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1  Games Center / Contests / Re: Java4K Competition 2015 on: 2015-01-04 06:25:37
Just popped in to see what was going on.  End of J4K wasn't really a surprise, but I miss the competition.  The 4K limit also restricted the amount of time required in development, which was handy as free time was (and is) in short supply. Keeping an eye open on this topic.

Edit: Incidentally, applet key up detection on OS X hasn't worked properly (for me at least) for a couple of years now (JRE 7u71 on MacAir). Effect is that once pressed (key down) keys appear to stick down.  Might have to do turn based game for Applet X-platform, or come up with a UI that doesn't rely on Key Up to stop movement/rotation and then base a game around it.  Still, academic at the moment.
2  Games Center / 4K Game Competition - 2014 / Re: WrappingPaper4k on: 2013-12-03 06:21:19
Good game.  I've only had time to do a couple of levels.  Getting my head round it properly will take a bit longer.  40 levels seems plenty at the moment; I doubt people will play them all when judging, so I'd go with more eye candy.
3  Games Center / Contests / Re: Discuss the future of 4k contest on: 2013-11-23 08:04:57
Is to possible to allow the downloader application to create class loaders, but prevent the loaded Applet from creating one.  I suspect, if it could, it might be able to load a user supplied class instead of a system supplied class, which could be used for privilege escalation.  Ideally I'd like to create a single user class loader before loading the security manager, and then flush out classes cached with it, so as to be able to reuse it, subsequent to the security manager being loaded.  Somewhat handicapped by not knowing what I'm doing  Grin

Edit:  Ok, I can use codebase in the policy file to prevent the Applets creating class loaders.

Edit 2:  Looks like one has to do this:
To unload a class you have to create a custom classloader and load the class using it. Tomcat does it and so does JRun. You can look in Tomcat code for an example.

After you are done with the class you need to release all references to the class as well as to the class loader by reassigning the variables or setting them to null.

Then either wait for System.gc() to unload the class or you call it directly in a loop till no more bytes can be freed. however normally calling it twice does the trick.

Note: You cannot unload a single class. You have to unload the classloader along with it. So obviously System classloader is not the suitable for this task
4  Games Center / Contests / Re: Discuss the future of 4k contest on: 2013-11-22 23:07:26
Well I've hacked together a pack.gz loader, but it does require a temporary file to put the unpacked jar in. Any better ideas?

            URL path = new URL("");
            GZIPInputStream gzistream = new GZIPInputStream(path.openStream());
            FileOutputStream fostream = new FileOutputStream("/User/Java/AppletTest/test/temp.jar");
            Unpacker unpacker = Pack200.newUnpacker();
            JarOutputStream jostream = new JarOutputStream(fostream);
            unpacker.unpack(gzistream, jostream);
            JarFile jar = new JarFile("/User/Java/AppletTest/test/temp.jar");

I've stuffed this in a custom classloader, but need to think about this a bit more.  Probably need a method to set the location of the gzip, before using the classloader.

Security is also a pain, as unless I load all the games in before setting the SecurityManager, I lose access to the files.  Might have to allow network access.

Creating an AppletStub with an isActive() method works fine.
5  Games Center / Contests / Re: Discuss the future of 4k contest on: 2013-11-19 06:40:40
I am new here and my opinion wont weigh as heavily as others, but here it is.

I think the contest should stay as is.  Honestly a contest should be about who has the best stuff.  If source code is provided for each game, then it also qualifies as a learning experience.  I understand the contest may be old and applets aren't people's favorite.  However shouldn't this be done for the community?  The community should still be able to participate and have this fun contest.  There is so much that can be learned from this type of contest that it makes the concept invaluable.

I understand times are changing, but whatever you decided, please don't get rid of the contest all together.


The problem is that unsigned and self-signed applets (and webstart) will no longer work after January 2014. This means none of the java4k games hosted at will work.  The options (as I see it) are:

1. Sign all the entries with a paid for code-signing key
---- This costs money and the owner of the key would have to check each game entry didn't contain malware.
2. Sign all the entries with a self-generated code-signing key and provide a root certificate for users to import.
---- The certificate import process is not user friendly.  It's a bit easier if one only targets IE & Mozilla as it is easy to import certificates into the browser certificate store and java will check those.  Doesn't work on other browsers.  Otherwise it needs to be imported into the java keystore.
---- Importing someone else's root certificate means you are trusting them not to freely distribute code-signing keys based on it, as these could be used to sign malware.
3. Write a downloadable java application (executable jar probably) that displays the entries and dynamically loads them.
---- Downloading the loader is a slight inconvenience.  It doesn't have the immediacy of applets on the webpage.
---- The downloader needs to be very carefully written, so as to run games in the sandbox, rather than with full permissions; it probably also should check the length.  Even so, there is a risk of java bugs allowing sandbox escape, but this is no worse then where we are now. 
4. Use downloadable executable jars
---- Downloading these is a bit tedious.
---- They run with full permissions, running games from new entrants presents a risk.
5. Cancel the competition
---- Could happen if we can't agree Sad

Of these, the downloader option is probably the best option, and might be able to be made to work with the existing games on the java4k site as well.  However, since unsigned applets are now effectively dead, it is probably time to move on and come up with a new competition more relevant to today.

The options here seem to be (sorry if I missed any)

1. Javascript
---- Runs pretty much everywhere, but not really java, although there are similarities (This is a java-gaming site)
---- The 4k limit would have to be applied to the source code, as there is no executable code equivalent.
---- The range of games that could be written with it is likely to be more limited (In my uninformed opinion)
2. HTML5
---- Supports OpenGL ES, so a wider range of gaming possibilities
---- Presumably adds on to Javascript (I haven't used it, so showing ignorance)
---- Again, the question is whether an HTML5 competition is pertinent to a java gaming website.
3. Android
---- Not everyone has an android phone or tablet (e.g. those with iPhones)
---- There is a large range of screen sizes, operating system versions and processor performance
---- We probably need to load entries onto Android Market (Google Play)
---- This is written in java, so provide a good match to java-gaming

We have been unable to reach a consensus on the way forward and as the start of the competition is in a couple of weeks, there isn't really time to come up with a new competition and write a test entry to prove it works in the timescale.  I suspect we will have to proceed as normal and write a downloader application in parallel, so as to provide a workaround come January.
6  Games Center / Contests / Re: Discuss the future of 4k contest on: 2013-11-18 18:53:54
Unsigned Applets are going to stop working completely?!!!  Where did you get that from?

New security requirements for RIAs in 7u51 (January 2014)
Java 7 update 51 (January, 2014) intends to include two security changes designed to enhance authentication and authorization for Rich Internet Applications (Applets and Web Start).

The default security slider is being updated in a way that will block RIAs that do not adhere to these requirements.  Note: this only applies to RIAs, and not to Java on server or desktop applications run outside of a browser.

•You are required to sign all RIAs (Applets and Web Start applications).
•You are required to set the "Permissions" attribute within the Manifest.
•Your application will be affected if it uses Java started through a web browser. Your application will not be affected if it runs anywhere outside of a web browser.
7  Games Center / Contests / Re: Discuss the future of 4k contest on: 2013-11-17 08:20:09
Slightly off the main thrust of this thread, but worth a quick mention as we're close to the start date. The KeyRelease events on OSX java are broken (and have been for the last two releases), which breaks most real-time java games on the Mac. Mouse events are still fine, as is keyboard stuff that doesn't rely on monitoring how long keys are held down. Is multi-platform still a 'key' consideration?  This might be a major influence in my game design this year.
Edit: Applet only problem; not applicable to applications.
8  Games Center / Contests / Re: Discuss the future of 4k contest on: 2013-11-16 06:36:28
I think HTML5 might be an interesting change, although browser support is a bit patchy.  I'm not sure what performance to expect at the moment, although there have been some interesting demos.  Not really relevant to a java gaming site though.

An android competition might be interesting and much more 'now' than applets.  I have a tablet which I could use.  There's a big range of android versions, screen sizes and processor performance, which might prove awkward when judging.  Specifying that it must run on (say) a Samsung Galaxy S4 (or whatever) would help, but would require outlay.  I could do with replacing my phone though, so would consider it.  I haven't looked at distribution, would we need to put entries into the android market?  Overall I think this holds the most promise for a lasting and relevant solution.

Since we don't seem to be heading towards a common agreement, perhaps it would be best to hold java4k as normal this year and accept that the games will be obsolete whenever oracle removes support for unsigned applets.  The risk is that the update that removes the functionality could come within the timeframe of the competition, which would be awkward.
9  Games Center / Contests / Re: Discuss the future of 4k contest on: 2013-10-19 06:22:00
Hm you must be joking if you think anyone sane is going to install a root cert.

Cas Smiley
You are trusting the author of the software whether the certificate is traceable or not.  The only difference is that the author is verified.  If we made a root cert for java4k, but did not distribute the signing key, but instead wrote an upload script that signed the code and included 'Permissions: sandbox' in the manifest, then used the java version parameter to ensure that users with older java installations didn't inadvertently run code that wasn't limited to the sandbox, then we would have a reasonable level of security.  It would be possible for someone to write malware, but unless it escaped the sandbox via a bug (which is a problem already), java4k would be safe.  If someone wrote malware, then uploaded it to java4k, then grabbed the jar and hosted it elsewhere, it would only pose a risk if they also tricked users running old versions of java into installing the java4k root certificate.  If they were going to do that, they could make their own root cert just as easily and trick folks into installing that (with the advantage that they would not have rely on users running old java versions).  Overall the size of the attack surface is quite small.

The only difficulty I see is providing an easy way to install the root cert.  If we limited browsers to IE and Mozilla, it would be easy.  Just click on the .cer and install it in the browser keystone, which I believe is checked for applets and webstart.  However I don't think this works for all browsers, so I suggest providing an executeable jar that installs the certificate.  If we were really clever, the executable jar would check the java version and refuse to install it on old versions of java that don't support the permissions manifest entry.  That reduces the attack vector surface to miniscule levels.  To mount an attack would now require finding an exploit to escape the sandbox on the latest java and remain within the 4k limit, which is harder than just finding an exploit and hosting an unsigned applet (which will still run at present).
10  Games Center / Contests / Re: Discuss the future of 4k contest on: 2013-10-18 06:06:34
I googled around to see what other people are doing.  The zebra folks do a free and a paid version of their product, with only the paid for version having proper traceable code signing.

In the end they went for providing a root certificate that users could download and install to allow the use of a self-signed applet.  Since it is now possible to state that the applet must run in the sandbox with the latest version of java, it would be possible to specify that entrants must include that in their contest entry, which would reduce the risk of rogue code, as sandbox escape exploit code would need to be included. (This would also help with the previously mentioned reputation issue)

There's quite a long thread here:

11  Games Center / Contests / Re: Discuss the future of 4k contest on: 2013-10-08 05:16:18
I just checked last years entry - 49k, which is one of my larger efforts due to being almost totally procedural and scads of comments.  Some of my entries from earlier years were significantly smaller.  It would probably be less than 32k obfuscated.  I'm not sure that I like the idea though.  It doesn't solve the fundamental problem of applet security, unless everyone compiles the applets themselves, which is not an efficient use of peoples time.  I think this approach would work better with javascript.  If push comes to shove, I'd rather everyone submitted an executable jar, although that carries an uncomfortable  security risk.

On the whole I prefer the idea of a loader application.  I wonder whether it's possible to write one as a traceable signed applet. I'm conscious that there is a risk of such an applet being repurposed to load malware, so it would need to be tied to and run any loaded code in the security sandbox.  Perhaps it would be safer (and easier) to supply it as an executable jar, and embed a 4k game browser function within it.

Alternatively we could write an executable jar that installs a root certificate.  Either run keytool which is supplied as part of the JRE, or possibly do it programatically.  Then we submit our unsigned entries and Appel signs them with the key, or the key is made available and we sign them.  I think the former would be safer and could be automated.
12  Games Center / Contests / Re: Discuss the future of 4k contest on: 2013-10-07 19:07:21
Considering my commented source usually comes in at 16k or even more, I suspect that even obfuscating it would result in getting significantly less code under the 4k limit.
13  Games Center / Contests / Re: Discuss the future of 4k contest on: 2013-09-20 18:09:34
Funny, I wrote a code very similar, wich can load a Java4k jar (in pack.gz format) locally
and run it.

the Stub method:

public boolean isActive() {
         return true;
is important, as some games wait for it to become true.

Agreed, I use that to detect when to terminate the applet.  It should return false, when the window containing the applet is being closed.  Ideally this should go false prior to the window being closed  Smiley

I also agree that a security manager would be a good idea.  However it would still be nice to have the option of additional access rights.  I have an idea that's been on the blocks for a while that uses the microphone.  Also 2 years ago I submitted a signed entry that did networking.  Still I'd be perfectly happy to submit a plain sandboxed entry this year.
14  Games Center / Contests / Re: Discuss the future of 4k contest on: 2013-09-17 23:09:50
Looks like self-signing won't work soon.  I wonder whether installing my own self created root cert would fix that.  I'm not sure whether that would work either, since java now phones home to check revocation lists.
Installing your own root cert should fix that problem. Revocation lists aren't an issue (they're a good thing); at worst, if Java insists on having a CRL you need to ensure that all the non-root certificates in the chain include a "CRL Distribution Point" value which is a valid URL to an empty CRL.

Sounds promising.  We could provide a root certificate on and have everyone use a code-signing key derived from it.  People would need to install the cert before playing.  This used to be as easy (on PC) as clicking on a link pointing to the cert, although I haven't checked that this still works in modern browsers.

Another idea is for someone to write a java applet (or application) loader.  If this is written in java, it will need signing with a real code-signing key and would have to be written defensively so as not to get 'repurposed'.  The new codebase manifest attribute would help with that, but it would probably be sensible to call the downloaded applet using a sandboxed thread.
15  Games Center / Contests / Re: Discuss the future of 4k contest on: 2013-09-16 20:10:15
I think we need a manifest with:
Permissions: sandbox

I haven't tried this yet.

Edit:  I added them, but then got a slightly different warning message, when running from local disk (i.e. no webserver).  Looks like running java applets direct from the file system is on its way out too.

Edit: So far I haven't been able to remove the warning even using a webserver. I'm coming to the opinion that you can't remove the warning, but if you don't add the extra manifest entries, you java will refuse to run the applet outright on some future release. Edit: Actually I'm coming to the opinion that unsigned and self-signed won't work at all next release whatever you do.

Edit: Oh and there is a warning on self-signed applications too.  Looks like self-signing won't work soon.  I wonder whether installing my own self created root cert would fix that.  I'm not sure whether that would work either, since java now phones home to check revocation lists.  It *might* work provided security is not set to the highest setting.

Overall:  If you buy a traceable code-signing certificate, you still get a warning the first time you run an applet, but I believe there is still a tick box to suppress it on future use.  Unsigned and Self-signed applets work in this release, but display a warning every time and won't work at all in a future release.  I think this could be the last Java4k competition, as it will just about work this year, but won't work at all next year, unless we go to traceable code signing, or have a custom downloader.
16  Games Center / Contests / Re: Discuss the future of 4k contest on: 2013-09-16 19:53:29
The end of the unsigned applet is nigh.

Ok, it actually wants you to add stuff to the manifest.  That means we will have to have a manifest and it will bulk out the jar considerably.  We'll probably have to submit two jars, one with and one without the manifest.
Note to the Publisher: Security features to prevent unauthorized redistribution of your Java application will cause this application to be blocked in the future. See current Java documentation about Jar Manifest entries for the changes that need to be made.
Note to Users: For any questions, please contact the Publisher who provided you with this application.
17  Games Center / Contests / Re: Discuss the future of 4k contest on: 2013-09-12 05:51:33
javac 6 targeting jsr14 puts the least junk into the class file. Unfortunately javac 7 no longer supports jsr14 as a target, so you need an old compiler.

I don't have good memories of the year we used webstart. If we're not doing applets, I'd rather take a big jump into Android (although I confess that as I don't have experience with it, I don't know how realistic 4k is - does anyone know how big an Android hello world is?)

Thanks for the tip on javac 6 targeting jsr14, which I assume is 1.4.  My main compliant about applets is that currently nearly all of the ones on are not working on OSX, which makes it a PC only contest.  I have a PC, so no problem developing, but at the moment I think applets are even more broken than webstart.  If both are off the table, then it's back to executable jars, which are fine when you know and trust people, but not so good for entries from unknown folks.  I have an Android tablet and could develop for that, but then there's the problem of guessing how much processing power people have available and catering for all the different screen sizes.  Still, it's an option.

Edit: It's just Key_Release that's borked, so I could do an Applet that just relies on the mouse.  For instance ApoHockey still works perfectly well on OSX as it only uses mouse input.
18  Games Center / Contests / Re: Discuss the future of 4k contest on: 2013-09-09 20:04:32
I like java 4k, as the size limits the amount of time I spend on the game (Usually a couple of weekends).  The gradual demise of Applets does however make this more of a by-developers-for-developers format, although I think it was always pretty much that anyway.  More annoying for me this year is the totally broken Key_Release functionality, at least on OSX, which looks like staying broken until Java 8.  So much for run everywhere.  More like run away everywhere.

The LWJGL16k was a nice idea too, although it never really got off the ground. Twice.  Of course, if it ever happens, I have one finished game and one almost finished game on the blocks.  They both use legacy direct mode though.

In terms of compression, Java 5 + Proguard + kzip work pretty well, although you need a utility to convert zip to gzip (strip off the zip header). Edit: Actually I used Java 6 last year, or at least pack/unpack from Java 6.  I might have still been using version 5 javac, since the files were smaller. Yes I did - Java 5 compiler + Java 6 tools.

So where do we go from here.  I don't rightly know.  I've gone right off Applets though.  Even webstart would be better.
19  Games Center / 4K Game Competition - 2013 / Re: website is down on: 2013-08-08 04:35:51
It's all a bit academic to me.  None of the java applets have worked correctly on my mac for about 6 months now due to a java/browser interaction bug that means that java doesn't report any key-releases.  I had a similar problem on my PC and had to revert to an older version of java.  At the moment, it's difficult to see how to write any realtime applet game that actually works.

Question is, whether it will get fixed before this years java4k?  Maybe it'll have to be a point and click or a turn based game.  Or at a minimum something that doesn't need Key-releases.  Come back webstart, all is forgiven.

Thinks: Maybe a pacman clone.  That keeps going in the same direction until another key is pressed.  No need for key release.

Edit: Maybe it'll be fixed for Java 8.  I'm looking at

Edit 2: and while I'm not using linux, there's also this:

Key release just sucks SO badly right now.
20  Game Development / Newbie & Debugging Questions / Re: KeyReleased Bug on: 2013-06-01 08:01:59
Problem also in Firefox

Since Java 1.7.0_21 it is broken in Safari, too. So maybe this is an Jave/Oracle issue.

There's a few threads on stack exchange too, but no full blown hue and cry.  Probably no one writes java applets now?
21  Game Development / Newbie & Debugging Questions / KeyReleased Bug on: 2013-06-01 07:45:42
After the last Java update on OSX (several months ago now), all my keyboard handlers stopped working correctly in applets.  Seems a lack of KeyRelease.

What I've been using for quite a few years in Java4k (Ok, depreciated handler and horrible to read, but it is small)
    /** Process Keyboard and Mouse Events */
    public boolean handleEvent(Event e) {
        switch((|1) {
            case java.awt.Event.KEY_PRESS:
            case java.awt.Event.KEY_ACTION:
                keyboard[e.key] = (;
                return true;
        return false;

Sadly, now the keys now just stick on.  I had a look at other people's applets on Java4k and similar problems all over. So, I thought, it's broken, but another Java release will come along real soon now.  Only it hasn't.  So, do other people have this problem (on OSX) or is it just me.

Edit: This is using latest safari - could be it isn't passing on KeyRelease?
22  Discussions / Miscellaneous Topics / Re: Java 7 Update 21 Security and Application Signing on: 2013-04-18 19:30:31
Sorry, but I didn't check command line.
23  Discussions / Miscellaneous Topics / Re: Java 7 Update 21 Security and Application Signing on: 2013-04-18 19:15:24
I updated my PC, and java just hangs.  Uninstalled it and Java 6 worked Ok.  Installed Java 7 SDK including JRE and again nothing works.  Admittedly my PC is full of stuff so there's probably an incompatability somewhere.  Overall it's been a terrible day w.r.t java.  It's enough to make me turn to Flash  persecutioncomplex

Edit: Reverted to Java 7 Update 17:
24  Discussions / Miscellaneous Topics / Re: Java 7 Update 21 Security and Application Signing on: 2013-04-18 05:59:29
KEY_RELEASE: It's a bug.  First seen on Firefox.  Now also on Safari.  I installed a Safari update at the same time as the Java update and that is probably the cause of the lack of KEY_RELEASE events.  It isn't clear how to work around this.

Also look down at comment 13, which fingers the latest version of Safari as similarly bugged.
25  Discussions / Miscellaneous Topics / Re: Java 7 Update 21 Security and Application Signing on: 2013-04-18 04:30:06
The new update appears to break the keyboard routine I've used for this years (and previous) Java4k games (at least on OSX).  It looks like I'm not detecting Key Up events any more.  Maybe I'll go for a reboot, just in case my computer is confused.

Incidentally the unsigned applet warning box still comes up and now has red text warning that the applet is a security risk.

Edit: None of my recent Java4k games works on OSX now (Falcon4k, Assassins4k, Mage Wars and Die Z are all broken).  I guess I'll have to upgrade my PC later and check that too.  Bother - that was a really minimal key handler.  Can I be bothered to update the older programs?  Might do Mage Wars and Die Z as they were both built on my current Java4k tool chain.  Not sure whether to do the others. Bother Bother and bother.

I haven't checked my really old entries Frag4k and Speed4k, but they used a different keyboard handler, so might still work.

Edit2: None (that is no ones, not just mine) of the old webstart stuff loads anymore on my Mac, possibly needs an update to the jnlp files.  So in summary, none of my stuff on Java4k works anymore, at least on OSX.  I think I'll contain my excitement and check whether it works on the PC this evening. 
26  Discussions / Miscellaneous Topics / Java 7 Update 21 Security and Application Signing on: 2013-04-18 04:12:59
Interesting development on the security front:

Changes to Java Control Panel's Security Settings
In this release, low and custom settings are removed from the Java Control Panel(JCP)'s Security Slider.

Depending on the security level set in the Java Control Panel and the user's version of the JRE, self-signed or unsigned applications might not be allowed to run. The default setting of High permits all but local applets to run on a secure JRE. If the user is running an insecure JRE, only applications that are signed with a certificate issued by a recognized certificate authority are allowed to run.

For more information, see the Security section of the Java Control Panel documentation.

APPLET and APPLICATION seem to be used somewhat interchangeably in the above.  I'm assuming this applies to both, and that it means from now on, an old JRE will only execute applications/applets that are signed with a traceable certificate.  Considering the number of updates recently and that JREs now have a built in expiry date (I assume this does something - obviously not checked), maybe it's time to buy a proper certificate.  Can't really justify the expense though.  Probably I'll just carry on as normal and insist on the latest JRE.  Incidentally, there's now little point in writing code for an older JRE, so as to get a larger user base (unless signing with a traceable cert).

Ho Hum.  Lets go install and take a look.
27  Discussions / Miscellaneous Topics / Re: modem/router longevity, recommendations on: 2013-04-11 19:14:58
I've killed 2 Linksys (one wired, one wireless), and a Belkin (wireless) so far and am now working on destroying a Netgear N600.  To be fair to the Belkin, I think the problem is that there is so much contention on 2.4GHz here, it couldn't cope with all the retrys and went into a sulk.  5GHz is much better, but not all my kit supports it.  Fortunately I've got wired connections too.

28  Games Center / 4K Game Competition - 2013 / Re: Your top 3 of the most unappreciated games on: 2013-03-25 18:45:12
I liked Toras' Blocks.
29  Games Center / 4K Game Competition - 2013 / Re: Judging panel results. on: 2013-03-25 18:41:42
Just back from a long weekend.  Congrats to Morre.

Thanks to the Judges for reviewing the games.

Thinking about next year now Smiley
30  Game Development / Newbie & Debugging Questions / Re: Unexpected answer returned by Math.sin on: 2013-03-22 07:10:51
You could round off the result to however many decimal places you desire.


double result = (int)(1.0e6*sin(angle))/1.0e6
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SF/X Libraries
by philfrei
2017-03-02 08:44:05 is not responsible for the content posted by its members, including references to external websites, and other references that may or may not have a relation with our primarily gaming and game production oriented community. inquiries and complaints can be sent via email to the info‑account of the company managing the website of java‑
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