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1  Discussions / General Discussions / Re: Custom Java WebStart and Applet Loading Screens *finally!* on: 2010-07-13 20:50:02
Java applets and JWS applications will always have their place IMHO.  While it's true that the advent of HTML5 with its Canvas and WebGL capabilities means that many of the things that were once only possible with Flash or Java will now be possible without any browser plug-in, there are still going to be situations where you need a fully-fledged programming language like Java inside the browser.  Using pure JavaScript is simply not an option if you have libraries of code in any other language (Java, C++ etc.) that you want to use in a client-side application/applet.  Yes, you will be able to do a lot with HTML5 but re-using existing code is not one of them.  Besides, JavaScript is not exactly the "best" programming language out there now is it?  And it doesn't equip the developer with the enormous range of "free" functionality that comes with the Java Platform.

Java applets and JWS applications may not be the ideal deployment solution for mainstream consumer-oriented software and content but they will still be the most appropriate technologies in many future scenarios.
2  Discussions / General Discussions / Re: Custom Java WebStart and Applet Loading Screens *finally!* on: 2010-07-13 20:20:28
...bit late to make much of a difference...

Can I ask what you meant by this?  Too late for what?

Thanks,

-Chagma
3  Discussions / General Discussions / Re: Cortado works! on: 2010-04-23 10:02:11
The question is what is the license?  The JavaFX licenese prohibits separate distribution of any of its components.
4  Discussions / General Discussions / Re: Cortado works! on: 2010-04-14 01:13:54
That looks interesting.  Some recent activity but no releases yet.
5  Discussions / General Discussions / Re: Cortado works! on: 2010-03-22 15:36:25
I have reservations about Xuggler namely:

• They say themselves that video playback is experimental at best and not to be used in production.
• They say themselves that video/audio synch doesn't work on Linux and they have no solution.
• It has a massive footprint.
 
 
 
 
6  Game Development / Newbie & Debugging Questions / Re: UARG! JMF video playback ... does it work in any way!? on: 2010-03-22 15:33:47
I have reservations about Xuggler namely:

  • They say themselves that video playback is experimental at best and not to be used in production.
  • They say themselves that video/audio synch doesn't work on Linux and they have no solution.
  • It has a massive footprint.  Did your tests include running it in the context of a browser?
7  Discussions / General Discussions / Re: Cortado works! on: 2010-02-26 09:34:12
Does "my own frameworks" include LWJGL?  If you can get something that synchronises Theora video and audio and outputs the video as buffered images or such then I'll be able to do the rest for my applet.  I am at the point where I need to make a big decision: whether to go with the technology I have developed or abandon it in favour of something else entirely.  It all comes down to being able to play back Theora in an applet.  If it can't be done then it's back to the drawing board for me.
8  Discussions / General Discussions / Re: Cortado works! on: 2010-02-26 03:00:55
Has anyone made any progress on this, i.e. getting synchronized video and audio playback from Java?  I found Xuggler but it makes use of native libraries and has synchronization issues on Linux.  I need a pure Java implementation that just works!

-Chagma
9  Game Development / Newbie & Debugging Questions / Re: Choosing between JOGL and LWJGL - help requested! on: 2010-02-17 09:28:06
This is proving to be a very difficult choice indeed!  There are pros and ons on both sides of the equation.  I guess I am concerned about the long term future of JOGL but that may be only a result of FUD as you say.  On the contrary, if the LWJGL team are not prepared to acknowledge bugs/faults in their own product and instead shift blame to external factors then that's a real worry too.

In the end I want something which just works (at least 90% of them time!), is supported, has a reasonable long term future and has the functionality I need it to have.  There doesn't seem to be anything in it on the functionality side so I guess it's going to come down to which library makes the most sensible and safe business decision.

That part is not so obvious, at least not yet.
10  Game Development / Newbie & Debugging Questions / Re: Choosing between JOGL and LWJGL - help requested! on: 2010-02-17 09:09:30
OK, how many people are maintaining LWJGL for comparison?
11  Game Development / Newbie & Debugging Questions / Re: Choosing between JOGL and LWJGL - help requested! on: 2010-02-16 17:57:34
Right, so Display is their OpenGL root container (the equivalent of GLCanvas in JOGL)?  I see that setParent() takes a Canvas object which is AWT not Swing which may be problematic.

Also, does LWJGL support multisampling?  I know JOGL does.
12  Game Development / Newbie & Debugging Questions / Re: Choosing between JOGL and LWJGL - help requested! on: 2010-02-16 17:41:48
OK, that's a good summary - thanks.

One thing I do need to know re LWJGL is can its "canvas" (or equivalent container, whatever it's called) be used in a Swing program, perhaps inside a JPanel or inside a generic JComponent?  There doesn't need to be any fancy OpenGL/Swing integration, just the need for resizing and integration with the Swing rendering system.  I know this can be done with JOGL but I am not sure about LWJGL.
13  Game Development / Newbie & Debugging Questions / Re: Choosing between JOGL and LWJGL - help requested! on: 2010-02-16 16:59:40
Thanks to everyone who has commented on this.

Perhaps I emphasised the need for good font rendering too much as this is only one of the requirements we have.  It's obviously a complex problem and it appears that some of the more advanced techniques would be equally applicable to either library.

I am interested in how JOGL and LWJGL stack up against each other in all areas.  Are there any major pros and cons (apart from font rendering) that have not been touched on that I should be aware of?
14  Java Game APIs & Engines / JOGL Development / Re: JOGL Java2D/OpenGL bridge - does it actually work? on: 2010-02-16 16:55:27
it works quite fine when I don't try to force the Java2D OpenGL pipeline

Thanks for the info but I don't really know what you mean by this.  Could you please elaborate?

And how do you get it to work?  Even in my simplest program using a GLJPanel, if I set sun.java2d.opengl=true then I just end up with a blank white window.  If I don't set that property then the performance with multisampling is terrible!
15  Game Development / Newbie & Debugging Questions / Choosing between JOGL and LWJGL - help requested! on: 2010-02-16 09:47:48
Let me start by saying that I am aware that A vs. B style threads are usually frowned upon but I feel this is the most suitable means for me to gain the knowledge I require.

We are about to embark on a large project using Java and OpenGL and I would appreciate some assistance on choosing between what appear to be the two main alternative libraries namely JOGL and LWJGL.

I am no expert on either of these but the main differences appear to be that JOGL has a larger footprint (which is undesirable but not necessarily a problem) and seems to have better in-built text rendering support (through the TextRenderer class) although it lacks any support for audio.  From comments on these and other forums it appears that LWJGL may be better supported and perhaps have a more promising longer term outlook.  Integration with either Swing and/or Java2D seems limited or non-existent in both libraries despite JOGL touting the Java2D/JOGL interoperability bridge (as this is profoundly broken).

Our requirements are basically for full access to OpenGL functionality from Java and this includes a need for good (excellent?) quality text rendering and effects.  The text will need to be scalable a-la vector graphics and be very legible at smaller font sizes.  The deployment method will be Java applets loaded using JNLP (yes true applets in a browser, not apps) so the library must work well in that environment.  Performance is critical of course but I am guess there's probably not much to distinguish the two libraries on that basis.

So, what are your thoughts on the two libraries and which do you feel would be the best fit for our requirements?  Are there perhaps other alternatives I am yet to encounter?
16  Java Game APIs & Engines / JOGL Development / Re: JOGL Java2D/OpenGL bridge - does it actually work? on: 2010-02-16 07:40:28
If I say Java2D/JOGL interoperability i mean:
1. Enable swing opengl rendering with sun.java2d.opengl=true property
2. and use GLJPanel which will render directly into swings gl backbuffer.
(now you can do everything you like with swing or gl)

problem is 1.) is already unstable. Try it.

Thanks for the info.  Do I need (1) to do (2)?

And thanks for confirming that (1) is unstable.  Is anything being done to address this?  Is it a Java issue or a JOGL issue?

17  Java Game APIs & Engines / JOGL Development / Re: JOGL Java2D/OpenGL bridge - does it actually work? on: 2010-02-15 22:20:54
Just to be clear, are you referring to the Java2D/JOGL interoperability or JOGL itself when you say "don't use it" and that it's unstable?

Also, there are other reasons why we would like to fully investigate the viability of Java2D/JOGL interoperability so I would appreciate someone close to the JOGL project commenting on its status.
18  Java Game APIs & Engines / JOGL Development / Re: JOGL Java2D/OpenGL bridge - does it actually work? on: 2010-02-15 21:58:18
Yes, Sun ditched JOGL but surely it has just as much support now as say LWJGL

The main reason I am interested in JOGL and the Java2D/JOGL interoperability is because our game relies heavily on text and we need the text to be clear and crisp.  LWJGL is an alternative but doesn't offer much (anything?) in the way of good text rendering.
19  Java Game APIs & Engines / JOGL Development / Re: JOGL Java2D/OpenGL bridge - does it actually work? on: 2010-02-15 21:13:27
In case there is any confusion, I am referring to what is more commonly known as the "Java2D/JOGL interoperability" technology.
20  Java Game APIs & Engines / JOGL Development / JOGL Java2D/OpenGL bridge - does it actually work? on: 2010-02-15 20:57:03
I ask because I have never actually seen it working and both of the JOGL demos that use this technology bring up a blank white window and nothing else when I run them on 3 separate machines under various flavours of Windows.

So, is this just an experimental technology or is there a way to get it to work?  We are very interested in this feature and hope that it can be made to work.
21  Game Development / Newbie & Debugging Questions / Re: Shaders written in GLSL? on: 2010-02-15 11:20:02
Yes, they work.

Cas Smiley

I have to say I am impressed with the speed and quality of responses in this forum!

So are they implemented in basically the same way as with LWJGL?
22  Game Development / Newbie & Debugging Questions / Re: Shaders written in GLSL? on: 2010-02-15 11:11:07
OK, thanks for the info.  I also cannot get any demo of the Java2D/OpenGL pipeline to work on a couple of machines.

Anyway, my original question stands: can GLSL shaders be used with JOGL?  We have established that it can be done with LWJGL but I'd like to know the situation with JOGL too.
23  Game Development / Newbie & Debugging Questions / Re: Shaders written in GLSL? on: 2010-02-15 10:28:35
Oh, can you be more specific?  What do you mean by "not to work reliably"?
24  Game Development / Newbie & Debugging Questions / Re: Shaders written in GLSL? on: 2010-02-15 09:54:02
Wow, thanks for the quick response!

Do you know if such a thing is also possible in JOGL?  I am probably going to have to use JOGL because I need my game to be able to run inside a JPanel and I don't think LWJGL can do that (?).
25  Game Development / Newbie & Debugging Questions / Shaders written in GLSL? on: 2010-02-15 09:37:04
Is it possible with either JOGL or LWGL to use shaders written in the OpenGL shading language GLSL?  If not, how do you write shaders for use in Java/OpenGL software?
26  Java Game APIs & Engines / JOGL Development / Re: Problem with Java2D/JOGL interoperability on: 2009-09-20 13:04:25
Well I checked out that website but I couldn't find anything relevant to my question.

Do you have a more specific link?

Thanks,

Jarrick
27  Java Game APIs & Engines / JOGL Development / Mixing OpenGL & Java2D rendering on the same surface on: 2009-09-10 05:40:49
I'd like to be able to mix OpenGL rendering and Java2D rendering on the one surface.  I have found that I can override the paintComponent() method of GLJPanel and achieve what I want but it seems that GLJPanel is much slower to resize than a GLCanvas.  Unfortunately I have been unable to override the paint() method of GLCanvas and do some Java2D rendering on it as the Java2D stuff appears only fleetingly and then disappers.

Is there a better way to do what I am trying to do?

Why is GLJPanel so much slower to resize than GLCanvas?

Thanks,

Jarrick Chagma
28  Java Game APIs & Engines / JOGL Development / Problem with Java2D/JOGL interoperability on: 2009-09-09 17:44:17
I am interested in the interoperability between Java2D and JOGL in JOGL 2 so I have tried to run the appropriate demo on the demos page but with no luck.  All I get is an empty window and empty Java console both of which actually have the screen's contents as their backgrounds.

Is there a problem with this demo and/or is there a way for me to get it to run?  I am trying it on Vista 32-bit and a nVidia FX3600 GPU using Java 6 Update 16.

Thanks,

Jarrick Chagma
29  Java Game APIs & Engines / JOGL Development / Can JOGL extension be downloaded lazily? on: 2009-08-12 16:39:28
I want to be able to download the JOGL extension lazily but I don't know if this is possible given that the jogl-all-awt.jnlp file doesn't seem to specify extension parts to reference in my applet's own JNLP.

Is it possible to not download all of JOGL until I want it and put that download under control of the applet?  If so, how?

Thanks,

Jarrick Chagma
30  Java Game APIs & Engines / JOGL Development / Re: Problems building JOGL 2.x demos from source on: 2009-08-12 16:03:11
OK, so what's the trick to building the demos successfully?  How do I resolve the compilation errors I am getting?

Thanks,

Jarrick Chagma
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