

You may be interested to give it a try...

I can very well understand there could be a software incompatibility between JOGL and the JRE implementation on MacOSX 10.2, but I have a hard time understanding why compatibility could only be only available with MacOSX 10.3 (that noone has had access to today, except the folks at JavaOne...)

Couldn't apple upgrade the JRE of MacOSX 10.2 using smartUpdate like they did while moving from Java 1.3 to Java 1.4.1 ?

If Apple wants to push Java gaming, they should offer a market wider than the sole geeks that have paid the bucks required to upgrade to MacOSX 10.3 : having games published is all about getting your investment recovered, and you need a wider market than 10% of the MacOSX users being using 10.3, MacOSX users being, say, 40% of the users of a mac, which is 5% of the total PC users. So if you want to publish a game using JoGL under  MacOSX 10.3, you will reach a MAXIMUM potential market of 0.1*0.4*0.05= 0.2% of the PC Market, wow ! What a good start for convincing game producers and potential investors to finance a Java retail game for Mac ! This a real warranty to recover your investment !

Could Gerard Ziemsky say a word to Apple about this issue ? Could JoGL possibly be made compatible with MacOSX 10.2 with a patch from Apple ? I'm pretty sure this is doable...after all Pather is just the same codebase as Jaguar with a few new features, mostly related to desktop ergonomy...

The acceleon 3D chip for PDAs has been announced at Siggraph : http://www.acceleon.com

Features (copy/paste from their web site)

- Best software- and hardware solutions for full graphics visualization
- Customer support for software- and hardware integration
- Tested and certified software and hardware integration
- Hardware accelerated graphics rendering
- 2D- and 3D-graphics graphics rendering
- Vector graphics rendering
- Supports industry standard graphics APIs for application compatibility

   - OpenGL® ES 1.0 (early version)
   - JSR-184 (early version)
   - SVG 1.1 (including SVG Tiny and SVG Basic subsets)
   - Java 2D
   - Acceleon vector graphics library
   - Acceleon 3D graphics library
   - Gaming middleware

Well Mind2Machine is completely dedicated to java gaming, and we are preparing a plane racing retail game on the basis of the OpenMind engine, so we're hoping to get into Java gaming by the big door. We've already written a 200 pages game design covering every aspect of the game : graphics, physical simulation, fuzzy ai ...

Like puppygames, we can't make a living of java gaming for now and we have to use other sources of revenues, mostly living of small broadcast 3D contracts. But we're convinced Java gaming has a bright future, it's just a matter of time. The question is : will the company manage to reach these blessed times ?

We are currently working on raising public funds in order to be able to spend our full time on Java gaming. Also, we'll soon be sending the game design to producers. We've already been meeting some producers in the early stages of the project : some (those on the PC market) just don't care about Java as long as the game works and is done for a reasonable price, some just don't want to hear about it, because it closes the console market, which is a rapid and reliable source of revenues. Professional game developers and IT directors we've met simply don't beleive in Java because they beleive it a slow language. So I guess the right strategy, like it's been said in this topic, is to show the game first before talking about the technology.

Anyway, if Java closes the console market, the PC market will be quite as big after 2004 according to the studies I've read, so I beleive not going on the console market is not necessary a business suicide.

One thing is sure for me : selling Java games is not going to be easy, and it'll be harder for us to convince the producers than if we had a c++ game. But I just can't stand c++ and I want to design quality games, so for me the path is clear and it's Java.

Alban

Have you tried extending the post date when making a search ? The search is set by default to look only in the posts from the last 7 days, so it is likely your topic won't appear in this delay.

It'd be nice to have a mailing list created for the JoGL project in order to discuss JoGL issues, because there is currently no place were we can discuss JoGL issues.
We just can post to the forum and hope some developper will pass by, or post an issue without getting any answer so far...

Renderware only costs something like 50 000 ¤ per target platform. That is if you want your game to run on XBox and playstation, it will cost you 100 000 ¤.

Alban

Hi,

Codewarior made itself a nice reputation in the world of IDEs, and the latest release, Codewarior V8.0 features Java and c++ support mixed in the same IDE, with code completion for both languages and compatibility with Windows and MacOSX.

see :
http://www.metrowerks.com/MW/Develop/Desktop/Windows/Professional/Default.htm

Has anyone here been working on java code with it yet ? is it any good ? Does it have any flaws ?

So I guess Pepijn will update the licenses for OpenAL and I will include an LWJGL licence into the next release of OpenMind !  

Hi Cas,

I'm not responsible for AL4Java, I've just included the library to OpenMind. From what I know, it was written from scratch, but maybe Pepijn got some inspiration from LWJGL, as we've all been inspired from some source code some day for acheiving a difficult task...and I guess that's what open source is about.

Anyway if it'd be the case, I'd feel really sorry about it. If you find some irregularities about the code, copyright statements and credits, I'm pretty sure we can discuss this with Pepijn.

Alban

Today, we are proud to bring a new release of the OpenMind open source scenegraph for GL4Java featuring first MacOSX support. This new release also brings better compatibility with old graphic adapters, and above all features the first release of AL4Java, a Java binding to the OpenAL cross-platform 3D sound library that was brought by Pepijn Van Eeckhoudt.  

As usual, OpenMind can be downloaded from http://www.mind2machine.com

AL4Java official website can be found at  http://al4java.sourceforge.net

Enjoy !

Alban Cousinié
MIND2MACHINE

Today, we are proud to bring a new release of the OpenMind open source scenegraph for GL4Java featuring first MacOSX support. This new release also brings better compatibility with old graphic adapters, and above all features the first release of AL4Java, a Java binding to the OpenAL cross-platform 3D sound library that was brought by Pepijn Van Eeckhoudt.

As usual, OpenMind can be downloaded from http://www.mind2machine.com

AL4Java official website can be found at  http://al4java.sourceforge.net

Enjoy !

Alban Cousinié
MIND2MACHINE

There are rumors JSR-134 will feature an OpenGL binding, and the post above seems to confirm it.
So there's no point fighting for LWJGL or GL4Java...